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Three BIG Questions Regarding The Truthout Rove Indictment Article

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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:54 AM
Original message
Three BIG Questions Regarding The Truthout Rove Indictment Article
Edited on Sun May-14-06 12:21 PM by BeatleBoot
1) Why did Mr. Fitzgerald give Rove 24 hours to get his shit together?

2) Its been 24 hours, did Rove get his shit together?

3) What does "getting one's shit together" in this context actually mean?


Discuss....



On edit: Just so everyone is on the same page, this post isn't meant to be critical of the article. I think Truthout scooped everyone. Just wondering what it means.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. in my experience, the Government only counts business days
so if they notified him Friday, then the earliest that we would hear would be Tuesday, that's
my best guess.
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kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Another question
Why would Fitz spend 15 hours with Rove's attorneys at their office? 15 hours?
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DUgosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Fifteen hours
Was hardly enough time for Fritz to enjoy the groveling.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It serems that 15 hours was spread over 2 or 3 days.
That's certainly a lot of time, but not unheard of.
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haab Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. The Indictment is 15 hours long....
Longer than the indictment against Libby for sure...
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Good Question
He wouldn't be there unless it was important.

For the record, I am siding with Leopold and William Pitt.

I think Truthout scooped everyone.

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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is an indictment, not an arrest.
The gummit don't work on weekends. Unless it is a warrant to arrest Rove, expect nothing til tomorrow.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. OK...Now you are gonna get it....
....Several posters tend to finish their post with a line that says "discuss"....Can you give me the slightest hint of what else you think we will do with it???Eat the post,give it away,or use it to decorate our homes???This little habit reminds me of irritating high school quizzes that order compliance....A post is a request,not your allowance to demand attention-"discuss" is an order,which is NEVER polite in our society...and no more appropriate than ending a post with a command to "sit, "stay" or "roll over"....

Discuss!!!
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Love it !!!!
:rofl:

I was going to lift from Mike Meyers and say, "talk amongst yourselves"...
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. It's cool that you have a sense of humor...
...just a small kink of mine...I've sat on this post a long time thinking it would look too much like an attack...thanks for the open mind.Regards,Cat.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Absolutely!
Life's too short to not have a sense of humor.

Besides, I'll keep my nastiness for the pukes!!



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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I take the 'discuss' at the end to indicate "GO!"
As in at the start of the race - everyone is bursting at the seams and waiting for the "go" signal.

It is an energy-booster for some. Not for you. But for some.

:-)
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Snarf!
:rofl:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. first, they work on their own timetable....
Second if, as has been reported (someone posted link to the source we tend to discount last night that "documents" the following) that Attorney General Gonzales was also at the Grand Jury to ask final questions before officially notifying the WH (as apparently was done with Libby), the time frame fits. Apparently, there was a week between the AG notification and the announcement of the indictment of Libby, so this timeframe may not be unusual at all.


I don't want to become entangled in a dramatic pissing match as to the reliability of Wayne Madsen (the source of the above, that was posted last night Let it suffice to say I have doubts about him as well, but he may well mix accurate info with dysinfo....Nor do I want to enter into the major flamewars over whether or not Truthout's Jason Leopold will be vindicated (but, I tend to think he will). I'm content to wait and see.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I agree with you.
No flame war intended at all.

I think truthout got the scoop.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. No, I didn't think you had that intention at all...
My comment was a more generic statement--that agree with me or not, I don't plan to be drawn into the high pitched drama back and forth that seems to have taken over the forums this weekend. Why, for the life of me, we have to eat our own, I'll never know. :shrug:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. You forgot: What shit did he have to get together?
or would that be "which shit"?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. His shit: Cancel AEI speech and Resign White House position.
He had an AEI speech on Monday morning. Maybe he'll show up with a new topic, "The Criminalization of American Politics".

Also - Jason Leopold published last week the fact that Rove had told the Preznit that he would resign if he was indicted.

More shit, anyone?
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. About the "15 hours"....
IMO...

if it was in fact 15 hours, and not, say 5, I would guess that one hour at the most was spent reviewing the indictment, anywhere from 12 to 13.5 hours was then spent discussing a possible plea bargain, which evidently did not result in any agreement.

Then, Mr. Fitzgerald informed Rove's attorneys that turdblossom had 24 hours (which means a deadline of Monday or Tuesday, Govt. time) to either accept Fitzgerald's final plea offer or the indictment would be finalized.
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kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Some good ideas.
Fitz wants Cheney, and if 15 hours were used up, they could have been talking about Rove providing Fitz what he needs on Cheney, though Rove would never turn, IMHO. If he did, his political career would be over.
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. "unknown...[if] Fitzgerald charged...a more serious obstruction of justice
charge."

From Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators By Jason Leopold, Saturday 13 May 2006 (emphasis mine)
Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove.

During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning.

Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, did not return a call for comment. Sources said Fitzgerald was in Washington, DC, Friday and met with Luskin for about 15 hours to go over the charges against Rove, which include perjury and lying to investigators about how and when Rove discovered that Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert CIA operative and whether he shared that information with reporters, sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said.

It was still unknown Saturday whether Fitzgerald charged Rove with a more serious obstruction of justice charge. Sources close to the case said Friday that it appeared very likely that an obstruction charge against Rove would be included with charges of perjury and lying to investigators.
...

The grand jury hearing evidence in the Plame Wilson case met Friday on other matters while Fitzgerald spent the entire day at Luskin's office. The meeting was a closely guarded secret and seems to have taken place without the knowledge of the media...


Alternative to inferring and speculating, respectively, that a) 12 to 13.5 hours of plea bargain "evidently did not result in any agreement" and b) "it appeared very likely that an obstruction charge against Rove would be included"...

...in a context of information bits from the report:
1) 15 hours interface between Luskin and Fitzgerald
2) at a meeting that was "a closely guarded secret"..."without the knowledge of the media."
3) explicit specification only of charges of perjury and lying to investigators
4) noteworthy absence of a more-serious charge of obstruction of justice...

...might it be possible that some agreement was worked out between Luskin and Fitzgerald, wherein the more-serious charge of obstruction of justice would not be included in an indictment of Rove in exchange for the latter's cooperation with Fitzgerald's case against higher ups (e.g. conspiracy case re Cheney/Bush/others).

Would a negotiated agreement with such a focus necessitate Rove resigning his WH position within "24 business hours" (i.e. either immediately, Monday evening, or after some pre-determined date/event/filing)? Should it be unexpected that the conditions of cooperation with Fitzgerald for reduced indictment charges for Rove remain under seal ("...in order not to tip off other members of a conspiracy"...see below)?

Is this alternative a possibility?

From There's not much that can be done re: sealed indictments. by Kagemusha (emphasis mine)
A sealed indictment can be used as something akin to legal blackmail by the state: a last ditch effort to intimidate a future defendant into "coming to Jesus" and cooperating on condition that the indictment stays sealed in order not to tip off other members of a conspiracy (as an example). I only know about this because of talk that Fitz has done this in organized crime cases. So, until a final deal is rejected and the indictment is unsealed and Rove has to answer charges in public, we don't know, we can't know, and that includes the media. I can't see Fitz' side leaking word of a sealed indictment. It's unwise to the extreme for Rove's legal team to leak word of a sealed indictment. Leopold's story depends on word of mouth that Rove informed the White House he'd been served with a sealed indictment, something which even the White House itself cannot confirm legitimately.

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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. wow.... excellent post.
The alternative you suggest is most definitely a possibility. Although I don't see the value of keeping Rove's plea agreement secret from other members of the conspiracy. Surely they and their lawyers see that as a possibility, and I don't see what if anything they could do about it.
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. BTW, a Sunday clarification: "24 business hrs" == three 8-hr work days
Edited on Mon May-15-06 10:33 AM by tiptoe
William Pitt contacted Jason Leopold on Sunday re his original report's "he has 24 hours to get his affairs in order":

Posted by WilliamPitt, Sunday, May 14 I just got off the phone with Jason Leopold
who clarified something for me that is pretty damned important. In his article, he said:

"During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning."

In point of fact, those 24 hours are "business hours," i.e. starting on Monday.

"Jeez, Jason," I said, "we might want to put that into the essay. Half the planet thought 24 hours was 24 hours. They thought the deal would go down today."

To be fair, a dozen eyes looked at that article yesterday before we published it, mine included, and none of us caught that. The word "business" has been inserted into the story after "hours" where it belongs:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051306W.shtml

So. Monday at the very earliest, but more like Tuesday or Wednesday...


"24 business hours" ==
1st 8-hr day = Monday 8-5,
2nd 8-hr day = Tuesday 8-5
3rd 8-hr day = Wednesday 8-5

(Wednesday 8-5 also = GJ meeting)

If Leopold's report holds water, by Wednesday evening at latest Rove resigns and leaves his current WH position.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. That was the first question I asked...
and instead of getting an answer, I was labeled a GOP troll.

Go figure.
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Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-15-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Groupthink is a powerful force...n/t
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meisje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Shit= Transfer "X" dollars in to off shore account
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