Well, so much for the theory...

[VelmaD]

that we can link to threads from other forums here to co-ordinate a response. *sigh*

I shoulda known I'd get followed back here.

[Senior citizen]

1. Maybe someone can form a mailing list.

I know some email services let you keep lists of people you can email with a single click, but the one I'm using right now does not.

I'm on quite a few action alert lists for various causes. When there is a threat to the environment, reproductive rights, or a zillion other things, I get a nice little email telling me what the problem is and what I can do about it.

If there were an action alert mailing list for any attacks on feminists or threats to equality on DU, I'd be happy to sign up.

[lukasahero]

13. An excellent pro-active suggestion

Thanks SC. I also saw your post below that suggests the PMs instead. Either one of which would work for and be of interest to me. This is the kind of thing I was really hoping we could do in this group: come up with solutions to the problems we see. Thanks for offering one.

:yourock:

[MuseRider]

2. Missed it.

What happened?

[BlueIris]

3. I missed it, too.

I was too preoccupied with the horrors of various topics in GD and GD: Politics today. Ack. Some of those folks need to come hang out with us.

[MuseRider]

4. HA Me too.

I was most likely using my hide a thread feature, been doing that a lot lately just to save my sanity! It took me forever to cull out most of what I consider nonsense. Then we lost that and they all came back so I gave up.

I now have this area to come into to read and get some really good info.

[VelmaD]

5. Oh I got a thread deleted in here...

after a person I was arguing with in GD followed me in here. *sigh*

[MuseRider]

6. I wondered

where that went. I was looking for it earlier but did not put the two together. Too bad. PMs might work better, just sayin in case the opportunity comes again and it will of course.

[VelmaD]

7. I figure I'll just bring it here again and see what happens...

see if it becomes a pattern before taking it to the admins.

[lukasahero]

12. Hi VelmaD

Speaking as an "accessory to the crime" yesterday ;), I gave a lot of thought to the thread being deleted over night and I think I can see why the whole thing was deleted rather than just a few posts. I know that the admins had trouble with this same thing happening in the religious groups and they may be a little gun shy about seeing something even remotely like that starting to happen here.

In light of that, while I certainly do not mean to tell you what to do, I would ask that you consider Senior Citizen's post that is titled "On second thought". She has a couple of good points and one is to consider PMing each other regarding posts in other threads that we think "need attention". The other point that she makes which I think is really valid, is that there are some folks who have come back to DU because of this group but only because they could escape the sexist flames and "gender wars". We may take away that "safe place" for them if we continue to bring the battles to their attention here.

Anyway, it's just my .02 cents. I admired your determination yesterday and do not in anyway mean to belittle that. Just some thoughts...

[VelmaD]

16. Well, if they don't want to get involved...

in the flame wars they don't have to click on the links to them. For my part I will be sure to clearly label them as such if I post links in the future. I just think it's kind of silly not to be able to point out sexist threads from other forums in a feminism group.

[lukasahero]

17. Sorry, I'm an idiot

Senior Citizen has never declared a gender and it was rude of me to use the feminine pronoun as opposed to a gender-neutral pronoun especially in light of the fact that SC has always been so clear in support of eliminating gender-bias in all its forms.

My apologies.

[Eloriel]

18. Wait a minute

This IS safe haven, all Groups are. If anyone doesn't accept the Mission Statement, and that's clear from their posts, they are not allowed to post in that Group, and their posts are deleted.

There is absolutely no reason, IMO, NOT to post here about threads that deserve our attention. If they Skeptics group can do it (and they do), by golly so can we. IF anyone follows us back here and tries to engage in anything other than the most supportive, pro-woman, pro-feminist manner, ALERT the hell outta them, and they'll get deleted and if necessary banned from the Group. Those are the rules re Groups.

I don't want a lot of PMs about this. (I hate PMs.) I think threads here are precisely the right thing. JMO.

[lukasahero]

21. And I was only offering my opinion

Sorry if the suggestion to consider someone else's thoughts on the subject was such a bad idea.

[Eloriel]

22. I certainly didn't mean to offend

If you read my post again as just someone being very direct, I really think you wouldn't find it objectionable.

Look, I don't really care all that much what's done. I just hated the thought that we were going to curtail OUR perfectly okay behavior as a result of others' bad actions and behaviors when there exists a built-in safeguard that makes that totally unnecessary. I was surprised and a bit alarmed at the direction the idea had taken, when -- again -- it ought to be totally unecessary because of the rules here.

:shrug:

[lukasahero]

23. I know

and I did reread your post. I apologize for getting snarky.

[Eloriel]

24. Perfectly okay

Really. And thanks. :hug:

[Senior citizen]

8. On second thought......

Having gotten sucked into a thread full of anti-feminists, and having wasted my time trying to tell them to think with the big head instead of the little head, I'm back to hiding out again.

You know, in my real life I avoid going to certain places because I know I wouldn't feel comfortable. So why shouldn't I do the same in cyberspace?

I have avoided DU for months at a time due to the rampant sexism. Now that there's a safe place, I don't think it should be used to lure me back to the flamefests and circle jerks elsewhere.

I suggest that when something sexist is posted elsewhere on DU, if you happen to see it, alert the mods, explain why it is an attack on or disrespectful towards women, but don't waste time responding to it. You can PM others here who can also check it out and can also alert the mods, but it is a total waste of time to respond to that stuff. Maybe if they don't get the outrage they're demanding, they'll lose interest. I mean, Andrea Dworkin is no longer with us--how long can Dworkin-haters continue violating the corpse if we simply ignore them? Andrea spent a lifetime trying to explain the facts of life. Some of us are grateful, but many people hate Andrea for speaking truth to power. And they'll keep repeating the lies over and over and over so long as we respond.

For some people everything is Bill Clinton's fault, for others it is all Andrea Dworkin's fault. Neither of them really believes it, they just find it useful.

On edit: Since they like putting us on the defensive, maybe it would be a good idea that if we respond at all, we do it in a separate thread. Somebody posts a flamebait lie. So we start a new thread and post the truth. Let them flame away until their thread sinks, but don't encourage them. If they come to the new thread with the lie, we just alert on them and put them on ignore--that is if they aren't already on ignore.

[Solly Mack]

9. Since this forum began - even before that, in it's planning stages

people got their knickers in a wad.

Subtle and not so subtle attacks on women/feminists increased sharply.

There was a lot of fear displayed at the mere mention of a Feminists group.

We can expect these attacks to continue for a while. There will be certain personalities that will now monitor this group, and then they will post in GD some supposedly innocuous topic on feminists (though directly related to whatever they were offended by while reading this forum)...

They'll do this hoping to score points....and because they are too afraid to respond here.

[lukasahero]

10. True but

it's not that they are afraid to post here, it's that they are not allowed to post here (or at least that's the case with what some of them want to post).

I think the first few weeks of this group are going to be interesting as we work out the boundaries and I think we have to be both vigilant and trusting. Contradictory, I know, but I am trying to let my guard down in here (that was the whole point, right?) yet it takes very little for my hackles to raise and suspicions to grow. I hope to temper myself by keeping note of questionable comments but also to not jump to conclusions. I suspect if there is any ill intent it will either be very blatant, or will show itself in an identifiable, recordable pattern over time.

I do believe some will try to "infiltrate" their way in by sounding moderate and gradually becoming more and more extreme (think CL), but in order for this group to remain effective, we have to remain open to all opinions that don't violate the rules. Now, as I see it, one of those rules (or the sentiment contained therein) is thou shalt not talk down to, belittle or ridicule people who disagree with you. I believe that rule was broken yesterday.

[Solly Mack]

15. I missed the post that was deleted yesterday in this forum

For which I'm glad. So any rule breaking within the thread is unknown to me.(can't comment on it, IOW)

I'm avoiding the flame-fest in GD regarding Dworkin and McKinnon - because I don't happen to think men get to determine who my role models are (but then, I don't think other women get to either)....which isn't to say men aren't entitled to an opinion on feminists role models, I just don't happen to hold said opinion valid to my life or my thinking.

I try to avoid the obvious topics to ignite flame wars.

Know what's funny? I was thinking of the person you mentioned when I posted the other reply. :)

[lukasahero]

11. An excellent suggestion

Politically speaking, the biggest strike people seem to have against the Dems is that we "don't stand for something", right? We get accused of always being on the defensive. I think that also happens here and your suggestion of starting a counter-thread that offers the other view is an excellent means of dealing with it.

I, myself, don't have the energy to jump into every thread and fight a war and find that, for me, a (hopefully) reasoned comment on the "offending" post with the self-knowledge of when to walk away, is the best approach. I do, however, appreciate the stamina and strength of those willing to stay and fight. I guess what it boils down to for me is we need to use all the weapons we have at our disposal and each of us use the talents and strengths we have.

I also liked your idea about a serv-list but maybe just a PM as suggested here would do. I am putting it out there now that anyone who wants to PM me about stuff like this is encouraged to do so.

[Eloriel]

19. Counter threads --

may not work since there's a rule about not continuing flame wars in a separate thread.

[Senior citizen]

20. But there's no rule against copycat threads.

For example, if someone starts a thread that says, "Feminists are hurting the Democratic Party," it is perfectly okay to start a new thread entitled, "Feminists are helping the Democratic Party."

If you respond in the first thread, it does indeed turn into a flamefest, nevermind that it was intended as flamebait in the first place, but if you post only in the new thread you can keep it positive and force the disruptors to show themselves for what they are.

[Finder]

14. Another idea....

instead of going out to do battle...would be to identify feminists on those threads and invite them here. If they don't have stars we can donate in their name perhaps...

I don't think it is good to cull those out who don't agree with the majority of feminists here based on a few posts. Infighting leads to cliques and our battles need to be with those who diss equality not other progressives that may differ on a few points.