What's a red flag of an anti-feminist man to you?

[geniph]

For me, it's a man who a) hates his mother, b) refers to all his ex'es as "manipulative bitches," and c) demeans GLBT people. It's been my experience that those men are insecure, and insecure men are afraid of women. That makes them misogynistic.

[BlueIris]

1. While I know that not every man who does this is anti-feminist...

and seriously, fellow posters, I DO know that, the biggest red-flag of all for me at this moment (and seriously, it's a red flag for a lot of other things, none of them good) is if he votes Republican. I just can't reconcile that with anything resembling support for feminism. No, I am not anti-Republican, I don't hate Republicans--but for me, considering everything the Republican Party of the United States has openly faciliatated for the last ten years, for you to actually join and then vote for members from its ranks...sorry, can't see it. I don't hate you, but you're not a feminist.

[geniph]

2. You know, that's a good point

I'm really, sincerely trying to think of an actual feminist man I know who still votes Republican. I can think of several who USED to vote Republican, but I cannot think of a single feminist man I know who can stomach voting for THIS pack of crooks.

[Warpy]

3. For me, your first is sufficient.

Even the best men out there may have the occasional lapse into MCPism, but show me a man who treats his mother like a servant (or worse) and I'll show you a true pig and a waste of oxygen. That's always been a dealbreaker for me, and I've always been absolutely right about it.

However, I've known a few of the good guys who have ventilated about an ex after an ugly breakup and I've known a couple who have lapsed into grousing about GLBT people after they've been slapped down by an attractive bi or Lesbian. It happens, they're human.

But show me a guy who treats his mother like shit, and I'll show you something that needs to be scraped off your shoe.

[geniph]

4. Yeah, I was generalizing

What I meant by b) and c) were guys that ALWAYS do this - the ones that never have anything good to say about any of their ex'es and take every opportunity to demean GLBT folks. Not the occasional guy who really was screwed over by his ex-wife, or who just doesn't like the really butch dyke he works with who keeps giving him shit.

My own mother is no prize, but any guy who has not one good thing to say about his mother either has one horrible mother, or is a misogynist. And the ones who think their mothers exist to serve them - those guys are definitely a waste of oxygen. (I would say the same for women, but I have yet to meet a woman who thinks her mother exists to serve her.)

[Lerkfish]

12. on the other hand....

if you had a stepmother like I did, not liking her was a rational response, since she abused us.

therefore, I think the litmus is bit overbroad

IMHO.

[Warpy]

14. You can heartily dislike someone and still treat them

civilly and with the respect accorded them by their position in life. In your case it was not only your father's affection for her but also the fact that she was charged with helping to bring you up.

There are a whole lot of people in this world that you are not compelled to like. However, the way you treat them will always be how others determine your character.

[Lerkfish]

19. I'm going out on a limb here and think maybe you've

never been brought up by abusive parents.

outward civility and respect are a given. if you deviate, you're abused worse.

however, there is no way I'm going to respect an abuser, no matter the gender, not when I was the victim.

but sorry, wasn't trying to sidetrack this thread, was just saying absolute litmus tests are not going to address every situation. I think its wrong to make the blanket statement that anyone who does not respect their mother is a misogynist. Your mother is part of a social intrapersonal family dynamic that may have nothing to do with general attitudes of a gender at large.

I also do not respect my father for abusing me...does that make me both misogynist and misanthropic (or whatever the word would be?) or does it just mean those particular two people aggressively eroded my respect for them due to their own actions?

[Warpy]

20. Actually, I was brought up by abusive parents

and I was kept out of school for the "black and blue flu" more than once.

So don't make snap judgments about me or any other person on these boards because you will be wrong.

Again, seeing a man treat his mother like dirt is a dealbreaker. It has always been a very valid indicator of how he treats women, in general, once the honeymoon phase is over. I've had a lot of years to watch this unfold. I have never been wrong.

The abuse may not start until that first pregnancy, but it always starts.

[Lerkfish]

25. "snap judgements"

ok, I'll keep that in mind.

where's the irony smiley?

[UCLA Dem]

5. If he doesn't like you to voice your opinions and tries to control you.

[geniph]

6. That's a red flag of an abuser!

Run AWAY, run FAR AWAY!

:scared:

[Hello_Kitty]

11. And constantly interrupting you when you speak

Or just dismissing your opinions outright. Or acting threatened by you even have opinions at all.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[BlueIris]

8. I'm not calling this a "red-flag," but I'm suspicious of anyone who

lacks familiarity with essential information about feminism or the customary ways it is polite, in the civilized, modern world, to interact with women. Who someone like Betty Friedan is, why you should address any adult woman you don't know with "Ms.," not "Miss," for instance. Being at least somewhat conversant with feminism is part of being a culturally literate individual. I have tolerance and kindness for people who have not been given the greatest educational and cultural opportunities in the world, God knows that depending on whom you ask, I'm not exactly the most sophisticated person on the planet. But not knowing item one about feminism? It's like the voting Republican issue I posted about before. When you start talking to those people about their world views, opinions and values, the conversation isn't likely to go to the best place.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Treating people in the service industries like crap

Is a good sign. When I'm out with a guy and he's giving the server at the restaurant a hard time, it's clear that he feels certain people are "beneath" him and not surprisingly, you'll find he believes women exist to serve him too.

[geniph]

13. I always liked what Dave Barry said about that:

"A person who is nice to you but is not nice to the waitperson is not a nice person."

[libodem]

15. there's guys that just plain hate women

what are we doin' tryin' to date 'em.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. My first clue is usually they are addressing my breasts instead of me

after that, it's usually the terminology they use toward women -anything from objectifying language repeatedly to hostile terminology.

[Chovexani]

18. I bought a great t-shirt at a sci-fi con I attended a while back

Written across the chest: "These are not the breasts you are looking for."

:rofl:

[BlueIris]

17. If you learn about a string of women from his past who hate his guts.

Former partners or former friends/colleagues/employees, either because he tells you about them, others tell you, or you find out through some other way, who have extremely negative opinions of him? As in, they despise him, "for some reason," or they despise things he did when they were friends/coworkers/partners, so much so that they have quit working with or for him, probably aren't speaking to him, don't ever plan to again or are staying as far away from as they can? Could be a big clue that "feminist" is not a term that would apply to the man in question. Even if he personally never refers to these women disrespectfully or unfairly, ("manipulative bitches," or with other epithets) a bunch of women who actively resent or dislike him may feel this way for a reason. You might want to try to get him to open up about "what happened" between him and these women to see if any anti-feminist attitudes crop up. So you can get the hell away, whatever that has to mean for you (I'm cringing thinking about the people who encounter anti-feminism in not just a potential male friend or partner, but a potential or extant employer; I had one of those once, and I could not get out of that job fast enough--but every day I had to work there after being exposed to his misogyny felt like a lifetime).

[Solly Mack]

21. Any man who uses the word pussy to mean weak or cowardly

Sorry, if you use that word to define weak or cowardly, then I do indeed think of you as a sexist.

the type of complaints against women bosses and the language used

the mother thing

republicans

how they refer to women in general, exes in particular

all kinds of things set off my alarm

[Hello_Kitty]

22. Intense interest in mail-order bride sites

Accompanied by comments like "The women from (fill in the blank) know how to treat a man, unlike American bitches." I'd say that's a pretty good sign.

[libodem]

23. when he refers to your best friend as a

sheman.

[beam me up scottie]

24. Anyone who uses the term

"girlie-man".

[marions ghost]

26. if a man I've never met comes into a room of people...

and interacts with all the men while ignoring the women, it's a dead giveaway that he's a sexist type. I wonder if we'll get to a day when men will interact with women as equals. Sexist men only seem to be comfortable if-- 1. the woman is is boss in which case she deserves due respect 2. the woman is so far beneath him in status that he adopts the warm paternalistic role. Anyone in the middle is fair game for the sexist.

[Eloriel]

27. My tolerance level is EXTREMELY low

I mean REALLY low. Some of the responses here would admit a lot of men into your lives that I wouldn't. I don't mean that as a criticism -- at ALL! -- just a puzzled observation.

To me, there are 3 types of men, only 2 of which have any business in my life anywhere, anytime:

1. Clearly pro-women men, and feminist men
2. educable men -- they may not know a lot about sexism and feminism, but they're definitely willing to listen and learn
3. all the others: from the not-educable men to the full-out misogynists.


* Pro-woman men -- Men who have no problem giving women full respect, and rights in their own personal lives. I would say, prompted by some of the other posts which I certainly agree with, these are men who don't have many real "mother" issues, but treat their own mothers well. This category does NOT include those men who loudly proclaim that they "just LOVE women," usually with a little or a lot of lust in their eyes. They think of themselves as ladies' men, as good (but may be just prolific) lovers. These men are typically users: yeah, they love sex, and mainly love to bang 'em and leave 'em.

[Hello_Kitty]

28. Here's another (kind of odd, but true)

In my line of work, I get the dubious benefit of having my finger on the pulse of misogynistic culture. Lately, I've noticed some of the more rabid women-haters being obsessed with what they view as some sort of subversive plot by purveyors of women's entertainment to destroy the American family, and of course, to bring about the downfall of masculinity. The main offenders are Lifetime (Television for Women) which apparently we all watch religiously and get our worldview from, and Oprah. Lifetime is evil because it features silly movies about women emperiled by abusive men. Oprah is the anti-Christ because, according to more than one guy I've talked to, she's convincing women to leave their husbands. I had no idea!! One very rabid misogynist with whom I'm unfortunately acquainted stated that if he were granted the power, he'd have Oprah assassinated. Ms. Winfrey's protege Dr. Phil has also incurred their wrath because "he's a male basher too."

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Oprah, Dr. Phil, or Lifetime but I became a bit curious. Hey, whatever it is they're doing to piss these guys off, I'm all for it! I watched all three a few times and for the life of me couldn't see anything but the usual pop-psychology pat answers, product placement, and melodrama. I don't get what's got them all riled up but it must be a frequent topic of discussion on the woman hating "men's rights" boards.

So if you hear "Oprah", "Dr. Phil", or "Lifetime" mentioned angrily by a guy, it's a safe bet he's a misogynist. Don't bother to engage him in a discussion about it, because I assure you it won't make any sense. Just something I've noticed.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Any man who complains that "white males are the last acceptable

objects of discrimination."

Any man whose personal ad says that he "knows how to treat a lady."

[geniph]

31. Oh man, no kidding, Lydia!

I forgot that first one.

By the way, :hi:! I'm glad you made it here.

[Logansquare]

30. As a "joke" says "I'd hug you, but I don't want a sexual harrassment suit"

Uses the word "lady" in a way that indicates that the word "woman" is distasteful, e.g. as in a Matches ad "I like a lady who loves wearing blue jeans as much as she likes going to the symphony." Ecch..