Leaking tub faucet

[Lisa0825]

I got the info that follows from a DIY forum (link below). Some of it sounds like basically what I did.

The poster's situation was just like mine: "I have the shut off for the hot water in my shower leaking as if it is turned on."

It's a slow stream, quite a bit more than just dripping.

I did go to the hardware store with the cartridge from behind the knobs. The clerk helped me pick out a set (I wanted the new knobs too). I went home, and installed the new set. The faucet works, but still has the same leak I started with.

Part 2 is what it looks like, what I removed and replaced:


So, I went online and started looking for info. In the step by step description below, what I do not understand is the talk about a "seat" and a "seat wrench." Is there something else I should have removed besides the cartridge?

Any tips for what to try next to fix the leak?

Will I need to get into the plumbing behind the shower wall? I can access it from the closet that backs up to it, but I will have to remove a nailed-down panel.

http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=163890

Shut water off at main; the first valve in the water line as it passes through the floor or the wall.

Remove the handle on whatever side the temperature of the water is.

Remove the stem. Use faucet wrenches, try not to destroy square edges of stem with a pliers or channel locks.

Pull out stem, go to a local Service plumbing supply house, tell them that you need the faucet seat and seat washer, bibb screw for the stem you have.

Most times, the stem does not need replacement, just the wearable parts.

You will need a seat wrench to remove the seat inside of the faucet; do not leave seat in faucet, it is probably rough edged, which caused the seat washer to disentegrate to begin with.

Use plumber's grease on all threaded areas, and all moving parts of stem when reinstalling.

Make sure that stem is wound out in the open position when reinstalling stem. If this is not done, the stem will only partially screw into faucet housing, thus causing shortened stem travel for opening and closing of valve, and a potential leak inside of the wall that can go unnoticed.

Snug stem back into faucet, reinstall chrome trim for stem along with handle, and test for proper operation.

Make sure that brass bibb screw is tight holding seat washer to stem. Bibb screws can loosen up through operation of stem over time.

edited to add more info I just found:
http://www.stemdoctor.com/2_handle_bathroom_and_kitchen_faucet_repair.htm

Cartridge Type
This is known as a washer less faucet, but as you will soon see, most do use a type of washer. The most common type is made by Delta/Peerless, Valley, and some imported clones. Follow the above instructions, remove the cartridge and inspect the bottom for nicks and scratches. If nicked, it needs to be replaced. If not, look down into the hole that you took the cartridge from and at the bottom, you will see a black rubber piece. Pluck out this rubber seal and remove the spring below it also. Replace with the correct type. They all look about the same, so be sure to take in the cartridge to get the correct match. Most other types of cartridges cannot be rebuilt and must be replaced.

Now, my kit came with a rubber piece and spring, but I did not see anything else in the hole, and didn't feel anything back there either. I could just feel a solid back with a smaller hole in it.

Thanks for any input.

BTW, on an unrelated subject, for any of you who might be curious about how my job of tearing down the cabinets went, I decided to hold off until the end of October. I wanted to make sure I had some money on hand in case it did damage the ceiling so I could afford to fix it if I screwed up. When I get to it, I will update y'all:-)

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Okay ..... a few things .....

First, you may be mixing up two different faucet types. The first boxed quote in your post is about a compression type faucet. The second boxed quote that you added on edit is a about a 'washerless' type faucet. Assumng the illustration you posted is similar to your situation, then you have a compression faucet and the second boxed quote does NOT apply.

Here is an illustration that shows the two types side by side.



The 'cartridge' you refer to is technically called a 'stem assembly', not a 'cartridge'. It is heavy for its size and made primarily of brass. It has a removable rubber washer (seat washer), secured with a screw, at the bottom end of it. It may or may not have a second 'packing' washer, although most of them do. Held in the hand, one large part of it is screwed to the other large part of it on a very large sized thread. This is repaired by removing and replacing the rubber washer and then reinstalling the entire stem assembly.

The washerless type faucet has a plastic 'cartridge. The illustration shows a single handled faucet, but there also double handle faucets that work exactly the same way.. While called 'washerless' they really aren't. They have two (for one water temperature on double handle faucets) or three (for two water temperatures on single handled faucets) rubber washers set into the base body of the entire faucet assembly. These washers have springs behind them. These washers wear far, far less than do the washers in compression fauctes, but they, too, eventually do wear out. Anyway, this is not your faucet type (I don't think), so consider this paragraph as nothing more than background.

It does indeed sound as if you'll need to replace the valve seat. Note that in some rare cases, the seat is NOT replaceable and the entire faucet needs to be replaced. I doubt that's the case for you; most such faucets are like those you see where you attacch your garden hose outside and are only **very** rarely found in bathroom plumbing.

Here's a picture of a valve seat being removed.



In this picture, the stem assembly is already out of the faucet body. (The faucet handle you see in the picture is the 'other' one, still in place.) You need a seat wrench to do this. It is a very simple 'L' shaped tool with different size fittings on each end.

This is a picture of two faucet seats, removed from the faucet body.



Notice that they have threads and screw in. Notice, too, that the hole inside the center of them is squareish. It is into these holes that the stem wrench fits (as shown in my second illustration). One simply unscrews the seat to remove it and screws it back in to replace it.

If you go back and do this, I would also advise you to replace the two new washers you've alreay put in. It doesn't take too many turns on a worn valve seat to screw up a new washer pretty badly.

I hope this helps.

[Lisa0825]

2. Thanks. I will go back to Lowes and look for the tool I need.

Hopefully replacing the seat will do the trick!

[Lisa0825]

3. Time to give up.

I don't think it has a seat. I bought the seat wrench. With it, I was actually able to get the little rubber cap and spring out, which I couldn't get to before, and I replaced them with the new ones from the kit, thinking maybe that would do the trick. But now, it is is even worse. I tried putting the old cap and spring back in, but no go.

So now, I have to shut my water off completely because the leak is more like a faucet turned all the way on:-(

I won't be able to use my water without going outside to turn it on and off until Friday when I can have a plumber out here, and then I'll be out who knows how much money:-(

I am broke already, which is why I am trying so hard to do things myself, but I just keep either failing, or making things worse:-(

[NMDemDist2]

4. i'm sorry Lisa, plumbing is a tough one to learn on and the tub

is probably the hardest with everything being inside the wall with no shut off valve

:hug:

[Stinky The Clown]

5. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

Sometimes the smallest thing can create big issues for you.

Now that you're mentioning a small 'washer' and a spring, it sounds like you have a washerless faucet.

Its really hard to diagnose based on imprecise descriptions and illustrations of things that are 'sorta close'.

Do you happen to have a digital camera?

[Lisa0825]

6. I tried to take pictures of what the inside looked like,

but I can't get the light in there enough. What I have basically looks like the drawing I posted, but I can't tell you what it looks like inside, because I can't see it.

Do you think it would cost over $250 to have the faucet assembly replaced by a plumber? The pipes behind the wall are easily accessible by a panel that I already pulled off to look at it.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. I suppose it *could* run that high, but I'd expect it to be less than that

I'd guess maybe 150 or so .... but plumbers aren't cheap.

[Lisa0825]

8. I can handle that....

and if it is under $200, I may get him to do another small job while he is here.

With plumbers and auto mechanics, it just scares me to even call them because ya never know how much it will cost you!

[Lisa0825]

9. Plumber came today - all fixed up!

And it was only $87 both to fix the faucet and to snake the drain so it would drain better. Not bad! It didn't end up needing anything else done besides what I did. It just needed the right parts, and while the ones I had looked like the closest match, there was just a little difference at the bottom of the part, and that made all the difference. This is the second time this company had done a job for me for under $100, so I am pretty happy with them.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. That's great!

You did well. That's a good price for just paying a visit, let alone fixing things.

Are you now familiar with what you need in case it needs doing again?

[Lisa0825]

12. I don't know that I could have picked the right one....

I don't know if they even had it at Lowes. The one I picked looked just like it, as far as what was visible through the packaging. But there was a little metal disk on the bottom with a cut-out, which could not be seen in the package, and that part was a slightly different shape.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Its been my experience that the big box stores are not a good source ....

.... for these kinds of hardware items. Our local owner-operated hardware store is where I always go for this kind of thing. They have very knowledgeable people there who know more about what's installed in the houses in our area than even most of the homeowners know. They know every obscure faucet and furnace fitting and door hardware that matches that installed in hoses from the newest to the oldest.

Our guy has been fully independent, a Best Hardware, and now an Ace Hardware. But its still the same guy and he and some long term empoyees are still there, every day.

[NMDemDist2]

11. super news Lisa! N/T