Burly-q, performance art, etc. --Is it feminism...?

[bliss_eternal]

I haven't seen this discussed here before, and I've wondered how members here feel about this.

I'm going to present the information about this, the way I've seen it portrayed and discussed. These are not my thoughts and/or opinions on the issue merely the way I've seen the issue portrayed in the media by those that participate. I'll also provide some links for reference.

Some may be aware that several years ago, young women resurrected burlesque--the classic form of "striptease". They claimed this was their response to modern day strip clubs. An attempt at putting the "tease" back in the "strip." It went from a small, underground scene to something much larger. Some called it performance art. Some termed it "feminism." Young women of various shapes and sizes started "taking it off."

Some links:

Burlesque Comeback Tries to Dance With Feminism:
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2099/context/archive

Profile of New York's "scene" in 2001:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9407E4DC113EF936A15756C0A9659C8B63

A feminist blogger shares her thoughts on it:
http://angryforareason.blogspot.com/2006/01/bootylicious-burlesque.html

So what are your thoughts? Feminist? Or not? ...why or why not?

[Katherine Brengle]

1. No, because it can't be.

I say this because the fundamental power imbalance has not been corrected yet. Because women are still the sex class and men are still the power class.

As long as women are the sex class, they really cannot function in a sexual context (such as stripping in this instance) without perpetuating their second class status.

It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

I see this as just another "sex positive" pseudo-feminism, ignoring the power imbalance and thinking that we can take advantage of it, which is a fallacy imo.

[ismnotwasm]

2. What you said

I remember a show on a very talented burlesque stripper. She was very good at what she did and made a lot of money, in demand all over the country. One of the things I found interesting, is that she delighted in humilating the men watching her, ie tearing their shirts, pouring beer on their heads. She is one of those who would insist that she was "empowered", yet had this odd aggression. I found her angry for all her talent. I wonder way? Not.

Anyway, sex work is sex work is sex work. The fact that "pole dancing", or burlesque classes are available is just another way to bullshit women accepting sex class status, and confusing it with empowerment.

My favorite archive from Twistyfaster ( I always try to bring it out when a topic like this comes up)


"When you’re already oppressed, it is, in fact, impossible to volunteer for oppression. A woman is a member of the sex class whether she “chooses” it or not. This pre-existing condition forms the backdrop to any fun feminist’s conclusion that her compliance with the patriarchal sexbot mandate is voluntary. She may believe otherwise, but her belief does not alter the fact that patriarchy — a social order predicated on an oppression to which she is already subject — is real and in effect and entirely beyond any unrestricted control she may wish to exert and only too glad to welcome her as a team player and sign her up for the rewards program.

The fun feminist confuses “empowerment” with the decision to acquiesce. This is understandable; it’s the one actual choice she has in this game: surrender, or stand and fight. She doesn’t have to be Candida Royalle to recognize that if she chooses the latter all she’ll get for her trouble is ridicule, hostility, suspicion, and the threat of bodily harm.

Whereas the rewards for surrender to male porn culture are not inconsiderable: social acceptance, male approval, little psuedo-privileges that accrue according to the degree of one’s conformity, and of course the enormous relief at not having to fight it anymore. The if-you-can’t-beatem-joinem gambit has enjoyed millennia of popularity for good reason. It gives the appearance of the shortest and easiest route to life’s rich pageant. Too bad that, once they get there, chicks are only eligible for the women’s auxiliary"

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/04/28/reader-actually-asks-spinster-aunts-opinion/

[bliss_eternal]

5. Have you heard of this...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_Workers'_Art_Show
(think it originated in the pacific northwest)

I have to be honest, initally I was more than a little intrigued by the burlesque scene. Kind of hard to explain how and why but I watched what they did from afar, with great interest. I'm embarassed to admit that as one that was not well versed in feminism, I bought into a lot of the bs they put out about it being "empowering." (yes, I've since woken up and no longer buy into this--lol).

One day I was showing a friend one of the "performances" on-line, to see if they would be interested in seeing such a show with me. My friend looked completely disgusted and said "...why should we call that art instead of what it really is--glorified stripping? Just because she isn't lap dancing or taking tips doesn't mean she is any less objectified." That made me think. I started seeking out feminist blogs and reading here more.

Coincidentally, I learned about the negative experiences of some women of color in the scene, through the blog entries of a few performers of color. Apparently, they were attacked (by other performers and some 'fans') for speaking out, so these entries are no longer available, or I would try to share some of them here.)

Apparently, the burly-q scene is almost predominately caucasian. As it's grown more women of color have entered it and perform regularly.

Some of the (caucasian) performers took to dressing as various ethnic/racial stereotypes, for their acts. :eyes:
The few people of color in the scene were offended to see caucasian women (and some men) dressed and performing as "stereotypes" they considered hurtful. (i.e. indian "squaws", geishas, black face, "mexican hat dances", etc.) I guess some ran out of other "creative costumes" to remove--so they started mining racial stereotypes :shrug:

(note--I sincerely hope this is coherent--as I'm typing this while a bit out of it.)

[noamnety]

3. I agree.

This quote sums it up well, though it perhaps didn't intend to:

"Burlesque celebrates women of every shape, size and color. It empowers women who are watching because they see an audience appreciating the sexiness of someone who looks a lot like them," says Baldwin.

Woo-hoo! Now ANY woman can be objectified and have a bunch of people stare at their ass! See how empowering it is even for the women in the audience - cause they can look around and see others treating women as sex objects!

That is not my kind of feminism.

[bliss_eternal]

4. LOL! I think you are right...

...that the quote probably didn't intend to support the argument against it. But it does.

[Katherine Brengle]

6. Perfect.