I don't want to insult a soul, but here's my opinion on how to talk to Obots.

[DemCam]

A long story, but bear with me.

I went to work for Wes Clark in 2004. They opened their office around Christmas with a couple of others, me and four staffers. I stayed, like a fool, 12 hours or more a day seven days a week until the office closed on Feb 4 or so. ne day I went to sleep at a stop light.

I did the same thing for Kerry. There I met what I would call the FAR LEFT in our party....the activists from the Left at any rate. They were good people, smart, many of them accomplished...very very passionate....and VERY VERY AUTHORITARIAN. It was very much smug mywayorhighway and there was NOTHING ACCEPTABLE except their ideas. I learned to keep my mouth shut.

They hated Hillary Clinton four years ago and all of them are rabid angry, drooling supporters of Obama. They were all convinced that the reason the Dems were losing was because we had forgotten our left-wing roots and it was time to return to those values. When I asked them who their favorite Far Left President in their lifetime had been they would think, gulp like a fish, turn away from me and continue with their kool-aid. Fill 'er up, Joe. Give me one more for the road.

In short they were, are fanatics. I believe that this group is the backbone of Obama's campaign.

They smell their first chance to control American in years....for some of them the first time in their lifetimes...and some of them are old, let me tell you. If we found out that THE O(ne) was a serial rapist, rape would all of a sudden not be so bad..(dare i say the new black?)...and they would give us the history of rape, say we just didn't understand about rape, and post long odes to opening a dialogue about rape. Praise Obama. (okay, maybe not.)

THERE IS NO WAY TO TALK TO THEM. I REPEAT...NO WAY TO REASON OR TALK TO THEM. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN
INFLUENCE THEM IS DEFEAT NOW OR IN NOVEMBER. AND IT WON'T BE PRETTY.

We can, however, come here for news, articles, to be appalled together, but other blogs are probably a good choice. I've gone elsewhere, but this little island saved my sanity when I couldn't find a positive comment anywhere it seemed. I check two or more times a day.

PRAISE BE TO YOU, RODEODANCE. You have no idea how grateful I am to you.



There endeth my epistle.

[shimmergal]

1. Yeah, I know some far-left fanatics

like that too. No actual president can ever be good enough to for their approval. Obama won't be either, if by some chance he wins & gets into office. They're just projecting their own dreams onto him.

The irony of it is, Hillary's policy positions--the measures she's suggested--are actually more progressive than Obama's. They don't see that; just keep repeating all those chants about DLC and "she'll do anything to win."

This is one reason the Democrats keep losing elections that we ought to win.

[JohnnyLib2]

2. Thanks.

It's really hard to hold back; somehow my worst side is stirred up!

Your words are wise, for sure.

[Two Americas]

3. lol

Good post DemCam.

I fear, though, that I may be one of your "FAR LEFT," but I can assure you that I am very much anti-authoritarian and in no way am I on board with the Obama phenomenon - it appalls me.

I never hated Senator Clinton and don't now. I have political disagreements with her, yes, but no more so that I have with many Democratic party politicians.

My favorite "far left" president was FDR, and candidates I have supported and worked for include RFK, Jesse Jackson, Jerry Brown, John Conyers, Wes Clark, Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards.

I know hundreds of "far left" people and I don't know any of them who are supporting Obama. There are a few here who may be your far left people and who seem to have been assimilated into the cult, but I don't think of them as far left myself. I guess I can't name names. While a couple of prolific and intelligent moderately leftist people on DU have become cult members, and while that did surprise me, all of the far leftists are critical of Obama and his followers.

That being said, I agree with all of your comments about the Obama followers.

[DemCam]

9. Of course there are always fabulous exceptions. :)

That's the reason I apologized at the beginning for putting people in boxes. I wish I knew as many Clinton supporters as you. If you don't mind my asking, what part of the country are you in? Do I need to move there?

[Two Americas]

11. thanks

Michigan. You probably don't want to move to Michigan, since the next Great Depression has already hit us.

I do think it has something to do with demographics, and maybe the part of the country as well.

Question for you - what makes a person far left? Those far left Obama people - what are their views, for example? What makes them far left?

[MADem]

21. They're far left because some of them think the candidate is "cool"

They like the fact that he said he will decriminalize marijuana. Of course, they don't understand that the President does not MAKE law, he can propose it, but it is up to the House and Senate to vote for it, and then he gets to sign it.

They like the fact that he voted against the war. That's about all they know about the guy.

[Two Americas]

26. something is off about it

"Against the war" - that is about it.

Notice that for conservatives, they hope he will smash up us leftists.

For the leftists, they hope he will smash up the DLC.

For the racists, they hope he will "disappear the divisions of the past" - like civil rights.

Others think that electing a Black man is a blow against racism,, and that only racists are not supporting him.

He is whatever people want him to be.

[DemCam]

23. Two Americas...you still want an answer?

I'm finding it hard to answer your question, because when I try to pinpoint issues,
I run up against my agreement...to a degree...with all of the issues that I think of.

Abortion rights, gay rights, women's rights, end racial and ethnic division , environment, reduce dependency on foreign oil,
end the war in Iraq, roll back Bush tax cuts, health care.....all off the top of my head.

In the end, in discussing this group that labeled themselves in New Mexico, "Progressives", to distinguish themselves from
...what?...traditional, rank and file, yellowdog...Democrats. There really is a sharp division. For example, the Progressives
are very close to the stereotype of latte liberals. My New Mexico Progressives are mostly white, university-educated liberals, who are very different than the NM Democrats who voted for Hillary...working class, union, rural, seniors, old-time Hispanics who have been here 400 years.

Again...there are multiple fabulous exceptions. And my observations are completely anecdotal and based on my own personal observations. I'm out of my demographic, in fact. Perhaps I'm out of my element. LOL

In the end, I think I'm talking about an authoritarian attitude...a system of beliefs that has become dogma...a system that draws great outcry
if the dogma is breached. The boundaries are very fluid, of course, and they even let me walk among them. But I kept many of my personal
beliefs quiet or else I would be labeled, with pursed lips, a "corporatist" or a "centrist" or a "racist" or god knows whatist.

I think we need every blessed Democrat we can muster so I was willing to compromise. They were not.

As I see it, this group wants to stop the primary right now, declare Obama the nominee, and one half of the Party be damned.

[Two Americas]

24. thanks

What I see is this - there is no common ideology at all among Obama supporters. We have libertarians and socialists who are ga ga over him, and the whole thing is so vague and emotional that actual positions or issues are completely lost in the hoopla.

What the Obama phenomenon is doing is going to destroy the left and the party.

[DemCam]

25. They certainly don't see it, though

I had lunch with a group of women today, split half and half between the two candidates. One accosted me first thing about Hillary
and her radical preacher. Wow...that one floored me.

She then went on to say that she thought Bill and Hillary Clinton had completely compromised their core values. And in your view, what values do you mean? I asked. She mumbled around and finally said they had moved to the center and compromised their leftist positions.

Ahhhhh, the accusation of centrist again.

She then uttered a cry from the heart, saying with passion: This is the first time I've ever had hope that we can accomplish the left's agenda.

We went on to other topics as one must in polite company, but it is another anecdote that illustrates my point, I think, and perhaps yours as well.

[anamnua]

4. Good OP

I've been watching the whole thing at 3,000 miles away (from Ireland)and have become progressively engaged with the Clinton campaign and spooked by the he-who-is-not-with-us-is-against-us fanaticism of the Obamites.
It is chillingly reminiscent of waht happened to the British Labour Party in the 70's and 80's. They were infiltrated by afar left group called 'Militant Tendency' through a process called 'entryism'. The result was that they were kept out of power for a generation.

[rodeodance]

20. Hi and welcome---and thanks for bit of hx. Nice to have your perspective.

[anamnua]

5. Addendum

'but this little island saved my sanity'
I'd also recommend:
http://www.taylormarsh.com/

[durrrty libby]

13. I love Taylor. What a fabulous dame

[rodeodance]

6. Hi demcal. I believe in Hillary simple as that. But i am also

taken back by your post.

Some one else just posted a short memo on how they think they are left-the dean and rfk types. ---they really believe that--but as you say--they are zealots!

i wanted so long to think they could be reasoned with --i had my ups and downs. bad day yesterday-on a personal attack on me-from several of them.


yes, we need each other now--more than ever.

best to you.

[robbedvoter]

7. Hi for another Clarkie - and I absolutely agree! There is no dialogue

Not productive anyway. You are absolutely right - I learned the lesson in 2001 when I got on line and tried arguing with freepers. Once I would make an argument, I'd be personally attacked - spammed in my personal mail with obscenities. I see the same here. And I am not trying to change minds - never did. Occasionally, correct facts maybe - but I see your point. Your epistle is wise.
I always said extremes have a lot in common - left and right. When they take power, some of the results are also similar. And democracy is the enemy of both.
But here, there is a cointelpro element too - as this primary is sockpuppeted by the GOP in many ways. So we're really dealing with both extremes - together.

[DemCam]

10. Hadn't thought of that

Bizarre in fact that that that could be so. How strong is our girl? once you've put it that way.

[robbedvoter]

15. She knows the score and can take it!

been fighting the same alliance for 16 years and is willing to keep it up.

[goldcanyonaz]

8. They remind me of the radical right, and there is no talking to them either.

[Lilith Velkor]

12. Since when does the Far Left approve of hippie-baiting and Reagan-fellating?

Since when does the Far Left gleefully marginalize the gay community? Or coddle the bible-thumpers instead of telling them to render unto Caesar and STFU about politics already?

I think you spelled it wrong. It's the FAUX Left. They wouldn't know Left if FDR came back and slapped 'em.

[robbedvoter]

18. It's why I said GOP is steering the wheel of this mindless mob

[DemCam]

27. Since they fell in love and got hope.

[displacedtexan]

14. I worked for Kerry's campaign in DC HQ

(both at Stanton Park and later at DuPont Circle) from June,2003-Nov.,2004.

We had the most trouble (by that, I mean constant pranking and stuffing our phone
message banks., bandwidth usage, etc.) from the Dean supporters. To those of us at HQ, including
our very young interns and volunteers, the Dean "kids" were the "very leftwing" ones.

I started in rapid response and moved into policy. What was your area in the campaign?
Where were you located?

I observed no hatred of either Clinton or Edwards. Just Dean.

So, naturally, I tend to think of the rabid Obama supporters as being disgruntled Deaniacs.

Isn't life interesting?

[Ellen Forradalom]

19. I was a Deanie

Never behaved like that, though. I'm a grownup.

Because of the Dean experience I was, and still am, leery of the Obama phenomenon.

[susankh4]

16. Agreed.

I have stopped talking to them (except for the rare occasion when I feel like antagonizing them.) My "ignored" list has grown quite exponentially. My D.U. is even downright peaceful at times ......:grouphug:

I will admit, tho, that some of the best fun I have all day is watching the Obamaphiles bang their heads over the positive Hillary and Bill vids I post. Most of the videos are downright inane... but they go absolutely rabid over them....:rofl:

[maddiejoan]

17. I use bitchy snarks

:hi:

[Deep13]

22. Wow, sounds like a description of the Terminator.

They cannot be reasoned with and all that. :(