PsychoDad ... I went on Dec. 8th to the local mosque as part of my ..

[Maat]

Interfaith Group.

The prayer rugs laid in a row were breathtakingly beautiful, along with the artwork in the worship area.

They had fixed up an old industrial building; the building was not identified as a mosque. That made it difficult to find, but we made it.

I'm a 47-year-old married mom, and I just dressed in a turtleneck and long pants, with boots. We went upstairs to the Imam's office and ate food his wife had prepared. It was delicious.

The 'sisters' in the mosque wore head coverings, but one was a realtor who just kept a headcovering in the car.

It disturbed this feminist a bit that the females had to wear head coverings in contrast to the men, but I dealt with it (tried to put that judgmental attitude out of my mind).

The Imam was very kind. He made me sad telling a story about how he knew someone who had disappeared, and who had been incarcerated and mistreated for several years - with no habeas corpus hearing and no charges filed.

We started conversing after he found out I had a law degree; he told me that a congregant had been arrested on domestic violence charges, despite the wife's denial that she had been hit or injured. He explained that he felt non-Muslims believed that 'all Muslim men beat their wives.' I assured that was not true, and that I was very sorry to see such situations. I couldn't tell if he was a bit reserved because he was uncomfortable with a non-Muslim, or for some other reason.

We have a funny law out here in California. The intent of the law was to see to it that someone went to jail if there were injuries on a spouse - even if that spouse did not want to support the investigation (perhaps was too scared to talk). This law has turned out to be a nightmare. Frequently, if a cop is called to a scene, and both partners were just barely fingerpointing or shoving each other, not wanting police intervention (and no one was really in physical danger), the cops still feel compelled to take someone to jail, even though that is not how I read the statute.

Anyway, we saw much beautiful art in the Iman's office; he explained how he was going on a haj.

I, a Religious Scientist (a person who honors all paths), really want to connect with my Muslim friends. I could use some tips.

I realize that some Christians, Southern Baptists for example, look at women as being essentially second-class citizens. I know that there are some Muslims (my female physician friend) who are definitely co-partners with their spouses. This mosque and its members seemed moderate all of the way around. I know that there are both progressively-minded and really socially conservative Jewish denominations.

It is difficult for me to discuss things with one of the LDS men in the group; one of their male reps is very friendly and engaging. The other one seems to look down upon women. Sometimes, I don't think the Interfaith group is my thing. I prefer hanging around those who believe in equal opportunity for women.

Anyway, just trying to learn (and I have a good heart).

Thoughts?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. May I reply?

Psycho Dad can tell you more about Sunni and Shia Islam, but I can tell you about Sufis. In my particular Order, women are an honored and equal part of things-there are many women who are spiritual teachers, and some hold spiritual ranks, such as Shaykha and Murshida. I believe the Shaykha of the Helveti-Jarrahi Order in NY City is a woman, and that she is leading zikar, our main spiritual practices-I don't know if she leads prayers (though I have a Helveti-Jarrahi sister who does-not in the mosque, but in her house). A Sufi initiate may be a member of more than one order, and that is my case, as well as the case of my husband. We have equal partnership and a very loving relationship.

I will be very interested in reading from brothers and sisters who aren't Sufis. Like you, I believe all paths lead to God, and to find out more of them helps me understand a bit more about The Beloved.

[Maat]

2. Thank you, Dear.

Thanks for the reply.

I knew that Sufis were pretty modern; I can't imagine that you would not be in a forward-thinking church.

It is good to know that women are spiritual leaders in your faith. It is good to know that you and your hubby enjoy an equal and loving relationship, as do my husband and I. I just want to steer others in the right direction.

I feel, however, that your faith is related to my faith in that both are considered 'mystical.' Mine, Religious Science, is a mystical faith that occurred when someone who had been raised a Christian explored other spiritualities, and incorporated many religious wisdoms into one faith. I'm sure the Sufi aspect of Islam is much older than Religious Science.

I, too, am wondering about other types of Islam, particularly as practiced in the U.S.

[Aimah]

3. A Good Site

This is a site written by women which explains many of our practices and clears up some misconceptions as they pertain to Muslim women.

http://www.mwlusa.org/

There are many different Sufi movements and also Sunni and Shia who are in Sufi orders so that's a hard question to answer with so many variables.

Most Mosques have women separate from men and are probably like the Mosque that you visited. There is an Imam who leads prayers and the men sit in the front and women towards the back or in another section of the Mosque.

[Maat]

6. Thanks! I love to learn.

It is just different.

But then some of my relatives moved back to the Midwest and became hardright Southern Baptists! Now, that's something I'm still trying to deal with!

[Aimah]

9. It is a bit different but once you peel off the surface...

like the language and a few of our practices you'll see what Muslims have in common with Christians and Jews.

[Maat]

10. I can see many things.

It is hard for me - because I'm neither a Christian, a Muslim or a Jew.

We believe Spirit is both within and without, and that we are all equally divine.

So, we honor all paths, and don't have a quarrel or a preference for anyone.

That's good - we can enjoy anyone's company.

It's hard in that we such a minority, and few are standing up for the fundamental rights of all in this country.

I can count on my DU friends, however.

(I'm a Religious Scientist - www.rsintl.org or www.religiousscience.org )

The founder of our church, Ernest Holmes, synthesized the wisdoms of the various majority faiths; that is why I can particularly appreciate the commonalities (the wise teachings running throughout).

Happy Holidays!

[plasticwidow]

4. Sorry about the length of this reply...

Hello Maat, and welcome to Islam.

First, as a new Muslim (I declared the shahahdah, or declaration of faith about 3 ½ years ago with my husband) it is good to see more and more individuals such as yourself, exploring to see what Islam, and other religions, really is, and take the time to visit and spend time with us.

There are so many misconceptions about Muslim women in the U.S. and it varies depending upon whom you talk to. In many European countries, we women have to actually fight to wear the Hijab, or head covering. My daughters want to do the right thing also and wear their hijabs to school, but because we are the only Muslims here in our town, they meet up with a lot of peer pressure and sometimes falter in their struggle to believe and practice their faith openly. I cannot speak for my Muslim sisters abroad, but I can for the most part speak for most of my Muslim sisters here in America. We feel it is our right and our obligation as women of faith to wear our Hijab, as prescribed in the Quran, the same as it is prescribed to pray five times a day. My oldest daughter recently overcame a big obstacle in her school and has been allowed by the faculty to meet her religions obligation of praying noon prayer. I am proud to say I have strong daughters. You see, I too was under the misconception that Muslim women “had” to wear a headcovering, that Muslim women were “second rate” members of the Muslim community, and that we had to take a “back seat” so to speak to the men. This is a very big misconception held by many who, through lack of information and exposure to the “real” Islam, believe what they see and hear in the media and by non-Muslims. Talk to a Muslim woman who wears the Hijab and you will hear her story. There are some who desire not to wear a Hijab and, for the most part, have the ability and choice not to wear it. For lack of a better phrase, the Hijab is our “religious” symbol, and it is our “right” to wear, if we choose to do so. A great deal of Muslim women wear the Hijab because it is asked of us by God, or Allah (the Arabic word for “God”), in the Quran, our Holy Book. We are to dress modestly so as to not garner the unwanted attention of men who “desire” to look at our curves and exposed bodies. Our bodies are meant only for the eyes of those who we marry, and no one has a right to gawk and compare our “physical” looks with others. Because this attention is off of our physical bodies, men and women alike are forced to learn to know us by our speech, actions and deeds, and must listen to our words. Being an American all my life and exploring the many different religions available to Americans here in the U.S., I find it refreshing and liberating to not be judged on my looks, but on my actions and words. Men are also prescribed to wear and dress a certain way, it is just that we Muslim women tend to stand out a little bit more than the men. Muslim men must also dress modestly, cannot have certain parts of their bodies exposed and must act a certain way also. Again, modesty is the key here. More on this later, as there were other parts of your post that I wanted to talk about, too.

Equal opportunity is a big term, and is very much practiced in Islam. Muslim women are doctors, scientists, teachers, lawyers. The Quran encourages all Muslims, women and men alike, seek knowledge, and teach this knowledge to others, in all walks of life. Islam makes no differentiation between men and women in this regard.

What you will see in any given Mosque and/or Masjid, is the many varied and different cultures there. Some of the sisters do not even speak English, and come from many different countries. What is difficult for many is separating what is cultural from what is religious, and here also is where the misconceptions come in. I have seen some Muslim women eat with their hands, yet others eat with forks and spoons. I have seen some Muslim women pray a certain way, and others pray another. I have seen so many different types of headcoverings that would fall under “Hijab”, that there is no one “right” headcovering. A Muslim sister from Saudi Arabia may have a different concept of Hijab as a Muslim sister from Africa or France or America. Again, it is cultural. What is universal though, is the belief in the “oneness of God” and that “Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the messenger and servant of God”. That is the declaration of faith. By oneness, we mean that we all believe in the same God, the only God of all peoples, regardless what the people call God, what their faith is, there is only one who answers any and all prayers, to whom God will, whenever God will, and that is the creator of everything. The Jewish Rabbi prays to the same God as the Wiccan priestess, and the Southern Baptist prays to the same God as the Taoist. No matter what the religion or belief, there is only one God who answers prayers, forgives whomever God forgives, and helps whomever God decides to help. And I apologize for my repetitiveness, I do that a lot.  Anyway, a bit of advice to you is, be yourself, ask questions, we Muslims love to answer honest, heartfelt questions. Be open and honest, and just enjoy yourself. Enjoy the cultures, the foods, the varied differences and similarities and the hospitality. It was funny, one day we had a large picnic at the Masjid we attend (which is over an hour away from us) and one of the sisters introduced me to a local Christian lady who comes to the Masjid every chance she gets. We got to talking and she told me the only reason she comes to the Masjid is to eat the delicious food. And we started laughing. It is not hard to break the “ice” so to speak, I think the hardest barrier to overcome is the language one. I have found that many sisters who I try to talk to, do not understand English very well and feel “inadequate” in communicating, and sometimes are afraid to talk because they do not want to say the wrong thing and offend anyone. So another big thing is, please do not be offended if a sister says something to you that you are unsure of what they mean. Chances are they are struggling to find the right words to express something that is much easier to express in their own language. Visit often, and share something of your beliefs with them. You will find yours and their beliefs are not all that different. The big difference in Christianity and Islam.. is that we Muslims do not believe Jesus (peace be upon him) is God, but Jesus is a very important prophet of God, along with all the other prophets (peace be upon them all), from Adam, all the way to Moses, Abraham, Joseph and others of the bible. We have one more prophet though, and that is Muhammad (peace be upon him), the last prophet sent to all mankind. And I could go on and on with this, and I am sorry if I was unable to help you in your questions. Maybe this is a good start and will be of some help. Please feel free to contact me if you would like to know more or have any other questions, or ask here in the Islam/Muslim group, we all will be more than happy to answer any questions you might have and just hang out and chat.

Peace to you!!

[Maat]

7. Peace to you! And thanks so much for the reply!

My good friend of over fifteen years is a pediatrician (my daughter's); she is Muslim. She dresses like the typical doctor when she's at work and at home.

She does not go to a mosque, however; they worship at work and at home.

She's not the best at answering questions about the faith.

What you say makes so much intuitive sense (just feels naturally logical).

I'm teaching my daughter about all of the spiritualities/faiths; I teach her that she is a world citizen, and one who rejects hatred for fellow human beings.

I, too, believe that all paths lead to God, and we honor all paths.

Thanks again.

[PsychoDad]

5. I'm glad your experience was a positive one

:)

You bring up some good questions, I only hope I can do justice to them.

Moderation is the way of Islam, or should be. The prophet(peace be upon him) stated, "Islam should be a thing that is soft and easy, not hard".

You mention the head scarves worn by the women at the mosque, in contrast to the men. What many don't know is that Muslim men also have various obligations as prescribed by both Quran and Sunnah in regard to dress.

According to the Quran, men, as well as women, are expected to dress modestly, that is most often understood to be what is modest in the society the Muslims are in, although some have a stricter interpretation of this. Men are also forbidden to wear silk or gold, although women are free to wear as much as they wish. Women are actually instructed only to cover themselves modestly and not to walk in a way that is provocative. The question of Hijab, or head covering is a subject of much discussion in muslim circles, but one that has been dictated more by culture and society than by understanding of Quran.

According to Hadeeth men are also advised to have a beard, not wear garments that come below the ankle, and to also cover their heads during prayer. It always amuses me when a brother will comment upon a sister who does not wear hijab, while he himself has a silk tie, a gold ring and is clean shaven.

But in the end the Quran tells us that the One will judge us not upon our looks or wealth, but upon our intentions and hearts.

As to the place and role of women in Islam, the Quran states quite clearly that in the eyes of God, men and women are equal and that what applied to one applied to the other. Quite a revolutionary stand for the time of the Prophet(peace be upon him). It is unfortunate that society did not, and often does not, have the same wisdom as the One.

1400 years ago when most of the world saw women as little more than property, Allah, through the Quran and Muhammad (saw) insured women the following rights, that should be adhered to in any Islamic society: (and it is a sad comment that it is often not the case)

-The right and duty to obtain an education. Many Muslim scholars were and are Women.
-The right to negotiate marriage terms of her choice and to refuse any marriage that does not please them. Prenuptial agreements were invented by Islam, a husband to be must agree publicly to the terms of a marriage contract dictated by the wife to be. Forced marriage is prohibited in Islam.
-The right to their own independent property and The right to keep all her own money. This applies to property brought into a marriage, given to her or earned during marriage.
-The right to a career or to work to earn money if they need it or want it. The right also to any career that they wish.
-Equality of reward for equal deeds, equal pay for equal work.
-The right to express their opinion and be heard without fear of reprisal.
-A married woman has the right to provisions from the husband for all her family needs. As above a married woman may keep all the money or property that belongs to her, but everything the husband owns belongs to the family and the wife has full right to it.
-The right to obtain a divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply can't stand him anymore.
-The right to sexual satisfaction from her husband.
-Right of custody of their children after divorce.

Islam also makes no demand that women should confine themselves to household duties. Early Muslim women were found in all walks of life. In fact the first wife of the Prophet(saw), was a businesswoman who hired him on as an employee, and proposed marriage to him through a third party. In Islamic society women traded in the marketplace, and the Khalifah Umar appointed a woman, Shaff'a Bint Abdullah, to supervise the market, much like Secretary of Commerce for the time. Other women, like Laila al-Ghifariah, took part in battles, carrying water and nursing the wounded, some, like Suffiah bint Abdul Muttalib even fought to protect themselves and the Prophet (saw) and like Umm Dhahhak bint Masoud were rewarded the same way as the men. Ibn Jarir and al-Tabari, early Muslim jurists, were of the opinion that women can be appointed to a judicial position and adjudicate in any matter of law or faith.

Meanwhile a woman who decides to become a wife doesn't even have an obligation to do the housework. If a wife does not wish to, the husband is obliged to provide domestic help within his means, and to make sure that food gets to his wife and children, already cooked. The Prophet(saw) himself used to help with the domestic work, and mended his own shoes, and it is his example Muslim men should emulate. "He who is best to his wife", Muhammad stated, "is the best believer", and "You cannot show disrespect to woman without showing disrespect to the womb that bore you".


I think you probably already have a great deal in common with your Muslim friends, as you feel all paths lead to the One, I see all paths as coming from the One. It is from One source everything comes and all things will return.

I know I have only scratched the surface, I hope we can talk further. Please, I am here for any questions that I may be able to help with. :)

Peace

[Maat]

8. Thanks so much for the reply!

I can educate my daughter this way (and myself)!

I do firmly believe that all paths lead to the One.

This is definitely right on target: "It is from One source everything comes and all things will return." That would be the once central principle/tenet of Religious Science.

It is too bad that everyone does not participate in an Interfaith group; it would solve the problems that stem from pure ignorance.

When I was at the Mosque, one of the brothers told me about traveling around the world, and discovering that what he wanted for his family was identical to what most people of different faiths wanted for their families.

I told him I appreciated that sentiment, for it is what I discovered working as a social worker.