While I might disagree with you, I will defend to my death

[hyphenate]

your right to say it.

An old quote, surely, but one with as much meaning today--and perhaps even more meaning today--than ever.

Let's face it folks: many good people here at DU have their own opinions on an infinite number of issues, topics and life in general. These opinions on individual topics can run the gamut from almost pure conservatism to the farthest point on the left. We might grate at some of these opinions and disagree wholeheartedly with them, but we hopefully remember that in a free state that free speech is something we all cherish, and have to keep in mind when we share discourse with others.

The only other time that DU was so belligerent was during the primaries when individual loyalties to candidates caused a furor and pitted one DUer against another. After the primaries, things calmed down, and we came together to elect the person selected to run for the Democratic ticket. We were united again in our goal to oust the wrong wing out of the west wing.

But now, it seems that there are many, many malcontents here who want their opinion to be the ONE and have no regard to those who have opposing opinions. They argue constantly, are incessant in their aggression against those who have made their own (opposing) opinions clear and have no regard for these opinions. They are trying, whether consciously or unconsciously, to break up the camaraderie we have established here at DU, and throw us into disarray. They might not be coservatives, but they ARE an enemy. Anyone who can not accept the opinions of others, who can not get along with others here at DU are not the kind of people we need here.

They ARE disruptors, even if they place a "D" next to their name. They aren't real "D"s--they are DINOs as much as Zell Miller, as much as Mary Landrieu, and as much as any other sack of shit who says they are Dems and fail to act like them. And perhaps, after all, that "D" next to their name stands for "disruptor" anyhow.

Remember when we were children and the teacher used to tell parents that "John" doesn't play well with others, or "Sue" is aggressive toward other children? Well, "John" and "Sue" are now here at DU, and there are no parents to deal with anymore--just us. And if we can not actively, together, turn this around, and either get rid of the disruptors or shame them into acting more reasonable or more in keeping with good social behavior, then we are the losers. We will lose more people as they get frustrated in trying to share their views, we will lose longtimers because they(we) remember when DU was something we all breathed a sigh of relief at finding--a place of support when the world began to turn dark.

A couple of weeks ago I had to deal with a couple of DUers who were aggressive in such a manner, and if I hadn't allowed some cooling down time in between posts and my replies, I would have simply said they were fucking bitches and gotten banned because I could no longer deal with the snotiness and the hatred coming out of them. One of them was so vehement in their nastiness that I was prepared to tell them that the charges they alleged against me might not have been true, but that THEY were the worst kinds of assholes on the planet--the ones who were all high and mighty and were not really welcomed at DU, not because they didn't share the kinds of opinions we all have here in general, but because they were simply despicable people.

What's it gonna be? Do we allow these people to repeatedly hammer us down without so much as a warning to them for their nastiness, or do we get warned and possibly banned for telling them to go fuck themselves?

I think we need to make a new proclamation. I think it's time that these social misfits be taught that not playing "nice" is a factor and a trait that most of us here don't share with these assholes. As liberals, we DO give a damn about others, and while we may NOT AGREE, we respectfully defend their right to say it. We DON'T go around telling people who don't share our opinions that they are wrong, and try to show our own "moral superiority" when in fact those that tout such shit are the ones who are knee deep in their own version of it.

It requires a concerted effort on ALL of us who give a damn about DU and our presence here, to show these people the door in as respectful a way as possible, but not to give in to their nastiness, their bullshit and their power plays. It requires that we memorize the rules of order here, and report any of these people who are striving to tear us apart. It means that there will be NO stone unturned in showing that those who remain nasty NEED to get the fuck off DU.

If we can't stop these people, our haven here will end, and only these assholes will remain, to continue to turn one person against another, to make sure their opinions are the rule of the land and we will lose ultimately. Whether they are "D"s or not, assholes are still assholes, regardless of which face they turn to the world, and we need to put them in their place, and not allow them to shut us out from one of the few places online where we feel at home.

[whathappened]

1. been here a long time

and yes you are saying some things i can relate to , du has changed big time over the years i have been reading the good news of the day , it seems like we have a group of people here on the du that has hijacked the boards and have left us all behind with there veiws or the highway for you , sometimes i just click off du and go surfing the web to get my mine off what this site has gone to , and then i always come back and read on , sorry this was so long , but no what you are feeling

[hyphenate]

2. I love DU.

I left some other sites where I felt I didn't exactly fit in, that were frustrating, insulting and arrogant. I came here for the support among like-minded people, to talk about subjects with which I had no one in real life to discuss, and to find some people with whom I had a great deal in common. To see such rampant disregard for most of the other people on this site by these troublesome disruptors, is sad. I wish I could personally do something to end this, but the fact is, we all need to do something as a group. Our united front is our best defense and our best weapon at the same time.

[Yollam]

3. Okay, so where do you draw the line?

At which point does one become a "DINO"?

When they support Zell or Lieberman?

When they support a regressive "flat tax"?

When they support people who voted for the IWR?

When they're liberal, but just plain argumentative?


I've been called a freeper mole because I believe that a pro-labor, social redistibutionist agenda is more important than Roe v. Wade. I think I'm to the left of most people here on a great many issues but I've been called a freeper for not toeing the line.

I guess all I'm saying is that when you start calling for crackdowns on whatever behavior it is that bothers you, you put the mods in the position of having to codify these arbitrary ideological lines, deciding who is on the "right side" and that seems like it would be an overwhelming job to me.


That's why I avoid calling anyone a freeper unless they come right out and say something stupid like "Hanoi John was a commie traitor". And I simply tolerate the DINOS (and I personally include all apologists for the IWR in this camp) as a fact of life because sadly, we need them.

[Solo_in_MD]

4. The doctrinaire really ruin what the progressive movement

could and should be, a group of liked minded people with various views on diverse issues, all headed in the same general direction. Leave orthodoxy fights for the repukes

[ShortnFiery]

10. But us LIBERALS vice this new fangled (mangled?) ...

... term PROGRESSIVES :wtf: are just doing fine in the same beliefs as we had as dirty little pre-teen hippies of the 1970s. Come join us and reclaim *LIBERAL* as a beautiful word?

[hyphenate]

5. I don't honestly know

Except for when someone challenges another poster about their opinions to such a degree that the challenger is obviously mocking them without a direct insult, or when they are so argumentative that it is obvious they are baiting the other poster.

I normally don't call anyone a freeper unless it is so obvious that you would need to be as dumb as the idiot-in-chief in order to let them slide. And we're not talking about that kind of troll--I'm talking about people who are here and are trying to prove that they are the only ones who are right. People who don't tolerate a difference of opinion. People who accuse others of stances that they don't really have. People who pretend to be as liberal as everyone else, but who are really looking for arguments so that they can claim their raison d'etre.

Put most simply--if you see that kind of behavior, you will know what it is.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. I suggest you misinterpreted the meaning of the quote you used.

It's not supposed to be "While I might disagree with you, I will defend to my death your duty to go away and annoy someone else with it."

There are two or three issues here with which I hold strong opinions, often contrary to the prevailing view. You may or may not agree with me in those viewpoints, but it really doesn't matter. I'm not supportive of any litmus test for participants save one: a committment to rid ourselves of republican rule.

I have found too often that accusing people of being freepers, malcontents, infiltrators and worse is often used as a shortcut to avoid debating the issue at hand.

DU won't be "a home" until we tolerate debate on how to best achieve our collective mission.

[upi402]

7. I say, shut the neocons up

i'm done with the wretches

they destroyed a great nation and murdered thousands so they could loot the treasury and rob US blind. all the while berating the truth, defiling heroes' memories and sacrifices, and countless crimes against civilized life -even life itself. effumall.

why make nice unless you like what you've been getting?
it's like prison mentality... it's pointless when we keep trying to reason with it. it's insanity that we face and we may as well face it.

[walldude]

8. First off if you hang out in GD you will end up getting flamed

over something or another. Some people just can't have a debate without their trusty flame thrower. Get used to it or hang out in other forums. The more specific forums are much more reasonable. I made a post like this once, a year or so ago, since then I have come to terms with the fact that this is the internet and if you hang out on a political forum you are going to get flamed. I'm guilty of it myself, yesterday a guy posted an immigration thread where he used illegal pot smoking as a metaphor, well I just jumped his shit about the benefits of legalization, going so far as to call him clueless. Not overly mean or anything, but it was damn embarassing when he calmly informed me that it was a metaphor and I was the clueless one. We ended up toasting each other and having a laugh over it. Thats how you deal with flames, calmly dispute it or use the ignore button. Everybody has different life experiences and they come here with different perspectives. If we remember that we may just be a bit more civil in our "discussions".

[hyphenate]

9. I agree with you on this:

"Everybody has different life experiences and they come here with different perspectives. If we remember that we may just be a bit more civil in our "discussions"."

This is part of what I'm talking about. Rather than have someone attack you for having a different--or uninformed--opinion, they should be dealt with patiently, explaining, if necessary, why they feel the way they do. Once something is explained, it's an easier issue to discuss with someone, keeping in mind why they are not seeing something the same way you are.

Yesterday, I was in a topic where I was talking about something, and a poster came and said that what I was talking about was a false notion, and posted a link to disprove what I was saying. Instead of telling the poster to fuck off or something, I explained my reasons for the post. That's the only way to show that differences of opinion are based on life-long experiences for many and while they might contradict the "norm" or statistics, it doesn't mean that they aren't true.

[Guaranteed]

11. This all seems pretty tame, to me.

I'm enjoying myself. Don't see TOO many who are getting THAT heated.

I see some dumbasses around, sure.

But, from my experience this is pleasant, compared to what it has been at times in the past.

Maybe it's because I'm mostly just going into the Colbert threads. :P

[Moderator]

12. Locking....

If you feel that someone is a freeper/disruptor,
please use the alert button so that the moderators
can take care of it. Taking the "law" into your
own hands is a rule violation. Please remember
that because someone has a different POV it
doesn't mean that person is a disruptor.

If you have any further concerns about
this, please contact the Administrators.