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Rant on why I dont care much for Frank Miller

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-05 03:21 PM
Original message
Rant on why I dont care much for Frank Miller


I like Year One- it was actaully very human & well done- but everything else is basically tough guys killing people. Thank goodness he did not do the art.

Dark Knight- a Republican Batman who kills people & hates Supes? No thanks. He basically turns Batman into one of his Sin City type gorillas as far as I can tell.

What is up with his obsession with TORTURE techniques? Mabey they need him in GITMO. Why is that entertaining?

Sin City Movie: AWESOME production, terrible story. Are their any FM characters that are not cavemen or hookers? Exactly which "tough guy" am I supposed to identify with in that story?

Oh well- thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it!!!

As Johnny Storm would say- FLAME ON!!!
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. you have a very good point...
i agree that year one is proboly his best effort. i mostlyloved it becouse of the art! mazucelli rocks!

and all the rest kinda sucks...

dark knight? i liked it, OK....
for me the best part was watching supes get his ass handed to him...
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. When he's good, he's very, very good. And when he's bad, he's horrid.
Miller's best work stands near the pinnacle of the comic book artform, but when he drops a stinker, it's often so bad that it fouls anything connected to it.

His first run at the helm of Marvel's Daredevil, from issues 168 through 191 (or so), was among the best stuff that Marvel had produced in nearly 20 years, and it's still superior to much that has come since. His return to Daredevil with David Mazzuchelli is also very good, if for no other reason than because it revitalized (and gave new focus and direction to) a title that had utterly sucked for about three years.

His Batman: Year One is excellent for much the same reason (Mazzuchelli included!). It revitalized a decades-old character that had degraded into self-caricature. It also served as a thematic book-end to complement Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, even if that latter title was later relegated to an "Elseworlds" storyline.

But his Elektra: Assassin stuff from around the same time is self-absorbed and faux-artsy crap that the reader can just as well do without.

His first Sin City series was excellent because it was visually groundbreaking and uncompromising, in a way that its contemporary titles seldom were. It stands alongside Gaiman's Sandman as some of the best work of the 90's. But the later Sin City titles lacked the same power and seemed to obsess too much with breasts, penises, and guns, often in the same frame. Hey, not that there's anything wrong with that, but such imagery should (IMO) enhance the story rather than drive it.

I didn't care for Bad Boy, and Hard Boiled was visually very cool but generally uninteresting to me as a story. And the interminable Martha Washington stuff was just awful, due in no small part to Dave Gibbon's hugely over-rated artwork. I couldn't care less for Miller's Robocop vs. Terminator stuff, and his Batman vs. Spawn oneshot is an entirely forgettable foray into market exploitation.

Dark Knight II is inexcusable drek, and a clear effort to pad Frank's pockets at the expense of artistic expression. Its very publication undercut Alan Moore's forward to the bound edition of the Dark Knight Returns, wherein Moore notes that a mythic character's strength is often derived from an awareness of his own death. In publishing Dark Knight II, Miller takes away this awareness and throws Batman back onto the pile of generically immortal costumed heroes.

And then I stumble upon this tidbit, and I think that Frank's finally lost whatever scrap of artistic integrity he once had. I've known for years that his professed political views are common among angry (and angrily ineffectual) Libertarians, but it's a real disappointment to see him aiming for a political zinger. Sure, Superman fought the Nazi's in WWII-era comics, but one would hope that we'd advanced beyond this simplistic, four-color chest-thumping.

Miller apparently has not.

Still, it was cool to see him dead with a ball-point pen in his forehead in the otherwise not great Daredevil film, and as a priest shot in the confessional booth in Sin City.
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cleofus1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. sorry about misspelling my favorite artists name!
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. I would disagree somewhat on Dark Night
I thought the first one was pretty good. Supes sold his soul to shill for US government headed up by a Reaganesque character so he was no prize.

Year One is great stuff, definitely.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I actually rethought that angle after I posted this... BUT...
That was the 1980's- back when Republicans were "anti government"

The Joker's therapist is your typical stereotypical sandal wearing Liberal- and Superman is a "stooge" of "Big government."

I should say that DK I has more of a Libertarian bent than straight up Republican.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. In one perspective Miller's Batman is as leftist as a person can get...
The special features from the movie "Unbreakable" had an interview with Frank Miller. In this interview, Miller was talking about how superheroes have changed over the years in order to combat dwindling comic book sales. During this, Miller explains how he made Batman more interesting by changing him into a anarchist hero with character flaws.

Reading Dark Knight Returns, I do see this anarchist who is in battle against illegitimate hierarchies. It is clear that the U.S. Government in DK is fascist... a corrupt blend of big government and the military/industrial complex. I think the pivitol moment in the whole story is when the Soviet made EMP nuke goes off with Batman saying that their was also an U.S. version made that was designed to cause maximum harm to the environment while sparing the industrial sites that Supes's "friends" so highly covet.

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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yep. SIN CITY's characters are not very compelling...
...except for Marv, sometimes. But the vivid portrayal of all that ultra-violence is riveting.

I dug DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I love the "look" of Sin City.
Arguably the most well done comic adaption ever- my problem is I never liked the comic to begin with.

I never read DK2- I flipped through it but thought the art was too sloppy.
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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yes, I agree....
DK2 sucked, art work dumb, and in my opinion, drawn rather bad...I did like the angle of superman/wonderwoman finally getting it on, and having a kid...
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. The art was horrendous!
And the digital coloring looked like it was created by a five year old. It's one thing for Miller to cry about mainstram comics. It's another to work for them and put your name on a 6 dollar comic book with artwork THAT bad...
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Dob Bole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-05 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, I agree...
I like Frank Miller's art (Superman: The Secret Years, etc) but his stories are too dark for me to enjoy. While Sin City was a well-made work of art, I couldn't watch it again, for the same reason.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Grant Morrisson steps on Frank Miller and wipes him off his shoe
with a stick while saying "ewwwww."
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Dark Knight Batman was a refreshing change...
...back in the eighties. Miller was right to ask whether a man hurt that badly, who had all those resources, would grow up to be another Superman. No, he wouldn't; Dark Knight rang true. It was a much-needed antidote to the typical four-color moralizing of comic books, even as Adam West once brilliantly lampooned the myth.
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