It's time to talk about pussy

[Solly Mack]

I'm sick and tired of the word pussy being used to define weak and afraid.

I see it all the time on DU.

Using pussy to define weak or cowardly is nothing more than taking a vulgar term for the vagina and equating that with being weak and afraid.

The message is: woman = weak and timid

Ain't nothing weak about me or my pussy - and fuck you for even entertaining the thought.

The word pussy in and of itself doesn't bother me. However, certain usages of the word are very sexist.

[The empressof all]

1. Hi there

Just to let you know, we really don't allow that word to be used in a manner that is derogatory to women. It's hard for the moderators to be everywhere. If you see that word used in a way that is disrespectful of women please alert on it.

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[Solly Mack]

2. Thank you!!!! I know and I do alert.

Mods have been really great about removing the offensive posts.

If you feel this thread is inappropriate, please remove.

I just needed to rant.

[lukasahero]

3. Thanks for popping in

Since you stopped by, can I ask you something? Given Solly Mack's description of the how the word is used ("The message is: woman = weak and timid"), is there a way that the word could ever be used "in a way that is" NOT "demeaing to women"? Isn't the very word demeaning to women? Is there some etymology of the word that isn't simply a vulgar reference to a woman's vagina?

I guess I'm wondering if DU doesn't allow the use of the word, or the use of the word in a derogatory way? And if the latter, what would be considered an acceptable way to use the word?

[The empressof all]

4. IMO ----Only if it is referring to a cat

However, we are using it here as a point of discussion of the word and not referring to any particular woman or as a pejorative towards an individual or a group. So in this instance, I would think it OK.

I don't know what mod concensus would be on that for sure so don't hold me to it.

[lukasahero]

16. Thanks for such a forthright answer.

Glad to hear it. And of course, I agree that using it "as a point of discussion", is actually the best and only way it can be used constructively in a public forum.

I do have my own concerns about the use of it "for cats" especially in the Lounge because, at times, it's obviously being used to taunt and titilate ("Pussy pics inside"... "what did you think I meant?" kind of stuff) but I appreciate your answer. Really.

[Solly Mack]

6. Here in Germany, I seldom hear the word cat used for cat, it's almost

always pussy...and they mean the furry little 4 legged thing that goes meow.

So I know people do use the word without meaning offense in any way.

My gripe is using it to demean women and in a way that does demean women by implication.

I have seen the word used on DU to refer to cats....though you could tell they only used it (that way) just so they could get away with saying it.

And once, someone even used "big black pussy" ...and I gotta admit, I questioned their motives all the way around on that one.

[chicaloca]

7. ...

:wow: Holy fucking hell. Did it get deleted? I sure as hell hope so...

[Solly Mack]

9. I don't recall that it did

I'll have to go back through the African-American forum to look for the thread talking about it to be sure though....but I don't think it did...the thread, when opened, was talking about a cat...even still

I wasn't amused. Nor do I think the phrasing was innocent.

edit: just to be clear, the thread didn't orginate in the AA forum. It was started elsewhere and discussed in the AA forum.

[lukasahero]

17. Rather unlikely

The word is used in a subject line but the body of the message is a picture of a cat. It is used to titilate and taunt. See my post above or see some examples...

"Holy shit --- what a PUSSY"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=3626606

"Pussy Galore" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=3547146

"The good news... I have pussy in my bed tonight"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=3271914

"Pussy!!!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=3264979

"Rate some pussy"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2955287

"You brought home the wrong pussy from the bar"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2261644

"Who likes pussy?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2130889

"Want to see my wet pussy?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1960319

Yes, there are juveniles among us.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. I don't think a lot of DUers appreciate this site

Because there are many other sites that have those filters that won't allow anything that resembles profanity through. I used to argue on this conservative blog (I know, I know) where the filter was so oppressive that when I tried to type the name of the section of Phoenix where I live, which is called Ahwatukee, it was rejected. I'm guessing it was because of the 'uk' letter combination.

DU doesn't do that. People are given posting rules, an honor system, and expected to behave like adults. When you break the rules (and I have to admit I've been guilty myself at times) you get your posts deleted and possibly banned. We get plenty of freedom to express ourselves here but people should remember that this is a private website and the administrators have the discretion to disallow language and behavior that doesn't comply with their standards.

So here's to the admins and mods who try their best to make this a welcoming place for ALL progressives! :yourock:

[Bunny]

8. Don't like the word much myself.

And I'm glad that DU has the language rules that address this kind of stuff.

[Solly Mack]

11. I could go the rest of my life without hearing it and not miss it

but I do live in a country where it almost always means cat when used

I was set to read a comment today that I just knew would be good when WHAM! I got hit with the word (used to describe weak and timid)...so I came here to rant. (after I hit alert)

[chicaloca]

10. as long as we're ranting about usage of this word....

I'd like to know how the hell anybody ever decided that "pussy" means weak and "s/he's got balls" means somebody is strong. I mean, hell, what do testicles do that's so special, anyhow? If sperm production is so great, why isn't egg production? Why don't we say, "damn, s/he's got ovaries" as often as "s/he's got balls"? Furthermore, vaginas can push out ten-pound babies, and they're considered weak?!? But a couple of bags that just hang there are strong? Give me a goddamn break.

[Solly Mack]

12. It's from the stereotype of women being the weaker sex

so if we're the weaker sex, then men must be the stronger sex...

so

balls = strength (odd though it's balls and not penis- guess all balls are equal whereas size does matter - snicker)

vagina = weak

Just one more way to marginalize women.

Course, it doesn't make sense...like you said

I'd like to see a man carry a baby in his penis and deliver...
then let's talk about weak...

[Misunderestimator]

13. Oh... there's a thought. I'd very much like to see that too.

[lukasahero]

18. "Balls" doesn't mean strong, it means courageous

At least that's where I think the expression came from. I grew up hearing the expression "he's got brass ones". It used to be a real compliment. It didn't used to be about being male per se, but about being willing to risk a real vulnerability to stand up to someone or for something one believed.

I have no idea where the other came from. I can't imagine back in the 60's little boys calling other little boys "pussies" in the schoolyard would have been allowed if it meant what it means today.

[Solly Mack]

19. but courage implies strength...not necessarily physical strength

but strength nonetheless...intestinal fortitude

I think the word, when used to define weak or cowardly, was always a slur against women. I don't think little boys were calling each other cats, in other words. I could be wrong.

[lukasahero]

20. I agree but I don't think

they were calling each other vaginas either. See what I mean?

[Solly Mack]

21. Yes. I see what you mean

I don't think they knew they were equating weak with being female...it was just an expression they've always heard and used.

I don't think they even knew the connection. They didn't understand the term, they just used it.

I find it true that some people don't understand why something is sexist or even racist...until someone explains it to them.

Because it just never enters their consciousness that it is offensive.

Mainly because it never had to...as they weren't the ones being marginalized by it.

[MuseRider]

22. Perhaps we should

start a thread of all the words used like that and compare it to words used to describe manly traits. It would be revealing for us and maybe jump start some minds who have not ever really thought of it this way. Just a thought. I will look back when I get here later and see if anyone thinks this is a good idea. After all, most people who are progressives hopefully have the mind set that evolution is a good thing. Education, expanding our understanding and evolution of thought just might help in some cases. What do you all think?

[Solly Mack]

23. Thank you !!! That's the whole point of confronting those words

and de-constructing them. To educate and to spell out just how damaging such words can be....because language shapes (and reinforces) existing attitudes just as much as existing attitudes shape (and reinforce)the language.

[MuseRider]

24. Ok, I will start a thread here

and we can collect words. I have no idea how to go about this but I was thinking we could collect words, put them in some kind of order, define them specifically and then give examples of how they are commonly used. Perhaps at that point we could post a few thoughts about how they make us feel. Then we could collect the man words, prick etc. to be fair because this will not work unless we address all terms, both male and female. I think rather than complain (I almost said bitch :eyes:) we can maybe do something constructive with this by posting a bit of it in the lounge with a link here or maybe all of it since we don't want the nasty stuff here. We could also post in GD. I don't know. This comes from my work with gay rights here in Kansas. It seems that once educated, someone with half a brain who is willing to use it will at the very least stop being inflammatory and that is a small but good start.

[Eloriel]

14. Ya know what? It's every bit as jarring to me, IF NOT MORE SO, to

see words like that used HERE in this forum, especially in subject lines.

I understand the need to rant, but man, I was just coming here to escape the vicious atmosphere "out there" tonight, with yet another livestock-trading thread with even WORSE posts to it than yesterday, a gratuitous sexist blonde joke from a first-time poster (what the HELL makes them think sexism is OKAY here, so that their very first post is a sexist joke??), and an ugly PM from some poor pitiful male who got all offended by something I wrote, half jokingly, and took me to task for it by PM, and so forth. And the FIRST thing I encounter is another body blow in the form of an OP topic about "pussy."

YES, I hate the word. YES, it makes me sick -- literally nauseous -- and I ALWAYS alert on it and they're always dealt with (thank you, Mods).

Why, oh why oh why do I have to be socked in the jaw with it here too? It really is such a psychic blow. I just can't take it tonight. I am literally going to have to either hide this thread or leave this forum. I came here angry, now I'm in tears.

[Solly Mack]

15. So hide the thread

But I feel strongly that this word needs to be understood in regards to the sexist way it can be used.