Sexual Harassment in the workplace.

[Ripley]

Who really believes men don't know what "crosses the line?"

When I worked for a large auto corporation, one of my positions was in the training and development center. The diversity classes were very simple, dumbed down explanations about what is not acceptable. Every associate had to take the class. Yet plenty of harassment went on.

They had an EEOC office (one male manager and one female staff) to handle the cases for thousands of employees. I personally knew the manager and liked him until one day at lunch he dismissed someone's case because she was "fat and ugly and who would want that?"

Basically they had a three strikes and out program, and my immediate supervisor was fired. But not because of me. He was harassing a woman he had worked with out on the line. Yet, because he was fired while being my super, every male in my department treated me like shit and spread rumors we had slept together and I had "changed my mind." I only found out about this when another female manager told me.

While I was in the auto industry I met a couple of really freaky women. On a business trip dinner once, one brought up liking the taste of semen. Yep, there are women out there like that (who say such things in the company of co-workers they don't know personally).

But harassment laws are pretty explicit: Do not touch, do not talk about your (alleged) sex life, do not talk about porn, do not make sexually explicit jokes or pass around sexually explicit pictures, etc.

Now the comeback I always hear from guys is that there is a female in the workplace who likes it and encourages that behavior.

Well, wake the fuck up little snoozy, THAT AIN'T SEXUAL HARASSMENT THEN IS IT?

It's harassment when you (or she, for that matter) take that shit to someone at your workplace who is not interested in your obsession with sex. Yes, women can be busted for sexual harassment. And didn't that nice movie (Disclosure) by some slick best-selling author make it seem as though women do this as often as men?

And the biggest thing you whiney men's rights activists don't get is this: I'll lay it out for you. Women sexually harassed at work incur multiple problems from this...depression, fear, and pressure to give in to get promoted. How many MALES FEEL THAT WHEN SOME WOMAN SHOWS THEM A SEXUALLY EXPLICIT PICTURE? Huh? Any?

Stalking at work is not fun. I've endured it.

My advice to those who think they don't understand sexual harassment? It's the same line for date rape or any other assaults on women...
Imagine your Mom or sister or wife or girlfriend in that position. Then tell me how it is too hard, waaaaah, too hard to understand what is appropriate behavior in the work place.

Fuckers.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. I think many young women fail to grasp the gravity of the situation.

There have been two examples of sexual harassment at my workplace that I am aware of. The first involved a guy grabbing a girl's butt. He was given a warning. He should have been fired. But the girl did not pursue it, she just laughed it off as a "oh, he's just weird" kind of thing.

The second thing was a man who took our female manager's phone number and posted it outside with a "For A Good Time Call XXX-XXXX". Again, he was warned, but not fired.

[Heddi]

2. About 6 years ago, my husband and I worked for the same company

We met before I even worked there and once we were dating, I got a job there. (That's beside the point, but just explaining).

I was a sales assistant at the time, and my boss was an amicable enough fellow.

Well, one day, just out of the blue, he would come to my cubicle to talk to me and start rubbing my shoulders :wtf:

Well the first time I was really caught off guard...I thought "what the fuck is this shit all about?" and I found a reason to get out of my chair and do...something else.

A few days later, hands on shoulders again.

Then a few days later. Then the next day.

And it was during working hours. My cubbie was right across from another worker's desk who could sit right in her chair and see what was going on. He'd do this in front of people, and I was embarassed and ashamed. I SHOULD say something, but what do I say? Not only is *MY* job at risk, but my boyfriend's as well.

It was creepy and I hated it. I mentioned my uncomfortablity with this to another coworker (female) and she just shrugged it off and said, "oh that's the kind of guy Bill is. He's done it to everyone. Hell, he's probably only doing it so he can look down your blouse ha ha ha" and walked off.

I told my boyfriend (now husband) about it, and he suggested I complain and complain loudly. But I was afraid.

I ended up leaving the job shortly thereafter to go to school full time. About 3 years later, I returned to work there, and Bill had been promoted and wasn't my boss anymore.

Now, I wonder WHY THE HELL didn't I file a complaint? Well, I rationalize that by saying "I was poor, my boyfriend was poor, and we had the best paying jobs in town, and would have been reduced to making $5.15 an hour had I spoken out".

That doesn't make it any better though, and I've never let anything like that go unchallenged again.

--

I have found that THE most irritating thing about Sexual Harassment (much like mysogony) is the LENGTHS people will go through to just 'explain it away' or rationalize the behaviour.

I've heard everything from:

it's in your head
you're overreacting
you're making too much out of a little thing
oh, come on, he didn't mean it that way
Oh, I'd take THAT as a compliment

etc etc

And I agree with you about vile and vulgar women in the workplace. I've had to work with them and have had to tell my share of women to KEEP IT TO YOUR FUCKING SELF. I don't CARE about your sexlife. I don't CARE how deep you can take it. I don't CARE how many guys you've fucked in the last week. I DON'T FUCKING CARE.

I think alot of women (at least the one's I've had to deal with that are like this) have the "MUST ACT LIKE A MAN TO SUCCEED IN MARKETING" attitude. You know--they pretty much would wear a fake phallus to work if they thought it could get them ahead at work (no pun intended). THey're the ones that do everything they can to emulate the men they work for, with, and around, as if that would make these men FORGET that these women are, you know, women, and instead mistake them for 'one of the boys'.

They were also the ones that, as much as they tried to act like men (read: act like assholes to everyone around them), they were also the tall leggy faux blondes with fake boobs and 4 inch heels. They wanted it both ways---they wanted to use their sexuality to get that sales deal, or to make promotion AT THE SAME TIME, they felt that acting assholish and vulgar and vile would get them the same sales deal or promotion. It was a strange dichotomy. UberFemale on the outside, priggish male on the inside

:shrug:

[Ripley]

3. You tell long stories. But they're good!

You know--they pretty much would wear a fake phallus to work if they thought it could get them ahead at work (no pun intended).

I remember being put in the backseat of a rental car by a female who wanted to sit up front and show her underwear beneath her miniskirt next to the driver who was our Boss. When the work got done at the site, she was still showing herself off and no one paid any attention to her. I don't get it or her.

[Warpy]

6. I always found "Take your hands off AT ONCE" through

clenched teeth to be effective. No, I never went along to get along, and I'm sure I've suffered losses of propmotions and raises because of it. Piggy men also seem to have a radar that tells them I'm not going to play nice and pretend it isn't happening, too, so it hasn't happened much.

It's a tradeoff for women. You can tell these bastards where that line is, or you can get ahead. I preferred to live in poverty and be able to look at myself in the mirror. Other women may choose the other route, and I know better than to criticise them for it, even though it made my life tougher.

[geniph]

10. Heddi, I have to tell you what I did in a similar situation

I did NOT do this on purpose, nor do I actually advocate it, but it actually worked quite well.

A little background - I'm the youngest of 13, with 7 older brothers. I HATE having people stand behind me, come up behind me, or touch me unexpectedly. I cannot be responsible for my reflexive reaction when startled in that manner.

I had just taken a women's self-defense course. One of the things they'd taught us is how to break a chokehold when applied from behind. Well, this fellow at work did not know either of the above things, apparently, because he got it into his head that it'd be a good idea to come up behind me and put his hands on my shoulders.

I bloodied his nose.

I didn't mean to. Really, I didn't. It was a combination of startle reflex and the recent training - I suddenly stood and shot both arms up between my body and his arms, dislodging his grip and incidentally making contact with his nose.

I still don't know what in the holy hell he was thinking, to do that. I can assure you no one I worked with in that job ever thought of touching me without my express permission ever again.

[Ripley]

4. Feminazi.

Not right

[geniph]

5. Some people are so clueless that it's utterly staggering

When I worked for Large-Unnamed-Aircraft-Manufacturer-in-Seattle, all employees were required to take classes in sexual harassment and diversity. One of the things taught in the diversity class was to basically that it was verboten to attack people's sexual orientation - no "fag" jokes, no "queer-bashing," etc. (You'd think people wouldn't have to be told that doing that is not only rude, but against the rules in the workplace, but I digress.)

Anyway, one of the instructors of one of the diversity classes was a gay man, and during the course, he usually mentioned that fact and talked about his family - his partner, their children, etc. Well, at one class, two of the guys apparently took objection to the fact that this "queer" was "promoting his lifestyle" and followed him out to the parking lot and offered to kick his ass for him unless he stopped talking about being gay.

Um. Unclear On The Concept, Exhibit One.

[Hello_Kitty]

7. Testify!

Oh my god, if I had a dime for every guy who bewailed the fact that there are sexual harassment policies because "I just can't say anything anymore!" I could retire early. And it's bullshit because the guys I work with still pretty much say whatever the hell they want. Only now they'll preface their demeaning comments with "Umm, I know it's not politically correct to say this but...blah blah insert sexist unoriginal and not-funny comment or joke" or they'll apologize quickly afterwards. Other than that, women are still contemptible objects on which to project their hatred and misogyny.

As a woman, you can't win. If you tolerate the shitty comments, or even exhibit mild amusement at them you're "cool", which would be okay except that the really clueless guys will take that as an invitation to see just how far they can push the envelope with you. If you object to the behavior, you are labelled an overly sensitive prude and a killjoy. Ironically, it's actually more effective for a male employee to object to crudeness. I've worked with guys who didn't care for profanity or the denigration of women (kudos to them!) and let the other guys know it. Their wishes are respected immediately. But it sucks that women, who are the actual targets of the behavior are routinely dismissed and trivialized when we complain.

And to the lurking mens' righters: Yes, jokes and comments ARE a big deal. Remember how you think we're "bashing" you because we criticize certain male behaviors and aspects of culture on this board. Just imagine having to listen to nasty and belittling comments 8 - 10 hours a day. Not to mention being stared at, gossiped about, and even stalked. You probably couldn't handle it.

[geniph]

9. When someone makes a comment I find inappropriate,

I have a habit of staring coldly at them as though they were an alien pubic hair in my salad. It tends to make them shut up and go away quickly. Never laugh or smile at a joke you think is demeaning, just stare at the person after they tell it. Eventually even the stupidest person will get the hint and go away.

[Hello_Kitty]

11. I do that too

It makes them visibly uncomfortable, and yes, they do get the hint.

[jmm]

8. You know it's our fault for tempting them

About a year ago I had a problem with a co-worker that got so bad he stole my phone number and called me up late at night (from a company Nextel) insisting I was his girl and asking what I was wearing. Only after I was able to provide proof of the call and a male co-worker witnessed his inappropriate behavior was serious action taken. As upset as I was by what he did I was even more heated at the way other staff members, even women, reacted. I had people tell me I should expect it because I'm pretty, he could help me advance, he made great money, etc. I'd just reply that if I wanted to sleep with a man for money I wouldn't be working there I'd be in a brothel or what would they do if he did that to their mom.