Are you tired of the often defeatist attitude expressed on DU?

[...of J.Temperance]

Are you tired of the often defeatist attitude expressed on DU?

The most recent examples of the creeping defeatism that's being expressed on Democratic Underground are:

"This is the death of the Democratic Party..."

"If Democrats don't do such and such...will you leave the Democratic Party?"

"Such and such didn't vote the way that I wanted them to vote...so I can't support them if they even think of standing in 2008"

What IS this? Junior is on between 38%-42% in the opinion polls, the Abramoff scandal is a 99% Repuke scandal...we have them on the defensive, which is why Junior's babbling away each day on the TV STILL having to defend his decision to go into Iraq...which when the history books are written, Iraq will go down as one of the worst thought-out and pointless military decisions ever...

And yet why must we have this often defeatist attitude...why can't people just say "Hey, we're doing pretty good!"

Yes of course, we can't win an election by just saying "Iraq...and the GOP are corrupt", we still have to formulate our own agenda and our own alternative policies to what the GOP are offering...and then take that to the people.

But all of this about the Democratic Party being dead, and if Democrats don't do something will you leave the party et al.

Can we look at the big picture...can we do our best to stay positive about things?


:popcorn:

[jsamuel]

1. Yes, the defeatist attitudes only help the GOP.

[MADem]

19. On occasion, I sometimes wonder if the defeatist seeds are not being

PLANTED by the GOP, frankly. I cannot fathom people who claim to be Democrats or progressives spending time on a board that has a mission to forward those political policies, but spending all of their energy threatening to leave (see ya!!), naysaying and doom-n-glooming.

I have the "lead, follow, or get out of the way" attitude. Don't throw shit on the path that others are trying to trod--get out the shovel and clean it up, or turn around and go the other way!!!

[...of J.Temperance]

25. I often think what you've just expressed...

I've also noticed that the worse things are going for Junior and the Repukes...the more the defeatist attitudes come along.

[redqueen]

63. Yeah, funny how that's the case, huh?

Intriguing...

[...of J.Temperance]

88. Yes

It is intriguing...

[jilln]

20. Sounds a little like "Those of you who oppose this war are giving comfort

to our enemies"

I appreciate everyone expressing what they actually feel. Sometimes the same person can be negative about something and then positive, or vice versa. I don't see how it serves any interest to pretend you think things are going well. Perhaps in their negativity they see something the positive attitudes don't.

[jsamuel]

24. I am one of the people who complains about Dems all the time!

There is a difference between bashing and criticising... I have done the latter. The defeatists saying that the Democratic Party is DEAD if they don't filibuster is more of the first thing. It serves no purpose. I understand they are frustrated, as we all are, but there are ways to deal with that. Like calling their senators and asking them to filibuster or many other things...

Just declaring the Democratic Party dead only helps the GOP...

[MADem]

36. Disagreement with the direction of policy is FINE, what I take issue with

is the blanket statements, the "I won't vote for ANY Democrat who (whatever the single issue is).." the "they are ALL (fill in the blank with some excoriating descriptor)" and the "If X doesn't happen, I am taking MY BALL and going home." And then, when X does not happen, they are still here, bitching about something else. Take the damn ball, and go home, fachrissake!!!

Instead of wailing, I would like to see more proactive solutions proposed, realistic ones, too, not pipe dreams--and a bit more UNDERSTANDING, along with a mature, fact-based approach, about the role of constituencies. It isn't being PHONY or FAKE when a politician moves their stance towards the people who vote for them, it is PRACTICAL. Idealists only get elected when their constituency has a preponderance of fellow idealists on the voting rolls. All politics IS local.

What a candidate says in a local election, or a state contest, can be very different than what they might say when running on a national platform. That is just POLITICS, and that is not gonna change, no matter how much some demand lockstep, absolute, my way or the highway, ideological purity. If you like the general cut of their jib, ya gotta understand that life does not begin or end on single issues...and some, not most, just a few, don't seem to get that. They can't appreciate the larger picture or the longer view.

If I can get 70 to 80 percent of MY agenda out of a candidate, I can live with that. It is a helluva lot better than getting nothing at all....and that's where I sit nowadays with the GOP in charge.

[fooj]

2. Hell yes! I'm not giving up...

Ever!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2364833

Peace.

[stopbush]

3. Threads like this make me want to give up and just shoot

myself. }(

[AZBlue]

4. Fuck Yes! (nt)

[Richardo]

5. My answer: "Yes."

I'll just hang up and listen. :popcorn:

[Generator]

6. No I'm sick of being fucked over by politicans that claim to represent

me but only represent themselves. If they have a D behind their name it doesn't make it any better.

[jsamuel]

10. There are ways to deal with that without declaring the Democratic party a

failure...

[FSogol]

7. Polls like this will cause the end of DU!

;-)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. I opted for the first choice

just because I don't like using profanity. :)

[Kipling]

9. This poll is ultimately doomed to failure. Just give up.

[RandomKoolzip]

11. Do you mean the REALISTIC defeatism or the HYPERBOLIC defeatism?

There's two seperate kinds: The first is a feeling of genuine disapoointment in the face of real defeat, a realization that the left will never ever be as powerful as it was before, and a realization that we, as leftists, need to adapt to this new reality.

The other is a hysterical assumption that, because of the last few years of more repressive measures being made into law and the creeping power of the right, that the Democratic party is worthless and needs to be abandoned in favor of some hopless, hapless third party, which will only dig us further into a hole.

The first one is reasonable and rare, while the second is idiotic and all too common.

[...of J.Temperance]

23. The hyperbolic defeatism...is more what I'm talking about n/t

[meganmonkey]

12. Being positive and creating change begins with Truth

something often lacking here.

We need to recognize the reality of what the Dem politicians are. Pretending they are something they are not will get us nowhere.

Reality is neither positive or negative, it simply is what it is. What we choose to do with it makes it positive or negative.

on edit: For the record, I did not vote in your poll because your choices don't make any sense to me and your concepts are not clearly defined

[...of J.Temperance]

13. I voted for the "FUCK YES" one...as a party we've got a lot going for us

Our Democratic Senator's have done pretty darn well, they've managed to get some important victories recently, by stopping Junior's dangerous agenda on a variety of issues.

We need to understand how difficult a job our Senators have and some people need to realize that in todays Washington DC climate it's not easy for our people...and we need to show our Democratic Senators and Representatives that we fully stand behind them.

Don't forget, it's not just Junior and the Repukes that our Democrats have to fight each day...but it's also the un-friendly and biased media that our Democrats have to fight each day.

[Ksec]

14. Im not defeatist, Im realist

If its bad, its bad. If its good , its good.

I dont pretend something thats bad is good. And vice versa.

[European Socialist]

15. It's hard to get exited about the Democrats when they can't raise......

an organized stink about stolen elections and tapped phones.

[LittleClarkie]

21. So you do what YOU can do

and raise a disorganized stink.

That said, we did manage an organized stink re: Social Security.

[European Socialist]

33. A broken clock is right twice a day. The other is ANWR.

[LittleClarkie]

50. Point's still the same. You ARE the Party

YOU organize resistance.

Think ants. And rubber tree plants.

Oops.

[European Socialist]

55. I bet 90% of Elected Democrats feel Bush should be impeached..

They are there to lead--not to wait and play it safe.

[LittleClarkie]

66. Fine. But don't YOU wait for THEM either

I just want to make sure you're not sitting on your ass waiting to be led. You're not, are you?

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

16. I'm too fed up to reply to your question. I mean, WHY BOTHER?

:evilgrin:

[depakid]

17. I'm tired of the often defeatist attitude in the Democratic Party

DU is only a reflection of what the party "leadership" has been doing for the last 5 years.

LOSING again and again, without even putting up a fight.

What the hell do you want from people when they have to see that all the time?

Polyanna?

[tatertop]

49. Bad news pours in for us every day. This is the real world.

Bush is about to stack the supreme court and
the Democrats will not try too hard to stop him.
Bush is about to invade Iran, unimpeded.
Bush will continue cutting essential social programs
while he funnels money to his friends and throws mountains of
cash into the pit of war.
Bush is about to make Fundamentalism the state sanctioned religion.
Bush is eliminating retirement as a viable goal for many Americans.
This list goes on and on and on and on and on.....


Our great victory: We THINK we MIGHT have evidence that
Cheney might not brush between every meal!
(We got them now, by golly YEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!)

[Emit]

18. If one says the defeatist attitudes only help the GOP

Isn't that like saying the anti-war movement only helps the 'terra-ists'? :shrug:

I'm so confused.

[MADem]

39. Huh? Most Democrats OPPOSE the war, so that does not make sense

The growing antiwar movement, from Sheehan to Murtha, with all of the nuance in between and around the margins, helps the Democrats...

[Emit]

61. You misunderstood my point

actually, it was just a question, as in food for thought.

The repugs say that we antiwar Democrats (of which I am one) aide the terrorists with our efforts. I do not agree with this notion.

It was noted previously on this thread that the defeatists attitudes of Dems only helps the GOP. I was making an analogy here.

I guess I was just trying to reason out, "Do defeatist attitudes on the Dems part really aide the GOP?" Or, do some defeatist attitudes help sharpen the debate and point out weakness that need to be remedied? I really don't know.

Don't read too much into this. I really haven't been following these "defeatist posts" that people are referring to here, and really don't know the crux of the poll even.

I happen to come to DU not to engage in defeatist posts, but to gain info and find a means of fighting back. If others want to post their feelings of despair and defeat, that's their business. Everyone handles stress differently. But to assume that expressing defeat 'helps the GOP,' well, I'm not sure I can buy that one.

[redqueen]

70. It's completely different.

For that analogy to work, the antiwar crowd would have to say things like "there's no hope for the US, our leaders are all traitors so there's no hope in trying to persuade them, the people leading the anti-war movement are useless and just as bad as the warmongers".

The anti-war people aren't unconstructively bashing their own kind, as these people are.

[Emit]

79. Well

I'm not sure I follow you.

But, you have to consider my analogy from the point that we are all Americans, and the pro-war Americans are saying to the anti-war Americans, "Your're hurting our cause and aiding the enemy with your defeatist attitude."

Either way, whether it's a good analogy or not, that type of argument (defeatism is aiding the enemy) is hard to rationalize, IMHO.

[redqueen]

80. Yeah, I don't really see how this helps them much... UNLESS

we're talking about the "I'm leaving the party! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" posts/threads, which I think this thread is meant to include.

[Mabus]

22. Hell yes I'm tired of it.

Here is most of what I tried to post on a thread started by LoZoccolo that was locked. It seems just as appropriate here.

There are a number of other threads of people threatening to leave the Democratic Party if there is no fillibuster on Alito which is just what the RW wants. It is disheartening that there are so many here who want to act like Ted Stevens and abandon ship when we are making progress with Dean at the DNC helm. Because there are those of us who are willing to fight (rather than run) the DNC is funding the state and local parties. There is a difference between the parties and if there are some who aren't willing to help continue making the difference then I hope they don't let the door hit them in their collective asses on the way out. Good riddance.

[NMDemDist2]

26. BS poll IMO n/t

[...of J.Temperance]

35. Would you elaborate?...Perhaps you're one of the ones who voted "No"

Perhaps you're one of the ones who likes the defeatist attitudes, eh?

On Edit: As you can see, it's a pretty popular poll, a lot of votes in a short space of time.

[NMDemDist2]

57. I didn't vote at all and I don't see that many "defeatist" posts on DU

which is why I called BS.

I know who most of the sad sacks are and I avoid their posts.

Problem solved.

I think most of DU is a very active and upbeat place full of folks who give a chit and take to the streets and call their congresscritters and write LTTEs

Like any large community there are some who cry wolf and play like Chicken Little, but I don't give the time of day.

JMHO :shrug:

[redqueen]

71. There are many.

I hardly ever come in here anymore, and this week in the very few times I've ventured in, I've noticed more than a few of these not critiquing, but defeatist posts/threads.

[NMDemDist2]

73. I don't see many here......

Discussion Topic Author Last updated date Replies Votes
Good Huffington Post article; "Bloggers in the Wilderness" Batgirl Thu Jan-12-06 03:58 PM

Reid Statment on Conclusion of Alito testimony: Skinner Admin Thu Jan-12-06 03:58 PM

Hey Freepers!!! Ask yourself... (graphic) Dawgs Thu Jan-12-06 03:58 PM 6 4

Official Alito Hearing Thread – Day 4 – Thread 8 Viva_La_Revol... Thu Jan-12-06 03:58 PM

OMFG: Ms. Alito and the Swift Boat Liars???? deminks Thu Jan-12-06 03:58 PM 4 0

Any Chance that Chief Justice Roberts might be a surprise? WI_DEM Thu Jan-12-06 03:58 PM 12

'The Pres. is going out of his way to notify the Congress" says ed rodeodance Thu Jan-12-06

How do we get Gore back in the game? smartvoter Thu Jan-12-06 03:57 PM 5 0

Randi Rhodes BEAT Hannity!!!! Rainscents Thu Jan-12-06 03:57 PM 17 0

Official Alito Hearing Thread sasha031 Thu Jan-12-06 03:57 PM 106 1

In Regard to tears....I am my husband's wife. MrsGrumpy Thu Jan-12-06 03:57 PM

Ed Meese an apologist for Bush spying on Americans liveoaktx Thu Jan-12-06 03:56 PM 6

Is it legal to pass out Bibles in front of a school? Quixote1818 Thu Jan-12-06

I'm sick and tired of how unsympathetic DU'ers are to Martha Alito. King Coal Thu

"the church of the Republican Party" rurallib Thu Jan-12-06 03:56 PM 7 0

So Many Are Mocking/Attacking Mrs. Alito Why? OPERATIONMIND... Thu Jan-12-06

What kind of sick fuck would do something like this? Fridays Child Thu Jan-12-06 03:55 PM 13

My fears about Alito's appointment have subsided. Just Me Thu Jan-12-06 03:55 PM

Women....Welcome to Poland --The Effects of the Anti-Abortion Law Gloria Thu Jan-12-06 03:55 PM

It just hit me... misanthrope Thu Jan-12-06 03:55 PM 18 5

Don't worry, DU we're coming... tocqueville Thu Jan-12-06 03:54 PM 0 0

Crowds pack Out of Iraq meetings across nation bigtree Thu Jan-12-06 03:54 PM 3 0

Our gas prices are going up 10 cents a day (Northern VA) FSogol Thu Jan-12-06 03:54 PM 8

So Americablog got Wes Clark's phone records - question..... elfin Thu Jan-12-06 03:54 PM 0

[redqueen]

74. That's nice.

But proves nothing.

Some of these defeatist comments are made in posts remember?

[NMDemDist2]

75. just saying,.,,,,

I use DU "cafeteria style"

I take what I want and leave the rest, I can terrify myself in my own mind without any help from a message board :rofl:

but it never makes me stay home from the polls or canvassing

[Burning Water]

27. I guess it depends on

what the definition of 'defeatist' is. If it's "I'm giving up on the Democratic party and will never vote for Senator X again", the yes, I'm tired of it. Who ARE you going to vote for? Ralph Nader?

If on the other hand it's looking at some of the tactics that have been tried by various 'leaders' in the party and stating the obvious fact that Senator X is a fool for thinking such-and-such will work, or that the Dems aren't in trouble and * is on subjects where he is not, or that we should expect the Republicans to adopt our policies in order to be bipartisan, etc, then no I'm not tired of it. I am just such a 'defeatist', in that I think when it has been demonstrated that something doesn't work, we should try another tack.

So sue me.:)

[Walt Starr]

28. Some of us are just tired of experieincing battered spouse syndrome

and are simply going to put a stop to the abuse.

[F.Gordon]

43. Pushed ya over the edge, eh?

Hi Walt... looks like you've been Alito-ized.

I can think of 100 things to be outraged about.. but Alito aint one of em. The repukes pulled the same dog and pony show with Thomas. But ya know what? It backfired for them. The Thomas hearings converted a lot of voters in this country.

Sorry to see ya go deep on this one. Know I can't say anything to bring you back..

Peace
:hippie:

[Yollam]

29. You can call it that if you want...

But I don't see it as anything but realism since representative democracy in this country has been dead for some time now. I don't feel it's negative. I see no reason to be sad that the 'great experiment' has failed. I'm looking forward to finding out what replaces it when the present fascist state falls. Fascist states always collapse, eventually.

Please don't call people negative just because they don't operate under the illusion that democracy still exists in this country.

[KarenS]

30. What exactly does "staying positive" do??

There are times to be angry & upset,,,, Things just don't magically get better because we will them to,,,,

[rucky]

37. angry isn't defeatist

being angry and not looking for a way to fix it is.

[MADem]

41. Well said! n/t

[KarenS]

51. Exactly,,,, Anger gives people strength,,,, Rage is defeatist,,,,,

But looking through rose-colored glasses solves nothing.

[rucky]

31. There's no point in taking this poll. It won't change anybody.

[redqueen]

72. LOVE the Eeyore! Perfect!

:rofl:

[F.Gordon]

32. Yes..... and..... No

I miss the good ol' days when DU only had Green vs Dem parties. Starting with the time before the Iraq Woor Vote... seems to always be some "flashpoint" that grabs some DUers and sucks em in. I understand the frustration.... don't necessarily agree with it... but I understand it.

I've learned to wrap a bit of duct tape around my knee so it doesn't start jerking too wildly. ;)

I'm fairly positive bout' things. Wish things would progress faster... but I can see the "big picture". I guess being positive bout things is a fault of mine.
:shrug:

[MrBenchley]

34. Fuck yes....

Especially when its being expressed by people who seem to have only a tenuous grasp of reality, complete ignorance of the real world, and a bellyful of burning hate for the Democratic party.

[...of J.Temperance]

38. Hello MrB...

Good comments, I appreciate them :)

[MrBenchley]

64. Thanks...it's a great thread...

[sweetheart]

40. virgil, discussion is engagement

Discussion is listening, and feeling really how one feels, whatever that is,
and the challenge is to be ruthless to the truth. If the truth, is that one
feels defeated, then express that, and the other writers disempower it, or vice
versa, express the bright one, and then we are all saints. Each post is an elevator.

Your choice. Life does not fit in to simple boxes of positive negative, but a complex
mixture of political voices that are cloistered by corporate media, ones that disagree
and may not have an issue about negatives or positives, its life dammit.

Some times you get fired, your girlfriend leaves you, your favorite grandmother dies
and no amount of drip drip drip obscures 3 more years of intolerable incompetence,
absolutely fucking intolerable incompetence and criminality.

It takes being fucking goddam angry to want to impeach this motherfucker. I want his
head on a stake by the tower of london with all the others. Where is Cromwell when you
need him! aahhhh!!! not that! But in all honestly, a benign dictatorship that
modernized the constitution would be a blessing to the US, not one that shreds it.

So if everyone wants to just be "positive", then what a load.

[kevsand]

42. We're doomed! Doomed, I tell you!

Until DU starts mandating paper ballots for this and all of its other polls (with an indepedent exit poll conducted by, say, Kos), we will never win another poll on DU. Mark my words...

[...of J.Temperance]

44. Your comments made me laugh :)

We need more humor :)

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

45. I'd like to talk about it....

I DON'T feel we are doing pretty well. I listen to our reps and candidates, but they never seem to answer my questions. I see a lot of promises made--charges, indictments, impeachments etc.--that never pan out. Everyone here--I've been reading here for over a year--is always gloating 'he's on his last legs!', 'they're going down!', 'this is the end' with little thought to what that really might mean--OR what it says to our enemies.

Everyone on the liberal blogs I read, and sites I visit--including DU--are continually saying 'Bush is upset', 'Bush is on the run', 'Bush is drinking because he's failed' etc. However, that's just nonsense--he's not bothered in the least--I don't even think he notices most of the stuff others feel he's so affected by; he's totally unflapable. I think he's very satisfied with the course he's on because he feels it's the right course. I don't know how to change that--but at least we could be honest about it. Maybe WE want to see him failing--but that's just wishful thinking on our part. If we want to be more positive, we need to put the focus on something else.


I get discouraged, but I'm a newbie, so I have to be SO careful what I say here--if our party was REALLY doing well we could say ANYTHING--and the devil take the hindmost. We'd stand up proudly, quietly state our position and just KNOW it was the right thing. We'd appear mature and grown-up--and capable of real leadership. Others would see that and they'd respond to it.

We need to BUILD our party on a platform of strength--we sure don't look strong when we scream 'FREEPER!' at the first differing word from somebody else. The Dems need to figure out how to LEAD these people--not run a secret club with special decoder rings.

P.S. Before you flame me into a pile of ashes, would you at least THINK about what I've said?

[crispini]

67. If you are frustrated,

why not get involved with party building on a local level? Forgive me if you already are, but you say you are a newbie, so I am offering this recommendation.

What the Democratic party needs, plain and simple, is for all of the people who are capable of it, to stand up on their hind legs and get involved with their local party. Become precinct chairs. Buy a Democracy bond and donate monthly to the DNC, your state party, and your local party. Organize voter registration drives, block walks, and get out the vote.

I find that although I am not particularly thrilled with our Democratic leadership at a national level, getting out there and taking concrete action -- even if it's something as dull as sitting in a committee meeting-- is very fulfilling.

We can only take back our democracy one person at a time. If we want leaders who will stand up and fight for us we need to find them today at a local level and groom them for tomorrow.

Washington? Meh. Think global, act local.

[warrens]

46. It's so frickin naive

Do these nimrods think Bush is going to send a black female lesbian vegan member of the Socialist Workers Party to the Supreme Court. If they looked at the resumes of the OTHER people on the short list, they'd be appalled at the naked right-wing thuggishness.

I'm not nuts about Alito, but like Roberts, he is still to the reasonable end of things compared to Scalia or Thomas. I wish we could vote him down, but he ain't worth a filibuster, unless you think the next one is going to be better. Which is highly doubtful.

[depakid]

53. Naive? LOL

I don't think you've read the opinions- or understand the SLIGHEST thing about law or jurisprudence, or wouldn't have made that statement.

[Generic Other]

47. You've been here since August and you are already tired?

I try and channel my frustration on the real problem--fascists who have taken over my country.

[William769]

48. Well my take is that there are alot of people that hate themselves

So of course they hate life & everything in it. Then there are those that need some attention & this is the only way they can get it. Frankly if you don't like the Democratic party & what our leaders are doing, you are free to leave at anytime. Just remember one thing when you have no majority in any part of the Government it's not going to be a walk in the park.

[seabeyond]

52. i do more battle with fellow dems attacking dems, than any repug

attacking dems. ya..... i am fuckin tired of it. i think it is like a little kid throwing a trantrum. in adult world things hardly ever go exactly as we want it to, no way it can seeing how everyone wants it to go different ways......... but hpefully as adult you learn how to live in that life with progressive momentum moving us forward torwards success. not a stamping of the feet and i am not going to play anymore

the worst, dems do nothing

i have watched dems fight harder for over a year and that comment pisses me off faster than any

[Rowdyboy]

54. HELL YES! They sound like a bunch of whiny middle-schoolers.....

If you want to leave, leave. Just quit posturing with all the threats. Their presence is not required-the party will survive jquite well without. Most of the people bitching the loudest probably voted for Nader in 2000 and are a major part of the reason we find ourselves in this mess.

[DoYouEverWonder]

56. Make that a double fuck yes

for me.

They are a distraction and a waste of time.

There is a time and a place for criticizing each other and the middle of a crisis is not one of them.

[mmonk]

58. The only defeatists are those surrendering the fight

that we have elected. Only the elected who are giving up the cause are bringing defeat. Not us who had rather fight but recognize some of those elected will not.

[applegrove]

59. Yes - it helps the GOP as it is meant too. But it is normal. We can

only take so much. Then apathy sets in for a bit. So time to give the boards a break and plant a garden, mentor a kid, do some volunteer work. So that we save our strength for the election.

[redqueen]

60. Yes, YES, and HELL YES!

Can we please learn from France's experience? And not repeat that mistake?

Pretty please?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. Some People Just Like Hearing Themselves Talk I Think. No Defeatism Here

though. I'm with ya 100%.

[kath]

65. I'm sick to fokkin death of the defeatist, spineless Dems in Congress.

Only a very small number of 'em have a spine.

[Yollam]

68. Thank You!

Why blame DUers, many of whom have worked their asses off to get these people elected, only to be stabbed in the back again and again by the pink tutus?

Yeah, Graham and Alito piss me off, but Biden pisses me off even more, because he is SUPPOSED TO BE A DEMOCRAT!

[kath]

77. Gack, don't even get me started on Biden -

I'll never forgive him for giving us Clarence Thomas.

[meisje]

69. This is the Depression Underground

[justabob]

76. What is "defeatist"?

Are defeatists the ones saying the party (and its leaders) are not adequately fulfilling its role as opposition, and that this Nation deserves better... the ones saying we must filibuster, the ones who say we must fight or else? Or are defeatists the ones saying that we should continue to sit on our hands and wait for that moment when we are gonna get 'em so bad they won't know what hit 'em.... keeping the powder dry to take on the NEXT big fight? Who is who?

[hundred6]

78. oh yeah...

hell yes im tired of it. i dont even bother checking here most of the time. i spend more time on right-wing messeage boards. and by the way, they do check in here and cut'n'paste the negativedefeatist comments to their boards and then all make fun of you and gloat. they love it.

[...of J.Temperance]

81. Yes, they also gloated when my good friend tx...they're VICIOUS FREAKS!!

[Swamp Rat]

82. Many of us on the Gulf Coast who've felt the brunt of it haven't given up.

What's your excuse? :D

[...of J.Temperance]

83. I'm glad that you posted Mr. Swamp Rat :) n/t

[MrSlayer]

84. I don't know if it's defeatist or simply being realistic.

It's hard not to feel that all is lost when nothing sticks to these bastards. If a Democrat President had done even one of these treasonous things he would have been kicked out of office three years ago yet the Neo-Cons can commit crime after crime with absolute impunity. It's disheartening. They have the media, the voting machines, the vote counters and all three branches of government. Sometimes I think the reality of the situation is that we are done, they won the game and we are doomed to one party rule and outright fascism. I'm of the mind that our very last hope is the election in November. If they can win/steal it then it's game set and match. Their ultimate goal is one party rule and to collect enough state houses and governorships to be able to amend the constitution at will. If things stick to the pattern this can happen by 2009.

Our problem is we simply will not fight the way they fight, which is to win by any means necessary. They stay on message and present a unified front while our guys bumble around and undercut each other. They have a well oiled propaganda machine while nobody knows what the hell we stand for because we don't have a unified message and the media parrots the RW talking points about us. For example, Howard Dean tells the truth and calls the neo-cons out and then we have Senators who turn around and say he doesn't speak for them. What the fuck is that? It's fucking horseshit. How often do you see the Pukes ripping their own Chairman? Never.

I say fuck integrity, fuck honor, and fuck honesty. We can't rely on that to win because the other side does not play fair and the sheeple are far too eager to believe the lies. They do not limit themselves. They don't care about anything except killing us, literally killing us and they've been setting this up for 30 years. We seem to keep thinking that there is room for everyone, including an opposition party. They do not and they make no illusions about it. If you want to beat these guys you have to play their game and not put yourself above their tactics. If you don't get down and dirty you put yourself at a disadvantage.

To beat the enemy you must become the enemy and if people don't have the stomach for that I fear all is lost. It might be too late as it is, we've waited too long without really responding. We've allowed them to label us as weak sissys, indecisive wishy washy punks and traitors because we never fight back and respond in kind. Half the country believes those things to be true. That's reality not defeatism.

I'm not giving up yet despite the long odds. We have one last chance, one last fight to save the country. What are we going to do with it? We better get our shit together in a hurry.

[...of J.Temperance]

85. MrSlayer For President 2008 :) n/t (Warner or Clark for your Veep)

[MrSlayer]

86. Heh. I wish.

I'd show these guys what a street fight is all about.

[WLKjr]

87. I am sick of the whining. It's time to kick some GOP ass

What happended to the Democrats. I am a Dem because I fight for what I know to be right fair for others. Does the current leadership even know that people want to see the Dems start fighting for them like we once did?

[pinto]

89. Locking

Maybe this would have been better off in a different forum. Discussion here seems to have become more about personalities than any particular issue. Thanks.