Joe Lieberman will be re-elected

[Proud2BAmurkin]

And when he is I hope we are glad that he defeated the rePUKE because even though he's a rePUKE on the war and a few other things he's a Democrat on other issues and will much better than the rePUKE running against him.

I hope we can handle a few moderates in the party without being crybabies about it. If Lieberman wins his race, that means there aren't enough liberal Democrats to win that seat.

The same is true nationally so any Democrat who is nominated gets my vote and should get the vote of anyone here against McLame or Frist. If you take your ball and go home get ready for another eight years of this shit.

The Nader idiots took the position Gore was too moderate.

[Kagemusha]

1. Not to criticize your fervent beliefs about moderates but...

Uh, where is Lieberman a moderate, anyway?

My understanding is that his positions on Iraq and Iran are at the extreme right end of Republican thought and are far more right-wing than a great many Republicans.

[Erika]

4. Lieberman is a bushlite on all war issues

He certainly isn't a democrat and he certainly isn't a moderate.

[Greeby]

2. moderates? Excuse me

I don't consider supporting the invasion of Iraq a moderate position. I don't consider supporting a potential attack on Iran a moderate position. I don't consider it moderate to be telling women who've been raped to go walk to another hospital if they are refused treatment. :grr:

I expect no better from Sessions, or Santorum, or Brownback. But not from someone who has (D -Connecticut) after his name.

[Erika]

6. I forgot about him telling raped women to walk to another

hospital for rape treatment and pregnancy prevention if the hospital took a moral position against their right not to bear a rapist's child.

[newsguyatl]

3. lieberman's HARDLY a moderate

hillary, obama, feinstein -- they're moderates.

lieberman's extremely conservative.

[Yollam]

5. Lieberman is not a moderate, he is a right-winger.

And Lieberman being on the ticket hurt Gore more than the "Nader idiots" ever did.


Being on the far right of the democratic party makes a person a right-winger, not a moderate, since it is a fundamentally moderate party with no left wing to speak of.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yollam]

33. I don't call rigght-wingers like Lieberman "idiots"...

... and I would ask you the same courtesy.

There is nothing even remotely "liberal" about Joe Lieberman, and I am not "lying". Didn't YOUR mama tell you it was impolite to wantonly fling insults at people for no reason?

Only an AMERICAN would call a right-winger like Lieberman a liberal or a moderate (The two words are synonymous anyway). In ANY Western European democracy, the policies supported by so-called "centrists" in the US would be considered right-wing, and the policies pushed by republicans would be considered ultra-right wing or fascist. Just because there is a near-vacuum in the United States where there should be a left-wing political movement does not mean I should redefine the truth to suit the US lopsided reality.

In other words, there is a center in the US, made up people who run the gamut from Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold to Hillary Clinton, who is on the borderline of center and right-wing. From my vantage point, Lieberman and his unwavering support for both this illegitimate president and his fraudulent war, as well as his unqualified support of any action undertaken by the state of Israel make him a right-winger. And the vast mejority of the GOP, basically anyone to the right of McCain, is an unabashed fascist.

I REFUSE to define the likes of Lieberman, or the social safety net destruction and war-mongering he represents as "centrist" or "moderate". The fact that there is no active political left in the US does not change the truth. Dismantling the New Deal is RIGHT WING. Attacking weak countries without provocation is RIGHT WING. Voting to destroy the separation of church and state is RIGHT WING. PERIOD.

He has a better record on issues of taxation, but continues to support the bloated military-industrial complex.

As for Gore and Bush, it's obvious they are not the same, but since Gore campaigned as a right-leaning dem, with an even more right-leaning running mate, and Bush masqueraded as a moderate, it's not surprising that a lot of people were deceived into thinking they were almost the same. But the proof was in the pudding on that. But Gore opposed the Iraq war. There is no doubt in my mind that had Lieberman been president, he would have murdered Iraq just as surely as Bush did. He is friendly with the same neocons and AIPAC people that concocted the war for Bush in the first place.

You can go around calling leftists "idiots" all you want. It's easy and risk-free for you since leftist have no real power or real political movement in the US. But until there is a real and vital political left in the US, there will be no genuine change to the gaping income gaps between rich and poor, or the fact that our economy is based on bloated military spending, and the intimidation and aggression against weaker states that that affords. I'd love it if the democratic party could be that left is movement, but as it stands, it is owned part and parcel by the corporations and has stood for the status quo for 30 years now, as the GOP has consistently pushed things further and further right.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

66. I think you're looking at the world through rose-tinted spectacles

when you say that "liberal" and "moderate" are synonymous.

I suspect that, like a lot of people, you're using "moderate" to mean "holds views which do not differ immensely from mine", rather than "holds views which do not differ greatly from the average of the group in question".

Lieberman is more left-wing than more or less any member of the Republican party.

As the two parties have more-or-less equal support in America, neither of them has any more claim than the other to the word "moderate"; a moderate is *by definition* someone whose views lie at the centre of the political spectrum of the environment they function in, which Liebermann is.

If you "refuse to define" him as centrist or moderate, then that's your right (although it's one I'd strongly advocate not using, because it will only lead to needless confusion), but if you're not doing so then every time you use one of those words you need to add the proviso "by which I mean X, rather than what it is usually used to mean", and it doesn't provide you with a platform from which to disagree people who are using the words in the usual (i.e. correct) way.

"Left wing" and "right wing" are directions, not positions - it makes perfect sense to say "X is more left wing than Y", but "X is right wing" is just a shorthand for "X is more right wing than average", which Liebermann isn't.

It's true than in as much as comparison between the politics of different countries is possible, the whole political spectrum is further to the right than in most first-world nations, but the issues in different countries are so different as to make such a comparison very suspect, and anyhow words like "moderate" tend to imply "with reference to the politics of country X".

[RDU Socialist]

71. well we happen to be in AMERICA

in any western European country they wouldn't elect Joe Lieberman because while they may be incredibly liberal with economics, they're still fervently anti-Semitic (France's Le Pen, Britain's Nick Griffin, the recent rampage of anti-Semitism in Italy, need I go on?). In AMERICA (where we happen to live) he's a moderate to liberal. He is pro choice (and he did vote against Alito), supports the idea of universal healthcare (he even had his own thing for children called Medikids or something to insure every child up to I believe 18).

Yeah, Ted Kennedy is a real centrist. It seems to me that anyone to the right of Trotsky and Lenin would be moderate after reading your rant.

When it comes to race and religion in this country, we're much more liberal than western European democracies (again, Le Pen's popular movement which involves repatriating Muslims, the growing in popularity British National Party whose platform includes repatriation of blacks and complete denial of the Holocaust, and again Italy's problem with Jews).

[Yollam]

74. Like I said, I can't go "by US standards"

That's like saying Hermann Göering was a moderate by Nazi German standards. The US is a part of the world, not an island apart from it. It's about time we actually looked at the rest of the world and took some cues from it RE things that work, and acknowledged our own failures.

What I wrote was not a rant. You mention "anyone to the right of Trotsky and Lenin". Hello. They represent the far left, just as Bush or Bill Buckley represent the far right. Why is it that right-wing extremism is okay, but somehow left extremism is beyond the pale?. Please explain to me any position that Ted Kennedy has taken that was not moderate? Has he proposed a government takeover of industry? A reorganization of our manufacturing bas into worker communes? Government limits on maximum income? Merely being steadfastly opposed to an ultra-right-wing agenda does not make someone a left-winger. It makes them principled.

[RDU Socialist]

75. government control over everything isn't leftism

it's totalitarianism.

Government limits on maximum income are unconstitutional, and are not leftist or even fair, and propositions for maximum earnings are used by either wealthy elites to get the poor people to think "eh they may be rich, but they're fighting for me" or people who have economic penis envy.

[Yollam]

78. Corporate control of everything as in the US model is totalitarianism too.

And I'm still waiting to hear of something Ted Kennedy ever did that was "far left"...

[RDU Socialist]

80. i never claimed he was far left

i said he was not a centrist, you're the idiot who came up with that teddy kennedy being a centrist comrade.

[Yollam]

82. He is a centrist.

The center being the point between democratic socialism and unfettered corporate-crony capitalism.

And you can go talk to someone else if you don't know how to be civil.

[countmyvote4real]

7. Lieberman IS the Repuke (sic) in DEM clothing & DLC funds.

There is no victory if he is reelected.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. No victory for rePUKES when Chaffee, Snow, elected?

yeah right

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. 2/3 of the delegates to the CT Democratic convention chose a 'Repuke? '

Whouldn't these people know Lieberman better than anyone?

[LincolnMcGrath]

32. Who would be more politically savvy?

A longtime active DUer?

or

A longtime active county Democrat member?

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Probably the longtime active county Democrat member

[LincolnMcGrath]

45. pfft

First let me explain that query. By politically savvy, I mean caught up on the latest news/views of the day.

Does that change your answer?

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. No

These people are the ones who have been working on the grass-roots level electing Democrats to office in CT. Mr. Lamont and Senator Lieberman were given a chance to contrast their positions at the convention. The delegates chose Lieberman by an overwhelming majority after hearing from both candidates.

[LincolnMcGrath]

77. Are you involved at the local level?

[RDU Socialist]

79. hmmm... people who believe 9/11 was a controlled demolition

along with some who believe the 2004 tsunami was done by Bush, katrina was done by Bush through some weather lazer, and somehow the earthquake in Bam Iran was done by Bush... or people who realize there is an al Qaeda, they do want to kill innocent people, tsunamis, hurricanes, and earthquakes actually do happen and have done so for decades before Bush was even born.

i'm going with the county democrat member.

[Placebo]

81. County Democrat!

:patriot:

[LincolnMcGrath]

88. No fair if you are both a DUer and an Elected County Official

[LincolnMcGrath]

87. Nice slam on your fellow DUers pal.

P.S. Clearly you haven't met many county Democrat members.

[coalition_unwilling]

65. It was not a "secret ballot"!!! Word from CT is that, had the

ballot been secret, Lamont might have scored a vote of Eugene McCarthy-esque (NH '68) proportions.

[WildClarySage]

8. I agree, but for a different reason. That (D) after his name means

one more seat we desperately need to keep in order to gain a senate majority. I'd campaign for his democratic opponent if he had one, but if he's the candidate, then he has my blessing. Just not MY vote, since I'm not his constituent.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

10. Agree. If D's are the majority he'll be pressured to vote WITH US

Just like the liberal rePUKES almost always vote with Idiot.

[CTLawGuy]

16. he does have one

www.nedlamont.com

[JerseygirlCT]

63. He does have a Dem. opponent. There will be a primary in

August. His name is Ned Lamont.

[burythehatchet]

9. Nader idiot checking in

hoping to lower the level of discourse a bit further.

[Downtown Hound]

12. Better Lieberman than a repuke

for no other reason than it deprives the GOP of just a little bit of more power. But don't expect me to celebrate the fact that it's Lieberman. I can't for the life of me condemn George Bush for his damnable war and let people like Joe off of the hook. He bears responsibility for it, as do some, but not all, of other Democrats.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

14. Best case would be he loses and his D opponent wins it all BUT

worst case is rePUKE wins it all.

[The Stranger]

29. Actually, I'd bet some Pukes have been more Progressive than Leibercon.

[Downtown Hound]

41. That very well might be true

But the problem is that when the GOP has a majority, the more moderate and progressive voices within the party get drowned out. If we had a Democratic majority, the progressives would have a much bigger say overall, even if we had to deal with a few limp dicks like Lieberman.

[Bluebear]

13. A *moderate*?

:rofl:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. I'll be voting against the war and the warmongers.

I don't care which party they belong to.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onehandle]

18. Lieberman got an 80% Liberal rating from the ADA.

Not 100% like Senator Kerry for example, but hardly conservative or even moderate. Maybe moderate for a Dem overall.

I want him gone, but I'd rather have him than a repuke with a 5% rating.

http://www.adaction.org/2005SenateVRweb.htm

[Old and In the Way]

19. I think Joe will become an Independent.

I think his #1 principle is - Whatever is best for Joe. He's a centrist only if you define it in terms of the Republican landscape. Joe has become the designated "good" Democrat for the corporate media. He gets face time in exchange for a reliable performance that criticizes Democrats and supports Bush Republicanism.

[charlie]

20. I like these spirited defenses

of a guy who, at the first whiff of a challenge, mused about doing what the "nader idiots" did. That Joe, such a stellar Democrat he'll run against the party nominee to prove he's a Democrat worth keeping around.

[salin]

43. that is the thing that slays me...

I am all for the primary process - and in the end, will support the dem over the repub. However, I witnessed the lack of conviction locally of two elected dems one who was beaten in the dem primary the other who had 'retired' - who in the general election threw their support to the republicans OVER the democrats who had won in the democratic party primary. Their support included attending GOP fundraisers and writing letters to the editor on behalf of the republican candidates. Why? Because these dems thought that the dems who won the primary based on democratic party voters - were "too liberal". Where was their "party loyalty?" Where was their concern for losing the majority on the county council (which flipped to republican control).

So while I would root for Joe over any republican (except Lowell Wiecker, who isn't running and is no longer a republican) in the Connecticut General election if Joe wins the primary. Unless I am incorrect there is still unanswered speculation that if Joe were not to win the Democratic primary, that he would run as an independent - and not care so much whether the democrats ended up with control of the Senate or not. Now, I will admit I am not positive that the speculation is grounded. If it is not grounded, I appologize to the Senator. If it is grounded, it strikes me as one side wanting to force a loyalty oath on one part of the party, while also wanting their candidate only to win - and party potentially be darned if their candidate doesn't win the right to run as the party candidate.

The threats of defections, and damage of said defections - come from both sides of the party. Those who choose to make it sound like just centrists, or just the more left leaning - are full of it.

[Appalachian_American]

21. Is there an advantage for him, personally, to being a Democrat

in Connecticut? Could he switch parties and win in Connecticut?

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. A recent poll showed he would win if he ras as and independent

But he is still running for the Democratic nomination.

[rniel]

24. He's a democrat??

This is news to me.

If you vote with republicans on every single issue but call yourself a democrat. Are you really a democrat?

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. 2/3 of the delegates to the CT Democratic convention would disagree

with you.

[rpgamerd00d]

36. Please don't lie. Joe votes with Dems 83% of the time.

We don't like him, but saying he votes with the Repubs 100% of the time is just a pure lie.

[martymar64]

68. He only votes with Rethugs on important things

Like the War
Like limiting women's reproductive choices
Like Bankruptcy
Like Alito

[RDU Socialist]

72. he voted to end the filibuster

he voted against Alito. get your facts right.

[kentuck]

25. I'll bet he looks at his job from a different perspective if he wins...

I think this has scared the Holy shit out of him.

[beltanefauve]

85. One can only hope!

"Stick with Joe" read the captions on the balloons at the convention. Something odd about that.

[Beelzebud]

26. Moderate means throw your own party under the bus,

while shilling for a mass murderer like Bush?

Wow. Our country truely has gone right-wing.

[The Stranger]

27. Fuck him -- he is a bloodlusting Neocon far more than a Democrat,

and on the issues that matter he fucks his party every time.

Time to give back to Joe what he has been giving us.

[Jack Rabbit]

28. Lieberman has few saving graces

However, one is that he will caucus with the Democrats vote with his party on the continuing resolution in January. The Democrats will make gains in the Senate, but still need 51 votes to make Teddy Kennedy chairman of the Judiciary Committee, gain subpoena power and investigate the crimes and incompetence of the Bush regime -- investigations that we can realistically hope will lead to multiple impeachments.

I, for one, am offended at Senator Lieberman's unwaivering, unapologetic and utterly idiotic support for the Bush regime's war policy in Iraq. I, for one, hope that he is replaced in the Senate by Ned Lamont. But, I know that is wishful thinking.

[derby378]

30. It's time to take out the trash...

If Lieberman will not help the Democrats, then he's got to go.

[oc2002]

34. Good Grief, to think this guy was Al Gore's VP choice....Oi, Vai!

realy, hope he turns Independent. or whatever.

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. No kidding! I still can't believe I fell for his bullshit and voted for

him. :( It makes me ill to think he could have been our VP.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Lieberman's a MODERATE??? ROFL.....Ed Lamont will WIN.

Joe Lieberman is a MODERATE? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Lieberman is finished. He's no Democrat.

on edit...MORE REPUKES SUPPORT LIEBERMAN than do Dems. THAT is sad.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rpgamerd00d]

40. Actually, his real name is Edward Ned Lamont.

He just goes by Ned.

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Ah...him too! jackass.

:hi:

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. More Democrats support Leiberman than Lamont

Leiberman recieved the support of 2/3 of the delegates to the CT Democratic convention. Twice as many as Lamont.

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Lamont isn't in this picture. When a poll was done on who supported

LIEberman, MORE REPUKES supported him than Democrats did.

[Theres-a]

51. He has a primary coming

We'll see.

[in_cog_ni_to]

53. I hope he loses. n/t

[Theres-a]

54. Alot of folks

In Connecticut are keeping their fingers crossed for Ned.Hell, people all over the country are supporting him.It would be a fine day indeed to give old Joe his walking papers.

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. Yet a majority of Democats in CT support Leiberman

so Lieberman wins the primary.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. Name-calling on DU is against the rules Would YOU like to delete your post

or would you like me to alert on you? Your choice. I'll be back later to see what your decision is. How old are you? 2?

[tabasco]

44. Yeah, you're right. Still don't have to like Joe.

It isn't saying much when you say "at least he's better than a republican."

But Joe has a good record on environmental issues, which puts him head and shoulders above the typical rape-the-earth republican.

[rpgamerd00d]

50. And until his rape-victim-hospital fiasco, was good on social issues

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. That fiasco proves just how far RIGHT he has gone. That statement is

just sick, cold and disgusting.

[WI_DEM]

57. He will be re-elected and he will vote for Harry Reid as Majority Leader

[Beacho]

58. "Moderate" My achin' ass

That's just a code word for a conservative enabler who obeys their corporate masters.

Too call Lieberman a moderate is an insult to true moderates. That word has been abused to the point of meaninglessness, much like the term liberal.

The Black Commentator Explains ALL

[dysfunctional press]

60. if it takes another 8 years of repuke rape for the people to "get it"...

then so be it.

or 12 years,
or 16...however long it takes, it will have to happen at some point.

i will NOT betray my liberal ideals at the ballot box EVER AGAIN.
it made me sick to have to vote for kerry, and NO DLC candidate will ever again get my vote.

i'd rather see revolution in the streets than support full-fledged fascism in the government.

[RagAss]

61. Gore's bad move(Jomentum) gave us 8 years of hell.....

[RagAss]

62. Jerkmentum

[coalition_unwilling]

64. Nader's argument only gained traction b/c Gore failed the

first law of American electoral politics, i.e., first lock down your base and then move to the center. Instead, Gore took his base for granted and tacked to the center-right immediately.

Stop blaming Nader for Gore's loss in 2000. It's unseemly and untrue.

[question everything]

67. He is pro-choice, which cannot be said about PA's Casey (nt)

[Solon]

69. You forget about his comment on rape victims having to...

go hospital shopping so they don't end up at a Catholic Hospital.

[question everything]

84. They certainly should not

if they will not be able to get the emergency pill that needs to be taken within 24 hours (I think) after unprotected sex

I think that one episode of Boston Legal touched on this.

[BlooInBloo]

70. Well, I'm glad that's settled.

[Orangepeel]

73. Ya think?

of course he'll be re-elected.

Good for Lamont for running. There's no reason incumbants should get a free ride, especially if there is a substantial portion of the constituency that doesn't feel its collective view is being represented. But Joe will decisively win the primary and then (thankfully) be re-elected.

[Initech]

76. There really need to be term limits in the senate

That way we dont get keep getting repukes like Santorum and Cornyn and closet repukes like Lieberman and McCain reelected. :grr:

[mdmc]

83. This Nader voter will give a kick and a "R" for Joementum!

Go Joe!

[Nutmegger]

86. That's nice. Meanwhile I'll participate in the democratic primary process

My question to you is: why do you hate Amurika?

[puerco-bellies]

89. Right wing tool does not = Moderate

IMHO