So I walked out of a church service for the first time in my life today.

[tanyev]

We didn't even bother going to the church where we are members because I knew they would be doing a patriotic pep rally. There's a large Episcopal church close to us I've been wanting to visit (I'm Lutheran), and I thought I'd have a better chance there of observing the seventh Sunday of Pentecost rather than the high holy festival of Independence Day.

I knew when I sat down and started looking at the bulletin I would be in trouble. "America", "My Country 'Tis of Thee", "Faith of our Fathers" just to start off with. Not that I have any problem with any of those songs individually, but I just was not in the mood to deal with it today.

At the head of the choir procession, someone carried a large flag--maybe that is SOP, I don't know--and a bunch of little kids were right behind him with small flags. Literal flag-waving. We stayed through the sermon and I decided we should leave before communion. I just wasn't feeling comfortable there. So when they started "The Battle Hymn of the Republic", Mr. tanyev and I got up and left.

I realize I have gotten more sensitive to this kind of stuff in recent years, but it seems like it's getting worse. I'm sure growing up that the churches I went to would have observed the proper Sunday of Pentecost and maybe sung "My Country 'Tis of Thee" for a closing hymn.

Anybody else have to grit their teeth this morning? I'm interested in how your church deals with July 4th.

I may not respond right away, because I'm going out of town tomorrow, but I'll check in when I get back. Thanks!

[elshiva]

1. My parish church is Episcopalian and we did sing those songs

today, BUT we also had a beautiful baptism of three little boys. Most of the focus was on them and not the Fourth except for the singing.

It's OK, it's only once a year in our parish, but is this one you are going to liberal or conservative? We are liberal and the pastor has been preaching about being more outspoken as political liberal christians...

[tanyev]

9. Well, I don't know.

That was the first time I ever visited there. It is a large, new church built in a contemporary style, but not really ugly contemporary. There were plenty of nods to traditional church architecture.

There was a very nice organ and the choir processed in. But I never did quite figure out why the choir was there. The bulletin had no mention of a choir anthem, they weren't accomplishing much in leading the congregational singing since they split up on two sides of the building and all you could really hear were the 4 people up front who had microphones. I guess it was the Episcopal version of a praise team. They had a grand piano with an excellent pianist and a few other instrumentalists backing them up. Besides the patriotic songs there were a few other songs in the service which were not traditional hymns, but not quite contemporary praise songs. Oh, and there were no hymnals in the rack, just Bibles and service books.

[elshiva]

14. praise team sounds RW, but not conclusive...

[AngryOldDem]

2. I'm Catholic

Not much was said other than a prayer intention for those in the service, which is OK. The recessional hymn was "For the Healing of the Nations," an obscure (at least to me) tune that has somehow been at the top of the music minister's hit parade for about the past three weeks now. I believe -- but don't recall that clearly -- the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" was played while folks were leaving, but nobody was paying attention anyway.

I agree with you that such a blatant display is out of place in a church. My church rarely makes a big deal out of patriotic holidays.

[FreedomAngel82]

6. My preacher also

did that with the military. Asked before hand if anybody in the presence had served before and we had a couple of hands come up. He talked about the military and how they're fighting for our freedoms and all that. He mentioned those in Iraq and Afghainstan. Of course the military hasn't fought for our freedoms since WW2. He told how we enjoy the freedoms we have because of people who died for us and how lucky we are compared to other countries and he lead a prayer for those off fighting now. I'm Church of Christ and the preacher is pretty nuteral. Everybody my age but my brother and I though are all pro-Bush (ugh). We were the only two who voted for Kerry.

[cpamomfromtexas]

19. I'm Church of Christ too, but I had to leave one church

I left once I couldn't get to my car without someone praising GWB. They were too pro war for me. I squared off with one preacher who was so pro war it made me sick. Of course he's never been in the military and certainly wasn't signing up his 20 year old.

the hypocrisy makes me ill.

Not long ago I got an email about the court appointee who is supposedly COC and that we should pray for her. The simple fact is, if his appointees weren't corporatists they wouldn't be nominees.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. Only two signs of the Fourth of July at my church:

the recessional hymn was America the Beautiful, and the organ postlude was Charles ives' America Variations, which is actually quite funny.

We never have the American flag in the sanctuary, just our processional banners to represent the parish and whatever festival it happens to be.

A lot depends on the clergy in charge.

[CBHagman]

4. We sang "America the Beautiful" for the recessional.

Actually, that hymn has some value morally, because the final chorus is...

America, America, God mend thine every flaw.

Confirm thy soul in self-control

Thy liberty in law.

I also used to enjoy hearing this verse of "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" at Trinity Episcopal in Columbia, SC. I don't know if it is sung at other Episcopal churches.

Our fathers' God, to thee,

Author of liberty

To thee we sing.

Long may our land be bright

With freedom's holy light.

Protect us by thy might,

Great God, our king.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. We had a sermon Sunday

It was about being a country for God and at the end we sang "God Bless America."

[RevCheesehead]

7. Well, this year I "gave in."

We did a Patriotic Hymn-Sing at the beginning of the service. But even before we began, the organist played her rendition of "I'm proud to be an American." (it sounded pretty funny - I just smiled.)

We sang: My Country, Tis of Thee, America the Beautiful, Eternal Father, Strong to Save (a.k.a. "The Navy Hymn"), and a beautiful one called "This is my Song, O God of ALL the Nations." It talks about patriotism, but puts it within a global context.

My sermon was about the dichotomy of independence and dependence. I reminded them that both children and very elderly people are insistent on doing things "by myself." But somewhere in the middle years, we look around and ask, "would somebody please help me?" I then reminded them that even if we are capable of being independent, we are better off when we remember that we are part of a global community, that the way we can peacefully co-exist is by learning to depend upon one another.

Our closing hymn was "Lift Every Voice and Sing" (the unofficial African-American National Anthem.)

This was new territory for me, because I usually avoid the patriotic crap like the plague. But this year, I wanted to help find a way for all of us to embrace patriotism, but to remember our priorities. We are still, in our churches, "Under God."

[tanyev]

10. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a while.

I am a church musician, trained in all that high falutin high church stuff like chanted liturgies and the lectionary. And I was taught that the only thing that pre-empts the usual propers of the day is if a Sunday happens to fall on one of the Lesser Festivals, like a Saints Day or the Annunciation of our Lord, etc. Now, granted, I'm Lutheran, and more and more churches are getting away from observing those kind of things. OK. But it still hits me like fingernails on a chalkboard when the propers for the seventh Sunday of Pentecost are completely set aside to observe a national holiday.

Even during the 90s, back when I was still pretty proud of my country and did not perceive the blurring of the line between church and state, I would have to grit my teeth to get through the "Fourth of July" service. I was in a situation where I was the only organist and it was such a major hassle to find a sub that I did it only when I really needed to. Now I am in a situation where I am the relief organist. I usually play the first Sunday of the month, but since I knew our congregation always does a patriotic service, I thought I would do myself a favor and make myself unavailable to play. Maybe next year I will just stay home on that Sunday.

In fairness, my pastor does a good job of staying neutral. He has a son serving in Iraq, and he speaks in general terms about service to country and thankfulness for our freedoms.

[RevCheesehead]

13. Oh, we did the 7th Sunday after Pentecost.

I still preach the lectionary, and keep things within the scope of traditional worship. In fact, I used the lessons (esp. the gospel) to remind us that in spite of our "independence," we need to be dependent upon God, and the community of faith. Sometimes, we are "too patriotic" and need to be reminded that independence does not give us blanket permission to do "whatever we want."

I was a church musician for years, before I went to seminary - so I truly emphathize with what you're saying. I always found it fun to play selected passages from Ives' "Variations on America." Especially the atonal, dissonant ones... they really make you think twice about the words! :)

[pelagius]

8. Churches vary widely in their practices...

...,of course, from area to area, but my Episcopal church used the regular prayers for a Pentecost Sunday and the sermon was on the Gospel reading for the day. No flags in our procession, although there is an American flag tucked into one corner of the chancel (an Episcopal flag is in the other corner. We offered up intercessions, as we always do, for the President, Congress, and Courts and asked that God guide our leaders to seek justice, rather than personal gain. We prayed for our military personnel, as we always do, and prayed our regular prayers for peace. The sermon was on the day's Scripture readings, not any patriotic theme. We sang "America" (rather spiritedly) as the closing hymn and I'll admit my eyes welled-up at the high ideals expressed in those words (and no doubt in frustration at how far we've fallen), but the other songs were, for lack of a better word, religious and not patriotic. And our recessional was Ives' "Variations on America", also!

Our church's minister has time and time again said that purpose of our coming together is to honor the Lord and experience His Presence as we commune with each other. Anything that shifts focus from that worship is extraneous.

I am so sorry you happened upon a church that, at least for a day, lost track of what was most important.

[tanyev]

11. Now that's the kind of service I was hoping for.

I noticed that they have an early (8:00) chapel service, and the other two (we went to 9:15) are in the sanctuary. Maybe that chapel service is a much more traditional service. I'll have to check it out sometime.

[AlabamaYankee]

12. I stayed home, too.

They sang patriotic hymns last year and I left after the service in an unsettled mood. I strongly feel that the church should be the one place where there is no recognition of Government; it's God's place, and the only banner that's needed is the cross. My Church also has the American and Episcopal flags in the Nave, but I can pretty much ignore them. I mentioned my concerns to the priest, but he's a complete "don't rock the boat" type of person and felt that people would be upset it it were removed.

We do pray for those serving in Iraq and other places of danger, which is not only appropriate but necessary; they all need to come home safe and soon.

[JVS]

15. You should discuss such issues with your pastor.

But since you were a guest at the Episcopalian church, I don't know what to tell you. At least you got to find out what it was like. I missed church on the 3rd because I was visiting my parents. I guess I could pick up the DVD that they make in the balcony and have a gander.

I remember the funeral of a guy I grew up with in my parent's church, he was a year younger than me. As you may have noticed over the years, page 206 of the Lutheran Book of Worship states that "The ceremonies or tributes of social or fraternal societies have no place within the service of the Church." This being a military funeral, I'm sure that many expected a flag instead of the normal pall as well as the appearance of a patriotic hymn, but pastor wouldn't allow that into the service. Instead we sang "How Great Thou Art", "On Eagle's Wings", "I the Lord of Sea and Sky", and "There is a Balm in Gilead". Only after the Pastor had delivered the commendation to go forth in peace, did the military bugler play taps from outside the church and the bagpipers play "amazing grace". I am thinking that if a funeral of a soldier can have such a clear emphasis on Christian Worship rather than patriotism, then it should not be difficult for the Seventh Sunday of Pentecost to be observed in the proper Christocentric fashion.

[pelagius]

16. Similar situation in my church...

The minister lets the fraternal groups (or whomever) do their thing before the service starts and after that it's all Jesus, all the time. :-)

[RevCheesehead]

17. I make 'em wait until they get to the cemetery.

[JVS]

18. That would have been the case, but the cemetary was Arlington

and the funeral was Pittsburgh. Most attendees were not going to make the trip.