Thoughts?

[redqueen]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8194340

[redqueen]

1. Criminy.

I never knew before how many people thought that just because something about abortion included any form of the word 'choice', that that automatically means it must therefore be pro-choice.

:crazy:

[ismnotwasm]

2. Just more bullshit

I understand we're human, and therefore suffer from the 'human condition' This condition has many contradictions and dichotomies, most patriarchal in nature. People want to emotionalize the fetus, emotionalize the 'family'; which incidentally usually means the falsely constructed male-ego based 'nuclear family' rather than an extended family that includes, youngers and elders as well as communities themselves.

So when I see things like that, I'm merely reminded that the 'human condition' seems to enjoy ignoring history, ignores logical facts out of self interest, despite obvious human suffering. As long as women are the sex class, as long as women are denied reproductive rights, as long as we constantly recreate the 'other' our society will remain twisted and malformed and never reach it's potential, and quite possibly destroy itself. Reproductive rights are that important. Denying them, either out of emotional sentiment or some moral certainly is one of the most destructive social forces I know

I'm reading a book called "Dirt"--it's about soil erosion, and how soil erosion drove history. And how to this day, soil erosion is a major problem and a disaster waiting to happen. Soil erosion led to entire civilizations to collapse from lack of food. Has been behind wars. Helped develop what we see as human hierarchies, or class systems. Human atrocities like US slavery had a parasitic relationship with it. Poor, profit driven farming techniques repeating themselves, over and over since civilization began. One of the things that it talks about is increased food production equals increased population. While I'm reading it, I think of the huge numbers of women who died in childbirth, healthy enough to survive to deliver, but not birth itself. I think of the infant mortality rate, I think of how many children didn't grow to adulthood.

Then I think why the hell didn't these people stop breeding? Women, who who were considered 'barren' weren't as valuable. Women were expected to die. Birth control, though the ages was spotty and dangerous. (Although there are sexual techniques that work, we have shame based sex thanks to the main patriarchal religions) Perhaps the patriarchy driven societies (there is no proof of any matriarchies, only matrilinier ancestry) needed to degrade women to ignore the painful fact that they may not survive the first pregnancy.

I'm rambling, I know, but any attitude that denies abortion as a choice or offers it as a choice with a negative judgment value is as I said, just more bullshit.

[redqueen]

3. I just can't stop being surprised at the number of people here

who equivocate on this kind of stuff.

[ismnotwasm]

4. I know, that's exactly it.

They stretch the logic regarding the right of a woman to choose until it becomes something else. Then many don't seem to realize what that type of thinking is doing. It's irritating and dangerous.

[bliss_eternal]

5. Flame-bait....

. Seriously. ...and as ismnotwasm said, bullshit--for all the reasons she stated. But mostly, flamebait.

Someone less interested in discussion (or the actual issue at hand) and primarily interested in pushing buttons and being controversial for the sake of seeing exactly who they upset, (and how they manage to upset them). They take notes, and tend to (coincidentally) create threads on similar topics later, to incite similar responses. I've got several people who I realized (a little too late) were guilty of this, on ignore.

[BlueIris]

6. Total flamebait.

Mostly because it implies the objective of most "pro-lifers" is to reduce abortions, instead of abuse women.

[bliss_eternal]

7. thank you.

i totally agree. unfortunately, there's a lot of deluded people on this board that clearly don't get that. (sigh).