Feminists may be interested in this thread

[Eloriel]

Journalist fired from teaching job for calling student "incredibly hot"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4140154


At least I hope some of you are. :D

[efhmc]

1. Here is my question: Eloriel, do you think we will ever be just humans

with a different set of reproductive organs to the male population in general or will we always be sexual units that are available or not to satisfy men's "needs" and desires. I am pretty sure I know your answer.

[Eloriel]

2. I don't have an answer.

I can only tell you that the only men I'm interested in for ANY reason -- from mates to friends to coworkers -- don't have any problem being relatively non-sexist. I think it's a pathology. No, make that I KNOW it's a pathology.

[efhmc]

3. Thanks for reminding me that there are plenty of men out there who are

wonderful human beings who do see us as friends and humans. I have several of those in my life but when I read stuff like this, I tend to forget.

[Heddi]

4. We are vaginas and boobs with legs

That is all we are. A walking fuckhole. Something to be done. to be nailed. to be fucked.

We are an object. Nothing more, and a whole lot less in some instances.

Look at the biology:

A penis "gives". It is the penetrator. The penis is 'aggressive' as far as its biological function.

A vagina 'takes'. It is the space which is penetrated. The vagina is 'passive' as far as its biological function goes.

I think that there lies almost a jealousy as far as vagina goes. I think Frued had it all wrong--it's not penis envy, it's vaginal/clitoral envy.

Having sex is not a guarantee of an orgasm for women. We can't just jack off and come 4 minutes later. As 'passive' as our vagina is, it's got an intellect of sorts. It's not the sex organ, it's the receptor of HIS sex organ. Our clitoris, however, is a source of contemption for many men. They feel inferior if they cannot get a woman off by vaginal penetration alone.

Many men have issues with women who use vibrators to achieve sexual arousal and/or orgasm. They have issues with women whose sole sorce of orgasm comes from clitoral stimulation (oral, tactile, using an object like a vibrator, etc).

It demeans the use of their penis. The penis *IS* their sexual organ and is the biological opposite of the vagina (so to speak). There seems to be a very deep insecurity in men with regards to the fact that women aren't just ORGASM MACHINES like men are. That we take time, patience, and practice to get things right.

It's almost as if they're jealous of the power of the clitoris, and how it will NOT bow to the allmighty power of the penis. They say they don't care if their partner doesn't have an orgasm, or if she fakes it, but they DO. THey feel defeated, less manly if the all mighty aggressive penis cannot force orgasm from a woman. To know the clitoris is to understand that a woman IS different from a man in almost a higher-intellectual way.

I've known men who have had an orgasm during the plain light of day just because a breeze hit them the wrong way, or they rubbed against a bench in a certain way. They take no prodding, no cajoling, no tenderness. Erection + stimulation = orgasm.

As powerful as they see the penis, it's really rather weak. It's like a child that gets excited over the sight of a mound of candybars and at the same time ignores the mound of $20 bills next to it. They're excited by the simple things. They can have an orgasm with little or no effort. The penis is a simple creature with little to no selectivity. They are jealous of the clitoris and how it holds higher power over our orgasm than the penis does.

Just some random rambling on a wednesday afternoon.

[efhmc]

5. You know, you are really an amazing person and intellect. You wrote

to the core and heart of this matter with verve and insight and extordinary thoughtfulness. I am blown away.

[Heddi]

6. Thanks :)

I'm feeling psychological lately b/c in addition to the nursing classes I take during the school year, I'm taking 2 psychology classes online this summer so I'm alll about the psychology these days :)

check out my online journal if you'd like. It's got alot of the same stuff I post here, but more...er...freer with my thoughts in some cases

http://www.livejournal.com/users/heddi/

[efhmc]

7. You will never know how much I hate country music. The bank I use for

the ranch (remember I am in Texas) has it on now as its "hold music". I have complained every time I have called. Well actually I have asked nicely for them to mute it or do something, anything for my ears not to be attacked by it. I have not called the big daddies (and of course they are all men in charge there} but it is getting ready to happen. We have used this bank for about 75 years or so so I think I will be listened to. I like your site.

[Misunderestimator]

8. Wow! What a great post!

[Hello_Kitty]

9. You have described something very crucial

That's the whole basis, IMO, of the idea that men are supposedly more 'sexual' while women are more 'emotional' or whatever. Our more complex sex organs require more stimulation and consideration for pleasure and many men can't or won't deal with that. Therefore the entire concept of sex got totally defined by men to mean intercourse.

Notice how all the stuff that gets most women off is described as "foreplay", meaning it can be dispensed with easily. As a result, many women are faced with the choice of either deriving as much pleasure as they can from intercourse (not that it isn't pleasurable - just not nearly as much as it usually is for the man. OR, and this what I think many women do without realizing it, she can focus on the emotional aspects of the relationship. It's kinda like those cognitive dissonance experiments where psychologists found that people who weren't paid to do a tedious and boring task were more likely to act like they enjoyed the experience than people who were paid, who would freely acknowledge that the task was dull. That just reminded me of that famous scene in "Klute" where Jane Fonda stops to look at her watch as she's thrashing and moaning with her john.

That's what I think accounts for the supposed disparity in the desire for sex between men and women. I think women have as much desire for sexual pleasure as men but a lot of women are expected to get it from guys who have no clue that what gives them pleasure doesn't do the same for women. And many women still don't realize it either so they don't even know to ask the guys. I realize I'm not breaking any new ground here. Gloria Steinem went over this very well in her famous article in Ms. years ago, with her feisty answer to Freud and his theories of "immature" clitoral orgasms vs. "mature" vaginal ones.

Anyway, another great post, Heddi. You knocked it out of the park with that one. :yourock:

[spooky3]

10. The most disappointing thing to me in the sexism I see at DU is

that so much of it appears to be posted by YOUNG men. (I realize we don't always have a clue as to the age of the poster or that I may assume wrongly.) I had really begun to believe that years of consciousness raising, progress in the workforce, more families where both parents had full-time jobs, etc., etc., would have greatly reduced the level of sexism in this generation vs. earlier ones. But there are way too many who still DON'T GET IT.

[MuseRider]

11. As long as they do not have

to get it they will not get it. Some may actually get it but since they do not have to act like they do then they will not.

[smirkymonkey]

12. I know. Let's send them all to Iraq.

Kidding. I don't think we should be in Iraq.

But lets send them somewhere all by themselves and far, far away from women.

[spooky3]

13. LOL!