Nikon D300 vs D700

[KewlKat]

I want to get something very special for my spouse. Many years ago he took some photography classes and really enjoyed them. I thought he had an eye for composition. He's been talking lately about our needing to go digital and wanting a digital he can change lens on. Prior to that conversation I had been thinking of a point and shoot by panasonic. So I did some research on the web, moved on to the Canon Rebel XSi but after talking to some folks at work, discovered the Nikons. My spouse is nearing retirement, his BDay and Fathers day are coming up and I want to get him an DSLR. While money is tight, we rarely splurge on much and I figure this will probably be our last camera purchase and I want to make the best decision. I'm not sure how often he'll use it and maybe either model is overkill at the moment, but I'm hoping if I get him a camera he can grow with, he'll get that urge once again to snap some pics.

B&H has the D700 with an instant rebate of 300.00 right now on the body only ($2,349.95) or I can get the D700 SLR Digital Camera with Nikkor 24-120mm VR Lens for $2,899.95. He does have some other lens from his 35mm days, but I'm not sure if they would work on this camera.

The price on the D300 is cheaper in a kit rather than to buy individually. It would run $1,899.95 with a 18-135mm Lens.

I understand that the D700 is full frame, the D300 is not. The folks I talked to at work said the D300 has stabilization lens but the D700 can't use those lens, or it can, but the stablization part wouldn't work? I hope I got that part right.

He's been use to the 35mm and I wondered if the cropping of pics with the D300 would be an issue for him. So, what are your opinions? Do I spring for the D700 or go with the D300? I have the money set aside so it would not be a hardship. Who knows, maybe I might even get to use it..... ;) We've just so rarely done much for one another through out the years (gift wise) and I also had hoped having a new camera would inspire him to get out more to find things to photograph and get him out of that chair that will do him in if he retires.

Thanks for the help.

[Mira]

1. You won't get the answer here, but you do get an opinion on a side issue and a.

little story.
I just took a trip with a couple of nice folks, where the man is a photographer with a dynamite eye, and mediocre equipment, and the woman NEVER takes a photo, and is not really interested in looking unless she can make him happy about his photo taking prowess.

He wanted a new camera, she bought it for him for his birthday.

He was out in the beautiful West of these gorgeous United States with a point and shoot with no viewfinder, and it had the advantage over his old point and shoot that it was 2 megapixels more, which is why the wife had chosen it, other than that it also was a Canon and the software would still work, and it was teeny tiny so it would be easy to carry.

I watched him be miserable, I watched him hit his forehead with the camera as he tried to look through a viewfinder, and then, startled, in the bright sun had to guess at what he was shooting, create shadow with his body to check if he had even succeeded at all. I watched him hardly take any pictures after a while, and I watched him suffer about it.

THE MORAL of my story (which obviously has only tiny peripheral similarities with yours)
"Don't chose his camera."
Beautifully wrap a box, and have the money inside, along with a note about the purpose for the money and why, then insist he can only spend it that way.

I love that you are doing this, and I love that you yourself might take some pictures.
I want to see the work of both of you soon, and I genuinely hope that I did not offend you.

[KewlKat]

2. No offense taken

When we do exchange gifts, which these past few years have been rare, it's money, go buy what you want. He wanted to buy me a new computer for xmas, but knew I'd want to pick out all the bells and whistles as he doesn't know the first thing about them. Well I still have the money and am making do with this dinasaur. He spends his, but on mostly small things for me, his mom, the kids, etc. I know if I give him money with a stipulation to pick one.......well, it's probably not going to happen (just like me) as he's a very giving person and would feel guilty over spending that kind of money on himself. Besides, I don't really want him to know just how much it costs......lol. He would think he's not worth it and he definitely is.

[Mira]

4. Oh -- thanks. You're not mad. It's easier from the outside to find ways to think

of different ways.....

I understand your dilemma very well.

You can put into the beautifully wrapped box two options, photos of cameras you want him to chose. No price tags, they will be omitted if at all possible.
Then put a letter into the box saying you tried to get advice, and learned he needs to make the choices himself.
Then write just why he is worth every cent he is about to spend, and emphasize additionally that he has earned every bit of it and "if not NOW, then WHEN".

Tell him that if he follows through on this you will love him even more because of the benefits you gain from him being happier, and the photos you'll enjoy, and the ways you have to explore something new together.
And then promise him that within a month of him having the camera you will have the computer.

Now, wasn't that easy?

[Tindalos]

5. Maybe a gift certificate to a camera store?

I tend to hang onto money for a rainy day too, never spending it on the intended presents. Maybe you could get a gift certificate for at least part of the money necessary and then pay for the rest once he decides which one he wants? That way he the money is already spent and he can't not use it.

[Celebration]

7. Or, can't a camera be returned within a certain time frame?

Maybe she could check the return policies of the stores. She could make a choice of one of the cameras, buy it, with the stipulation from the store that they keep the other in stock also, and it could be exchanged within 14 days or so. A picture of the second choice could be in the box.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. I agree with Mira

great sentiment, and both of them are fine cameras, I made the decision a year or so ago to to with d700 myself, but he should at least have input in the purchase

if he has old lenses from nikon, the d700 will use them just fine... which was my determinate factor

[MajorChode]

6. Here's my thoughts on the matter...

It sounds as if you've done at least some homework, but I'm not sure about the VR claims on the D700. Personally I would love it if my wife bought me a nicer camera. But if you're worried about the purchase, get it from either B&H or Adorama which have no hassle return policies. Just make sure you present them to him within the return period.

I believe the full frame D700 is a huge advance and for the same money (or about the same money) the D700 would be my definite first choice over the D300 unless I had a lot of DX lenses and even then I might still choose the D700. I wouldn't choose the 24-120mm VR lens even as much as I liked my old 24-120mm older Nikkor. There are better choices out there.

With all of that being said, in your situation I would NOT recommend buying a D700 or a D300. I wouldn't consider either a good long term purchase. The reason is either of those cameras are great if you just absolutely have to have the latest and greatest camera technology, such as if you are a pro or a serious amateur camera geek. The problem is, in just a few short years that camera will be worth only 1/3rd what it is today once Nikon has produced a few more advanced models. If your budget is limited, it is much smarter to invest in a lesser new or used Nikon and put your money into some nice lenses, which will hold their value much better. I would NOT recommend buying DX lenses as FX is almost certainly the direction of the future.

Consider buying a D80 or D90 and invest in one or two nice DX lenses. You won't be sorry.

Edit:
Almost any F mount Nikon lens will work on the newer DSLR bodies, however you will loose many of the capabilities of the camera. For instance, my old non-AI 105mm lens works fine on my D70, however since it has no CPU it won't even work with the D70 light meter which takes you back about 50 years technology wise to the days when cameras didn't have built-in light meters.

[ConsAreLiars]

8. I'd echo MajorChode's advice on staying away from the top end models.

If you put the $1000+ savings away for 3 years you will be have enough to buy a replacement body that far exceeds those sold in those $2300 packages.

As for the two bodies you were considering, both accept VR lenses, as do all current Nikon bodies (well, not sure about the latest version of the FM ("Fully Mechanical" film body) - it's just that a DX lens is designed to only cover the smaller DX-series sensors and won't cover the larger sensor of the full frame models. All older lenses will work with current digital camera, but, as said by MajorChode, some bodies are more compatible with older lenses than others in the sense that some functions, notably metering, might be lost with some bodies. I recently chose an older model D80 because it retains metering and autofocus with all AIS and later lenses, pricier models added features I didn't need, and the huge price jump to get a FX (full frame) digital body wasn't an option I could justify.

I would do an inventory of the lenses now owned, and check the specifications provided at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/ for the various models to see which lenses will work and retain whatever exposure metering and autofocus capabilities they had with older film backs.

One factor to consider in choosing a DX body vs. one with an FX sensor, apart from price, is that the effective focal length of the older lenses are effectively multiplied by 1.5. For telephotos, this is nice, since an 80-200 becomes 120 to 300mm, while for wide angles it degrades their capability, turning a 35mm into a 52mm. So if spouse really dug using a super-wide angle, you'd need to add in the price of replacement for that 16mm or 24mm lens, but the long telephoto lenses would get the equivalent of a free upgrade.

(The types of electrical and mechanical couplings between the body and lenses have changed over time. I think autofocusing on older lenses was driven by a motor in the body and a mechanical coupling while newer lenses put the motor on the lens and send instructions via an electronic connection, and such, and such as.... The D80 seemed designed to work with both, but some other models only worked with newer lenses.)


Or a gift certificate with a promise to help sort through the maze of details, with the $1000 held in reserve for the time if/when a newer body seems to be a good idea.

(edit to add a couple words)

[KewlKat]

9. Well, you've all given me some things to think about

OY! I talked to some photographers near where I work. They know me pretty well and know my spouse a bit. That could be a good thing or a bad thing....lol. At work they use both the D300 and D700 daily and one owns the Canon Rebel XSi. They've used many DSLRs over the years in their jobs. The one with the canon said money was a factor in his decision (he's helping to raise grandkids), but wished he could have afforded the D300. The other guy uses the D700 more often then the D300. I asked them what camera, any brand camera/model, should I be looking at to buy him and both told me to buy him the D300. I got to check theirs out and really liked the feel of the cameras and I'm sure my hubby will too. So, I will think on this a bit and decide what I'm going to do. If I buy local, I'm sure the price will be much higher. I was planning on purchasing from B&H and right now I'm leaning heavily to the D300.

So, thank you all for your input and maybe one of these days you'll see some of his pics posted here.....lol.

[regnaD kciN]

11. Not to be too much of a shill for my own brand...

...but the Sony A-700 uses the same image sensor as the D300 (it was developed by Sony, and later licensed by Nikon for the D300) for quite a bit less. Plus, the feature set is pretty much exactly the same except that the Sony has in-camera image stabilization built in, so it will provide stabilization for every lens attached to it without having to go to the expense of buying stabilized lenses. If your husband gets the desire to stock up on lenses, there are many fine ones available used (the Sony is successor to the Konica Minolta, and can use just about every Minolta lens issued since the late '80s), or he can get some top-quality lenses made for Sony by Carl Zeiss.

Although Canon and Nikon are the "big names" in D-SLR's (and have their hordes of rabid fans who will insist that "no serious photographer would ever use anything other than" their favorite), they aren't the only ones who produce quality cameras. IMHO, you can get offerings from Pentax, Olympus, and, yes, Sony that will more than equal the models from C&N, and generally for a better price.

You might want to check out this article I wrote on the subject of picking a D-SLR.

[BrightKnight]

10. To do the D700 properly would cost more than $6K...

The D700 is really a professional camera. Tacking a cheap kit lens on it kind of defeats the purpose. I would go with a Nikor 24 mm - 70mm 2.8 lens and possibly the 70mm - 200 mm 2.8 VR lens. Each of those lenses costs about $2K. The total cost would be over $6K to do it properly.

A D90 or D300 with the 18 mm - 135 mm kit lens would be more camera than most people need. If you want to boost the image quality add the Nikor 24-70mm 2.8 non DX lens for $1800. It will make a big difference to image quality and excellent lenses never go out of style. In a few years full frame sensors will be much cheaper and upgrading the body then will make more sense.

--
I prefer the Nikon DX to the Canon equivalent. The Nikon sensor is larger and they do not try to jack up the pixel density at the expense of image quality like Canon apparently does.