On The Origins of Evil?

[leftyladyfrommo]

I just thought this might also be an interesting topic since belief in Satan seems to be such a prevalent thing these days. I know the Catholics I know all believe in a very active Satan. And I think the Evangelicals do too.

I am reading Pagel's book on the Origins of Evil (that might not be the exact title) and she traces Evil back into the Old Testament. But in the beginning these were actually angels that were just kind of messing around with God's creatures - almost like it was a joke or a test.

But it seems to me that there is also an interesting tie into some Eastern Schools(Zoroaster (sp?)) - that that was when the big divide between Evil and Good came to be popular. I know there were Jewish groups - the Essenes - for instance - that believed in a huge battle coming between the Sons of Darkness and the Sons of Light. Unfortunately, when the big battle came it was between the Essenes and the Romans and the Romans won.

I have never believed in a Satan or Hell - just never seemed necessary to me. But I think it is an interesting topic.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. The Jewish concept of the Devil came from the Zoroastrians

the Zendavesta of Zarathustra or the Gathas of Zarathustra (forget which) talk of the creation of the world, when Ahura Mazda, the Lord of Light and Wisdom, came to be along with ....Agru (I'm at work, don't have the text in front of me) was lord of darkness and ignorance. In "A History of God", it is mentioned that before the Babylonian Captivity, Jews felt that both good and evil came from God. It was only after their contact with Babylonians that their concepts changed.

I'll look up the Zoroastrian creation story and post it later.

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. I think that Good and Evil being part of the same creation is

kind of a common theme in cultures. But it makes sense.

I don't think evil existed until we had evolved to the point where we could be "evil." It is a purely human thing. And we certainly seem to have made an art form out of it, haven't we?

I will try to get some more information out here soon. I have been kind of preoccupied with "life" the last few days. My best friend just found out she has to have her shoulder replaced. I don't even know what that really means - but she is going to be disabled for a while. Fortunately, I am not working so can be there to help her. I also have another life-long friend who is dying of lung cancer. Too sad. She never smoked, never drank. Always took good care of herself. It is so depressing. And am going back to visit my mother for her 92nd birthday and she is just in a terrible mood - so that trip might end up being way more interesting than I had hoped.

But life works itself out. And these things will just pass after a few months. It's making it thru those few months that can be hard.

I'm so glad you are here.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. The Zoroastrian story of Creation (good & evil)

Sorry it's taken me so long to post this, but here it is-from the Zend Avesta of Zarathustra

Vendid, Fargard 1

I Ahura Mazda Spake unto Spitama Zarathustra saying: First I have made the Kingdom of Light, Dear to all Life.

I cast my shadow Angra Mainyou, Who is all death.

The second of the good Kingdoms, which I, Ahura Mazda, created, was Ahura the Preserver.

Therupon came Angra Mainyou, who is all death, and he counter-created Deva Spoiler.

The third of the good Kingdom, whic I, Ahura Mazda, created, was the Ahura of Eternal Life.

Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all Death, and he counter-created the Deva of Death.

The fourth of the good Kingdoms, which I, Ahura Mazda, created, was the Ahura of Wisdom.

Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all Death, and he counter created the Deva of Ignorance.

It goes on in this vein-

Fifth Kingdom-Ahura of Work, Deva of Idleness

Sixth Kingdom-Ahura of Love, Deva of Hatred

Seventh Kingdom-Ahura of Peace, Deva of Violence

Eighth Kingdom-Ahura of Power , Deva of Weakness

Ninth Kingdom- Fravashi of Sun, Khrafstra of Darkness

10th Kingdom- Fravashi of Water, Khrafstra of Impure Water

11th Kingdom- Fravashi of Air, Khrafstra of Impure Air

12th Kingdom- Fravashi of Earth, Khrafstra of Barrenness

13th Kingdom -Fravashi of Food, Khrafstra of Impure Food

14th Kingdom-Fravashi of Health, Khrafstra of Disease

15th Kingdom-Fravashi of Man, Khrafstra of Inferior Man

16th Kingdom - Fravashi of Joy, Khrafstra of Sadness

[leftyladyfrommo]

4. Thank you for posting that.

My best friend just had surgery yesterda - had to have her whole shoulder replaced. I will be busy taking care of her for a while but will get here as often as I can. (Her surgery went very well - but I guess the recovery and therapy for that can get pretty bad).

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. I pray her recovery is rapid

and that she has no complications.

[leftyladyfrommo]

8. Thanks for the thoughts.

We had a really bad day yesterday. She got dehydrated and her blood pressure crashed. She ended up in Intensive Care. Scared me to death.

I was just sick to death from worry last nite. But I got there early this morning and she is lots better. They have her blood pressure under control and she is hydrated again and her electrolytes are getting straightened out. She was sitting up and eating and cracking jokes.

So they will move her back to a unit with a heart monitor for the rest of today and maybe tomorrow. Said she probably can come home Wed.

Then maybe I can get my life back on track again. I am just exhausted from all of this anxiety.

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. Where were these people? We they close to India?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. The Zoroastrians were originally from Persia

there are still some who practice that faith there, but when the Muslims took over the country, many moved to Bombay. They are known there as Farsis (Farsi is the language of Persia).