Should weight acceptance be a feminist issue?

[Finder]

I do believe body image is a feminist issue as we fight together to get the media to stop portraying anorexic type figures as the bar for beauty.

Since joining this group I have been soaking up different philosophies in feminism--postmodernism as well as postfeminist movements--and although I still find much of it confusing and some quite trivial the term "weight acceptance" keeps popping up.

As I have stated before, I am pro healthy weight regardless of what size the individual happens to wear but the idea that obesity to the detriment of an individual's health should be fought for seems off the wall.

Am I missing something here?

[Warpy]

1. Weight is not a will power issue.

Yes, people who are overweight can starve themselves down to what is considered a healthy weight. However, over 90% of them will regain all that weight (and more)within 5 years.

That is a dismal statistic and shows that we don't have a treatment for obesity, not one that works long term. We generally don't know the cause, either. We just know that will power isn't sufficient to overcome it. Even the surgeries are only temporary and the weight is regained.

It therefore becomes a civil rights issue since it's really out of the control of the obese person. It's exactly the same as discrimination on the basis of skin color.

The problem is that the young and naturally thin don't quite make the connection, and continue to oppress overweight people in every area, but most especially in the areas of work and reward.

[Finder]

3. But "overweight" and "obese" are not exactly the same...

as far as I am concerned. The term overweight is subjective--if you use the ridiculous body charts online especially. Obese--as far as I know--is when the individual is put at risk because of the weight.

I was not aware there wasn't a cure for obesity--I would have imagined exercise, eating healthy and perhaps therapy(for those that have an eating disorder)would address it. I guess I will google for further info.

If obesity is a disease it should definitly be a cause for the the disabilities movement but not a specifically feminist issue.(although all discrimination is an issue to us)

[Misunderestimator]

5. Wow...

"I was not aware there wasn't a cure for obesity--I would have imagined exercise, eating healthy and perhaps therapy(for those that have an eating disorder)would address it. I guess I will google for further info."

You would have imagined, eh? So, you've never heard of any overweight people who cannot "cure" their obesity in those ways? That's surprising, given how much information is out there. Google's a good idea.

[Finder]

7. "overweight people"

and obese are different. As I have stated and I am sure we all agree society's/the media's view of what is overweight is a prob. As Senior Citizen states being overweight does not mean being unhealthy--I agree with that.

Perhaps it is the term "obese" that is causing me pause. The term is a medical one and surpasses the term "overweight."

[Misunderestimator]

8. Yes overweight and obese are not the same... but

that was not the point of my post at all. My intention was to point out your condescension... in the way you pretend that you are unaware that exercise and eating right is not the "cure" for all obese persons. It's a much bigger issue than that. But... frankly, you really should post the same thing in the fat acceptance group. I think it might be better addressed there for you.

[Finder]

9. I wasn't trying to be condescending...

and apologize if I said anything offensive.

[Misunderestimator]

12. I didn't take offense at all...

but I'm sure there are some who would... rightfully. So, thanks.

[Warpy]

16. Overweight becomes obesity through DIETING

I know that seems illogical, but every time we lose weight, our bodies insist on putting it back and adding extra because it knows damned full well we'll try to lose it again.

That's the other dirty secret of the dieting industry.

[Finder]

19. The dieting industry seems to prey...

on women especially. I myself dabbled with dexatrim(sp?) back in the 70s. I think there is a difference between "dieting" and "diet fads" though. I do agree that unhealthy dieting affects metabolism but not sure if I would go as far as to say it causes obesity.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. Weight acceptance as it relates to women

As you stated in your post, we need to continue to fight the ridiculously thin standard of beauty. It causes unhealthy eating habits and eating disorders in women. Ironically, constant dieting eventually causes some women to become obese as the result of their metabolisms going awry.

As for fat acceptance itself, there are about as many men as women who are obese (at least in the U.S.) and while I sympathize with anyone who has to contend with peoples' stupid attitudes, I don't think fat males face quite the same condemnation as females. So I don't see it as a feminist issue per se, but it becomes one when women bear the brunt of the discrimination, socially and in the job market.


As for the health issue, that's between the woman and her doctor. I have no way of looking at a particular woman and discerning whether she has health problems and if they are caused by her weight. It's not my area of expertise so I call myself neutral on that. Which is probably the best policy for feminists to observe with regard to that.

[Finder]

4. True

Obesity is a problem in society--I see more males than females or at least notice more.

Good point on obese males having it easier--I bet that is key.

[alarcojon]

31. Great points

First, the lack of weight acceptance rampant in our society is a major contributing factor (along with the relentless advertising premised on thinness as desirable) to eating disorders. These disorders overwhelmingly affect women, which alone makes this a feminist issue IMO.

Keep in mind that the advertising is targeted overwhelmingly to women and, even more troublingly, to teen-age (and even younger) girls.

Yes, obese males will face some oppression, but not nearly as much as obese females. And males who are slightly overweight face little stigma, while women in the same condition are constantly being told they must lose weight to be okay. And I would wager that overweight men face far less job discrimination than overweight women. Another reason this is a feminist issue.

I also agree with you that we should leave weight/health issues to the woman and her doctor. However, we should bear in mind that the medical profession is not devoid of discriminatory attitudes about weight. No sector of society is.

[Senior citizen]

6. Standards of beauty change

from place to place and from century to century. That's a good clue that they are artificial. In this case I think we can even say that they are "man-made."

Apart from health issues, which are strictly personal, I do think that weight acceptance is a feminist issue, primarily because the diet corporations are making billions from females who are perfectly healthy but have been conned into worrying about their weight.

I suspect that dieting, particularly fad diets and commercial diets, might endanger a person's health more than being overweight does.

I'm overweight myself, and every two or three years I'll get the flu or some other illness, not be able to eat much, and lose all those excess pounds. I then have to work very hard to gain them back, as I consider them my health insurance policy.

[chicaloca]

10. I always find it interesting and sad....

that in most cultures, the standard of beauty for women is exactly what's most unattainable in that culture. In the U.S., where we have super-sized food portions, poor public transportation (hence less walking) and 20 types of every fatty snack on the market, women are expected to be thin. In some African countries, where food is often scarce, women are beautiful if they're bigger. In East Asia, long legs and European eyelids are all the rage. :grr:

[Finder]

11. "Grass is greener" syndrome. n/t

[spooky3]

14. this is not a popular opinion but I'll voice it anyway

disclaimer: I agree that there is some degree of personal responsibility/accountability in weight management.

I think a primary contributor to US overweight problems is the unfettered advertising industry. We are constantly bombarded by "eat this" and "drink this" messages. If these messages did not work (i.e., didn't influence people to eat and drink more) then companies would not pay for them, so you had better believe they do influence people.

These ads are not just on TV; they're in newspapers and magazines, on billboards, on subways and buses, etc. Not only do people go out to eat after seeing them, they may head to the refrigerator even when not hungry, or when they're stressed, because of the subtle or not-so-subtle push.

The contrast between here and a country like France, for example, where you see few such ads and people rarely eat "between meals" is stark. Not surprisingly, while the French eat better than most of us do, they are quite thin, and this is not just because they walk a lot.

[trotsky]

15. I agree with you.

From waking to sleeping we're bombarded with food & drink ads. BK breakfast sandwiches on the radio morning show. "Wendy's is open LATE!" ads while you're watching Leno.

And the foods advertised the most are also the most calorie-heavy, fat-laden, and nutritionally-deficient things imaginable. It takes super willpower to eat healthy in America today.

[Vladimir]

24. Another difference with France, I expect

is that the 35 hour working week leaves people a lot more time to cook instead of eating processed crap...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

37. The French also smoke like fiends, which speeds up the metabolism

[noamnety]

13. I haven't seen anyone argue in support of being overweight

What I've seen people object to are judgments about a person based on weight, or what people should or shouldn't be wearing because of their weight, etc.

Maybe "weight acceptance" could be more awkwardly but correctly phrased as "acceptance of people who are various weights" - or maybe "it's none of your damned business what I weigh."

Being overweight has a stigma attached to it that goes far beyond health issues, and moves into the realm of people being actually offended that you don't meet some magic criteria as a sex object for them - nevermind that you don't even know who they are, let alone WANT to have sex with them. You can see it in the fashion police - "my god, that dress just makes her stomach/butt look huge!"

That's not a comment about her health. It's a judgment that she's dressed inappropriately for society because she's not falling into her prescribed role as sex object.

Look at the way people interact with people that have, for example, anemia. Nobody posts about how gross they are. They treat it as a medical condition that needs management, of course, nothing more, nothing less. They don't feel compelled or entitled to comment on it. "My God, she shouldn't be eating iceberg lettuce in her condition, why doesn't that woman eat spinach?!"

[SemiCharmedQuark]

17. Let's face it, weight acceptance is 99% a women's issue.

Overweight men aren't just accepted in the media, they are exalted. As someone else pointed out, fat men on tv are always married to thin, attractive women.

I think you are missing something. Nobody is arguing that obesity should be celebrated. But you seem to condemn obese people as lazy in this and your other posts throughout the thread. You seem to imply that it is all their fault and if they would just exercise they could be "healthy" too. Already this is a negative view towards someone. Would you take that attitude with smokers? Every smoker you see just needs to quit, they have no willpower? How about alcoholics? Why don't you go tell the addiction group they just need to put some effort in.

[Finder]

18. I condemned nobody.

My post is about feminist issues(mostly referred to in postmodern and postfeminist articles) and whether "weight acceptance" is an actual "feminist issue."

There is a whole movement within the feminist movement that celebrates a woman's right to weigh whatever she damn wants to.
http://largesse.net/Archives/herstory.html

My only qualm is medically obese(which is not just being 50 or 60lbs overweight)is not something to support but to hopefully eradicate(in society for males and females and children)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. For that individual, that's not your call to make, you can't condemn them

for it. From your posts, you imply that it's laziness that results in obesity, and it is wrong for you to assume that.

It's not your duty, nor your right to decide what is right for someone. Again, do you take cigarettes away from people? Do you take away their alcohol?

[Finder]

21. I reread my posts and just don't see...

where I am condemning anyone. I never once used the term lazy nor would I imply such.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. Where you imply that the cure to obesity is "exercise and dieting"

[Finder]

25. not exactly...

I said I imagined it would be addressed by healthy eating, exercise and perhaps therapy(if the cause was an eating disorder)--where the hell you get "cure" or the accusation of "laziness" is beyond me.

Of course by doing a bit of research I learned a lot more about the struggles as well as genetic dispositions.(which I was not aware of)

Some of the treatments are brutal--stomach stapling, jaw wiring, liposuction--it is quite sad.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

26. If all you need to do is exercise and eat healthy, if it were that easy,

that implies that those that are obese aren't willing to do the bare minimum to save themselves.

But as you go on to say, that is not the end of the story.

[geniph]

22. There's a difference between acceptance

and encouragement. I think that's where the semantical problems are coming in on this. Weight acceptance is not encouraging people to become obese, or remain obese. It is accepting them as equal participants in life whatever size they happen to be. I've never met an obese woman who didn't KNOW she was overweight. I have, however, met several obese men who thought they were Brad Pitt. :eyes:

[Nikia]

27. This issue is personal for me

I have developed an eating disorder, anorexia. The truth is that I devloped it much earlier in my life, but went into remission when I took up running and discovered that severe food restriction and being a good runner were incompatible for me and that being a good runner added much to my self esteem. I have had problems over the past year and my eating disorder re emerged. Since I have acknowledged my problem, I am seeing a therapist and attending a group.
What I find interesting about the group is that they are all very driven women who value achievement to the point of perfection. Society tells women that to be perfect, we must be thin. Of course we hear the thin=healthy rhetoric, but many women in the weight loss commercials were not too overweight if at all to begin with, and are encouraged to get to a weight that is borderline healthy for many of them. Weight loss, as descibed in many women's magazines, seems to be the solution to a happy life. For me and these other women I know, it is just the opposite. It is an evil addiction with encouragement all around us. Our condition is a logical conclusion to advertising and the messages that are sent to us.
Recovery is tough. I still have all these messages in my head "thin is good". It is all around me. Food and weight are things that one has to deal with everyday. It isn't something that you can just stay away from.
I have both lean and heavy people in my history. Although one of the long lived lines, seems to have the thin genes, my overweight relatives don't do horribly healthwise either. If I allow myself to eat healthy, I could become overweight and could expect to live to my 70's or 80's. If I don't get this eating disorder under control, I might not even live to half that. Weight is a health issue and it might turn out that I am better off heavy.
Why is weight acceptance a feminist issue? Women who are medically underweight are told how good they look. Many women who aren't even mendically overweight are told that they are fat. Men who are of healthy weight and overweight are not encouraged to lose weight. I think that this is why there are many more female anorexics than male anorexics.

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. I am conflicted here... in that

the objectifying of women worries me, I want women to be able to own their sexuality and revel in it, and I believe in free speech. And somehow those don't all work together and come to an easy compromise in my mind. (Ban porn? Force celebs in the media to dress in a more seemly manner? Pretend sexuality doesn't exist.)

What does this have to do with weight acceptance? Well for myself I have had a horrible self-esteem and body image for years and oddly enough one thing that has helped me to come to terms (well am not all the way there yet) with my non-Victoria's Secret body are plump and old time pinups.

So on the one hand the subjects of the pictures can be considered to be objectifying themselves.. but at the same time I love being able to see the thighs that touch at the top, the cellulite, the breasts that aren't gravity-defying grapefruits.


Anyway, I can't claim being right or wrong in this matter. Just thought I would mention the thoughts that weigh on my mind on this subject.. no pun intended.

[eridani]

29. Exercise and better diets have the same effect on "obese"--

people as they do "overweight" people, or for that matter people at acceptable chart weights. The usual end result is fat people who are healthier and weigh somewhat less.

Bottom line is that fat people serve the social fuction of giving everyone else someone to look down on. Goes for fat people too, most of whom at least occasionally see people who inspire them to think "Well, at least I'm not THAT fat."

You can decide to exercise more and to eat healthier. You have absolutely zero, zilch, nada control over what changes you new program has on your body. None whatsoever. Therefore harassing people about their weights, no matter what that weight is, is not help--it's abuse, pure and simple. And it's about as effective as hollering "Make more insulin, dammit!" at diabetics.

And yes, since the abuse is mainly directed at women, fuck yes it's a feminist issue! They can't legally use your sex against you, so now it's some bullshit about the "health" effects of your weight. And if for some maintaining a "normal" weight requires the equivalent of a permanent part time job (10-20 hrs/week workouts and related point A to point B travel time), then they just won't have time to take classes or do extra work for professional advancement.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. Does your pro-health position give you a right to belittle others?

Just wondering what pro-health has to do with accepting another just as they are. :shrug:

[ismnotwasm]

32. I believe so

It is part of the larger feminist issue, the constant sexualization of women. The barbie doll standards. Although weight issues cross genders, and anyone who is overweight can suffer, I believe there is more pressure on women to appear in a way that is sexually acceptable to men, then the reverse. That is part of the reason the overwhelming cases of anorexia and bulimia are women. The difference is clearer in humor or pornography. If you see a man with a "beer belly" well the guys may joke and tease, but it's all in good fun. You see a women who's a size 15, you get very cruel 'beached whale' jokes. The realm of is morbid obesity is almost a separate issue, although pornographic images of the morbidly obese on the internet are almost all women. I've seen way too many complications health wise in both men and women with this disorder. Gastric-bypass surgery, really an act of desperation, can have horrible post-surgical complications. Even if it corrects the obesity initially, even that drastic step is not always successful in the long-term. I too am pro healthy weight, but I understand that there are different body types and what is healthy and comfortable for me is not going to be so for another.

[eleny]

33. Did you see the new Dove soap campaign?

It's really cool. http://www.dove.com/default.asp

[Hello_Kitty]

34. Did you read what this asshole wrote about it?

Maybe we should start a campaign to get Roeper off the Ebert and Roeper Show. Because I don't know about you, but I'd much rather see hotties with washboard abs and under the age of 30 giving me movie reviews than his tired aging wanna-be hipster ass. What do you all think?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep19.html

Chunky women in their underwear have surrounded my house.

Billboards of chunky women, that is. If you've been downtown lately, you've no doubt noticed the ads for Dove soap, featuring regular-sized women in bras and panties. It's part of a nationwide "Campaign for Real Beauty," and it's drawing waves of attention from the media...


Now here's where I'm supposed to say that I find it refreshing to see "real people" on billboards, given that our culture is so obsessed with youth and beauty, and that most billboards feature impossibly gorgeous, ridiculously thin women who have been airbrushed to a level of perfection that 99.9 percent of the population can never reach.

But the raw truth is, I find these Dove ads a little unsettling. If I want to see plump gals baring too much skin, I'll go to Taste of Chicago, OK? I'll walk down Michigan Avenue or go to Navy Pier. When we're talking women in their underwear on billboards outside my living room windows, give me the fantasy babes, please.

If that makes me sound superficial, shallow and sexist -- well yes, I'm a man. And I'll have to point out that most of the men who appear on billboards and in magazines and on TV commercials are just as genetically blessed as their female counterparts.

(snip)

[ismnotwasm]

35. I just emailed him

Just said that billboard perusing isn't really my personal thing, so I didn't understand why is he looking at ones that bother him. Then I suggest he may be attracted to "chunky" women billboards, since he evidently has noticed so many. Kept it short and sweet, told him the commentary was a waste of writing space. What an idiot.

[Heddi]

36. Similar letter in Seventeen Magazine:

I posted this in the FA forum, but I guess it's appropriate here too:

Okay--firstly, I'm not seventeen. Not by a decade and a few years.

But I got a subscription to Seventeen recently for free. I'll read it, then donate it to either the local hospital or put in the student lounge at my school (I also get other mags for free like PopScience, Psychology today, etc...all are gotten primarly so that I can donate them to the hospital, etc).

So I got my first two issues of 17 the other day and was leafing through and was really amazed at how much the magazine had changed since I was 17. THey actually SHOW larger sized girls and clothes that are approrpriate for them. The section is called "What Clothes are Right For My Body Type" and they have just regular 'girls' ranging in size from 0 to 18. The best part is that these gals aren't shown in the dark mu-mu's with large flowers and bows at the neck. THey're in short denim skirts, tank-tops---the same clothes shown for the skinnier gals. So I think that's definitely a positive thing for overweight and larger-sized girls--it IS okay to wear things that show legs and arms and curves. You do NOT have to hide behind jeans and turtle-necks in the middle of summer (Note: The Front of the Magazine still lures in readers with proclaimations like: Get The Best Butt in 10 Days and Sexy Swimsuits For This Summer).

So this was a letter to the editor in the July 2005 issue. I was just appaled by the letter and suggest that we ALL write letters refuting this young ignorant girl and her statements. Here it is:

BIG ISSUES

I think your effort to include all cultures, races, and religions is great, and I applaud you for it. But I have to disagree with you recent emphasis on clothes for obese/overweight girls. It's really disgusting that America as a whole endorses being overweight as acceptable, and I really don't know why a magazine like yours that addresses healthy eating would continue to show clothes for overweight girls. I love your sections on what to wear for different body types, but being fat is not a body type--it can be changed with diet and exercise. No one (rare medical cases aside) is born fat, like you can be born petite or curvy. These girls need to stop getting angry when magazines don't show clothes for them--they need to see that they are not the normal, healthy ones. I, for one, hate seeing overweight girls get special treatment from magazines when many girls like myself work hard to eat right and stay fit

Caitlin, 16, Wildwood, IL

What do you think of this month's issue? Tell us at www.seventeen.com/mail

[Hello_Kitty]

38. I feel sorry for Caitlin

A 16 year old talks about how she "works hard to eat right and stay fit". She sounds 40, for god's sake. And I'm picturing her pinch-faced mother right now... "Caitlin! You're not going to have another cookie are you? You don't want to have to shop at Lane Bryant do you?" They probably have matching treadmills in their basement. I could be wrong about the mother, but far too often that's where they get it from.

And she has no idea how her life will turn out. Wonder what she'll be saying 10 years from now if she's a hundred lbs. heavier. :shrug:

[Bunny]

40. "...like you can be born petite or curvy."

Really, Caitlin? You can be born curvy? Now THAT's what I call premature puberty!

I too feel sorry for Caitlin. It's a shame that someone that young is so judgemental - could she be a future Stepford Wife?

[ismnotwasm]

41. So, what's generally shown in magazines is "normal and healthy"

I think not, young one. I emailed them too.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

39. Ugh. I sent that link to my mom.

She had heard something about it but no specifics. I think we should work hard to spread this. Let's get that pig fired.