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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:53 AM
Original message
Critique of "Dances With Wolves"
This is a critique of the film "Dances With Wolves" and the vision of Kevin Costner regarding the project. -Bill



EXISTENCE

The air is crisp. The landscape holds shadows and light. Mesmerizing. Resplendent. Haunting. Flashing memories from a not so distant time. People. Culture. Dreams. There are romantic notions. The tint of grandeur. Nobility. Savagery. This is life. This is death. Melancholy illusions. Fields of sadness. Is this all gone? Where are the songs? The dances? Sometimes we revel in mystique. Tears are shed for ancient lives. When death is all around us. Pain. Anguish. Poverty. There is no beauty. Nobody rides off into the sunset. What is life? What is death? What are dreams? Some call them existence.
_________
In his only nonfiction novel, Killing Custer, Blackfeet Indian author, James Welch, critiques the film, Dances With Wolves, by arguing it is everything that a white person could want in a film. Lieutenant John Dunbar, played by Kevin Costner, taps into romantic notions of American Indians. He becomes an Indian, marries another Indian, who is really a white woman, and does all of this amidst gorgeous, breathtaking landscapes. The Indians in the film have a homogeneity to them. There are the “good” Indians, the “bad” Indians, the funny and the dangerous. Some yip, some holler and some just stand around and act noble. The good Indians have a child-like quality to them, while the bad ones perpetuate the stealing, murdering savage myth. Welch eludes to all of this. And, I would say he is right. Yet, sometimes I think that the people who critique Costner’s vision, not necessarily Welch, miss the point of this whole process. Costner, while not perfect, holds an integral role in the evolution of Indian film.

Obviously, Dances With Wolves, is told in a Eurocentric manner. The “story” of Indians is told by a white man and through the eyes of a white man. That is one of the biggest criticisms of films made about American Indians. It is not from an Indian point of view. Costner makes no pretense of seeing the Indian world through an Indian’s eyes, and in part, this may be why this film is so romantic. The character, Lieutenant Dunbar, humorously finds white men absurd. Whether it’s the flatulent mule driver, the suicidal military commander, or the dangerous rube, Spivey, who steals Dunbar’s journal and encompasses the embodiment of Euro-ignorance, the protagonist finds them all ridiculous. In the end, he finds no real home. He does find peace with the Indians, but has to leave them, so his character never quite sheds his loneliness. He simply leaves the Indians with the belief that a way of life - his way and the way of the wild frontier- is about to vanish.

This concept of the vanishing frontier, more specifically in this case, the vanishing Indian is at the heart of the Eurocentric view. This is the biggest flaw of Costner’s vision and the film itself. Death is quite symbolic in Dances With Wolves. It’s all around Lieutenant Dunbar. From his participation in the Civil War, to the death of animals, to the eventual demise of the whole indigenous culture. The latter of course is a myth. That’s what makes the Eurocentric vision so flawed. Indians have not died. We are still here. Through the Indian wars, assimilation, and socioeconomic turmoil, the Indian people have persevered. There is nothing romantic about life on a reservation. It’s difficult, rife with addiction, poverty and violence. Indians have suffered, not vanished, so it does no good to wax philosophic about the grievances and injustices of the past. It’s not important to lament the vanishing Indian, but it is important to examine the current situation of the contemporary Indian populace. That is the most valid contemporary criticism of this film. However, I understand what Costner was trying to do here, and it is tremendously respectable.

By getting people in theaters, Costner was able to conjure interest in American Indians. Without his film, we may never have had an interest in films about Indians and by Indians. Sherman Alexie and Chris Eyre may not have made Smoke Signals, for example. Neither may have went on to make other films told through an Indian’s perspective, either. Costner helped push a golden age, if you could call it that, of Indian film and Indian interests which have expanded into the world of literature as well. Indian literature and film are relatively mainstream now. They transcend Indian audiences. While people like Pulitzer winner and Kiowa Indian, N. Scott Momaday, ushered in a revolution of Indian art, Kevin Costner helped create an interest that opened the doors even further to these artists. That is his most important contribution to the Indian people.

Last August I was talking to the Montana State Coordinator of Indian affairs, Reno Charette. She told me that in the process of getting a program called “Indian Education for All” funding, she had to attend meetings of the Montana State Legislature. The program would provide education about Indians and Indian history to all Montana students, both white and indigenous alike. She recalled how one white male member of the Senate stood up and argued against the program. His argument was that the program was unnecessary, because Indians do not exist anymore. He wondered if “we,” meaning Montana, America and the world, even had Indians anymore. That is the type of thinking that American Indians have to deal with nowadays. People wonder if we even exist. Now while Kevin Costner may have helped perpetuate that myth to an extent in his film, he also piqued enough interest so that Indians can now prove those stereotypes wrong. The importance of that interest cannot ever be understated.
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good Critique...
I have read Fools Crow by James Welch, and that was a very interesting book. I do agree with his critque. Most of Dances with Wolves, was a broad, romaticizing of indians...One movie, Into the West, took another stab at white/indian issues, and I was rather impressed that Into the West, brought in the Caryle Institute, the boarding schools for Indian kids, when I saw that, i was impressed, because it was the first time i ever saw that in a mainstream movie.

Costner did do a lot of good with the film, and he tries, and he has brought awareness to American Indian issues...i think, he also hosted, or narrated that 500 Nations dvd set. My wife and I are about half way done with that HUGE documentary...but anyways.
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. there are some good indian movies
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 04:57 AM by cleofus1
my favorite is pow wow highway...even though the two leads were played by non indians...it really captured the flavor of being a knucklehead back in the day...

smoke signals is good...just a little over melodramtic...but cool nonetheless...
500 nations is spectacular...although it is a documentary it is the best...the best that had been put to film to date...

when i was in santa fe the fave was windwalker and little big man with the kids at school...oh yes and a man called horse was very very popular with all the skins...

i cannot stand to watch most indian movies...if i want to see indians killed i'll go hang out on hi way 666
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah...:)
Edited on Mon Mar-13-06 01:27 AM by petersond
Some other decent ones, at least ones that I liked, that you didn't mention was Skins, The Education of Little Tree. I just saw part of a new indian movie this past weekend, it was called...like, the Edge of America, it deals with an indian school, and focuses on a black man, who is the coach of the women's basketball team. I only watched about ten minutes of the show, but it looked good to me. I also like Thunderheart? The one with Val, and Graham Greene, i liked that one...:)

Its hard finding good indian movies. My wife loves Smoke Signals, i thought it was okay, i grew up on windwalker, and bought that one not to long ago...it was the first time my wife seen it. my buddy tom, who is osage, his fav is Jeremiah Johnson...:)

Edit: Spelling, i had coach, as couch...i'm an idiot.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-13-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Where The Spirit Lives
is great. It's about the boarding school experience. It's told through the eyes of a young Blackfeet girl who is just brought into the boarding school straight out of the sticks. Here's the IMDB link.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103244/
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks for the info...
Its rather difficult finding some good Indian movies...another movie for me to keep my eye out for...:)
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. if you even get a chance check out "War Party"
directed by Franc Roddam, starring Billy Wirth and Kevin Dillon. It's not exactly Citizen Kane, but it was filmed on my home reservation, partly in my hometown and the next one over. I remember when I was about 15 everybody thought that was just the shit, haha.
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-15-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks...:)
Edited on Wed Mar-15-06 06:15 PM by petersond
the one movie I grew up on was WindWalker, I have seen that movie hundreds of times. My wife, recommends the Education of Little Tree to everyone, we are still looking for it. We found it a special interest store, but they want WAY to much for it...

Edit: Spelling, i wrote stoe, instead of store.
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. hey!
Edited on Mon Mar-27-06 07:59 AM by cleofus1
has anyone seen this one?

Dreamkeeper - David Midthunder; DVD

this is review from one of the buyers

This Amazon reviewer guy obviously has no clue about what this story is actually about, or why the film format is really groundbreaking for Native American film and DOES work, wonderfully. It really isn't a typical Hallmark film. He thinks the special effects are cheesy because he doesn't understand these stories that are being told... and missed the humor of a lot of it. It's not about "myths" in the way that White people see myths. It's about how story is life.
THIS IS NOT A CHEESY HALLMARK MOVIE. It's really artfully done and is not a typical TV movie about why mainstream culture should loooove those Interesting and Spiritual Native Americans. I hope this film won't get labeled as a Nice Family Film About Myths. The only reason it's a TV movie by Hallmark is probably because this was the only way to fund such a high-budget Native film. What's too bad about that is that it won't get seen by the independent/art film crowd who might give it the awards that it deserves.

Honestly, not to offend anyone, but I think that this film wasn't made for White people, it's really more for Native people who will understand its importance. It's kind of how there are a lot of important films about White people/white american culture FOR White people who share the culture of the characters that other people can watch and either misunderstand (due to lack of understanding of white american culture) or try to view it in its context and understand the white perspective.

In the same way, this film needs to be seen in its own context, apart from the fact that it was shown on TV and laced with commercials aimed at mainstream America, or that its being sold as a Hallmark movie. A lot of these stories told by the Grandfather are becoming less and less told, and now are preserved for the younger generations in a way that still respects the 'oral tradition' that they come from. I hope that eventually the film will be treated more seriously, and that all those serious film critic-types will give it more attention and recognize all the creative and profound things that are going on in the structure and plot and cinematography.

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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. Dances with wolves, historical critique
I remember that shortly after Dances with Wolves came out one of my history professors who had just taught a course on South Dakota history which included substantial material on Indians, and Indian-white relations asked what I thought of the film.

I replied, "Well, for one thing it is absurd to think that a band of Lakota would not have had more contacts than that with white culture by the time of the civil war."


He cut me off with, "That's right, on at least an annual basis for at least three generations, and there would have been a bilingual mixed blood family living with the band, and in the particular area where the movie was filmed they would have been not only bilingual, but trilingual, and they would have been named Valandra."

We discussed the movie a little further, and also agreed that it was simplistic in many ways, and (indeed) told for an audience of white people, but at the same time he also stated that despite all these flaws the movie got some things right.


As far as good Indian movies I believe that Smoke Signals has a significant number of fans among the Native American population. and I did not see it listed among any of the other comments.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. yes Smoke Signals does
have a good many fans among Indians. I mention it in the essay. Chris Eyre's follow is "Skins" and that was done as an Indian counter to Dances With Wolves.
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. hey i mentioned smoke signals...wah (sfx baby crying)!
i just said it was kinda cheesy...but i liked it in spite of it's cheesyness...
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. admit it, you have a Frybread Power shirt!
:P

I interviewed Sherman Alexie a few years ago. He's definitely an interesting guy. He is genius smart too. Nothing much gets past that guy. :)
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. mmmmmmmmmmmmm frybread......
Edited on Wed Mar-29-06 09:32 AM by cleofus1
love eating it...hate cooking it...i need to get a F/bP t-shirt...hell i need to get a beaded baseball cap...and a ribbon shirt in xxx large...
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-29-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. the official frybead power t-shirt
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CountAllVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-08-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
15. You should read what Ward Churchill says
about Dances with Wolves in his book "Fantasies of the Master Race". Insightful ... oh yeah.

:kick:
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itsmesgd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. not trying to start a fight...
but I am not sure of WC's ethnic credentials. It has been an often debated topic that churchill is seen by many as a wannabe phony and uses fake tribal affiliations for merit and as a base for his writing and speeches. I realize that this is a much deeper pool than I am prepared to dive into, but I would suggest that you look into churchill before giving his words any more power. I have never read his words because of warning that he was a phony posted on the aim webpage and the advice of others more knowledgeable than myself. This is a highly debated argument that I do not wish to start up, but I would only suggest that you research that which anyone tells you before accepting it as the truth.
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