I'm thinking about using this one

[NV Whino]

or another similar for the portrait contest. I'm concerned, however about using a total stranger's photo for which I have no release and have no way to get in touch with the person. Obviously this was taken at a public event. I welcome comments on the ethics of using this. Thanks.

[priller]

1. I think the law is...

...if a person is in a public place and doesn't have a reasonable expectation to privacy, then posting a picture of them is fine.

[NV Whino]

2. Thanks.

I just have this fear of someone seeing it and saying, "Oh my God! That's granma!"

[Ms. Toad]

7. That's only a legal problem

if they tell granma, and granma cares...

[Ms. Toad]

5. See post #4 n/t

[JeffR]

3. Just read a very relevant PDF by a lawyer

for the American Society of Media Photographers. You can download it here:

http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=609

Well worth reading!

[Ms. Toad]

6. Read it , but ...

if you care about complying with the law with respect to the use of someone's image you will need to do a check for the specifics of the state in which the photograph was taken. With respect to right of publicity/right of persona the article implies that it only applies to photos of public figures - in many states the laws are not limited to public figures.

I didn't read the rest of the article carefully - so I won't comment on the accuracy or whether the general summary is sufficient outside of this limited area. (Note, however, the article is apparently directed to Media Photographers - and there are somewhat different rules that apply to journalists.)

[RagingInMiami]

10. There really are no distinct rules that apply to media photographers

and not the general public. The media is the general public. They do not get special privilages under the law.

They might have easier access because they know how to work the system better or they have developed sources, but when it comes down to it, they are not above the law that applies to everybody.

For example, journalists constantly request public records from police departments and city governments, but those records are also available to the general public.

[NV Whino]

8. That pretty much answers the legal question, but

I'm not so much concerned with legality. I have a good handle on that.

Perhaps a better description of my question is one of personal ethics. And just as Ms Toad has expressed her reservations about posting a beautiful photo of a child, I have the same reservations of posting a photo of a beautiful old woman.

In other words, what would you (a collective you in this case) do in this situation? Ignore this particular photo for the moment, I'm not asking about quality of photo. Think in terms of a hypothetical photo that would perfectly meet the criteria of this particular contest, which was taken candidly at a public event.

[JeffR]

9. It's a thorny question, but - hypothetically -

There was no expectation of privacy, and since I'm assuming the event was a demonstration against that-which-we-struggle-against, the person in the photo might take pride in the image being shared. But again, it's strictly hypothetical, and I appreciate that I might be very much mistaken.

[RagingInMiami]

11. To me, ethics applies in how you present the photo

If you manipulate to the point where it presents a false context, then that is unethical. If you present it in it's true light (with the basic editing and processing that improves the photo but does not alter its context), then that is ethical.

I tend to much more liberal in this way of thinking because of my background working for newspapers.

[RagingInMiami]

12. That was a good one

I bookmarked it. Thanks.

[Ms. Toad]

4. No comment on ethics...

But states have wildly varying laws on right of publicity/right of persona. Whether you can legally use the image (including posting it here in depends on what state it was taken in, whether the person is a resident of that state, whether she (and the officer behind) are currently living or dead, and whether the image is being used for commercial purposes (including in some instances fundraising for non-profits) among other things. (Right of persona/publicity laws don't generally depend on whether the image was taken in a public place.)

I have an exquisite picture of a child I cared of for for a week last summer that I would love to enter here, but probably won't. Angelic expression, perfect lighting, etc. Both for legal reasons (I don't have the time or energy to sort out the law of the state in which it was taken), and because a lot of people are sensitive about their image showing up on the internet I probably won't. My concerns about the legality of using images of people without their consent is one of the reasons I voted or the other option.

[China_cat]

13. Wouldn't it also have a lot to do with whether

the photographer was making money from the use of the photo as opposed to freely showing it?

[RagingInMiami]

14. Well if the photographer sells it to a newspaper or magazine

for editorial purposes, then as far as I know, that is still considered non-commercial. But if he sells it where it ends up being used as an advertisement, then that is considered commerical purposes.

I've never heard of model release forms being used in newspapers whether the photo was taken by a staff or freelance photographer.

[TahitiNut]

15. I think of it as the "Betty Crocker Rule"

We don't need permission or a release to show her drunk on the street or nude in the lake, but General Mills had to pay her (and get a signed release) to use her image to sell their products. Furthermore, Andy Warhol could Photoshop her picture to his heart's content and sell it as art.

[alfredo]

16. You are not using it for commercial purposes, right?

If they say no, I won't take their picture. I think very few would protest you using the image for non commercial work. If you were using it to ridicule or target them for harassment or violence, then maybe they would protest.

I have one from a protest from last year: the good old days

[NV Whino]

17. Thanks for all the comments

Now I just have to decide if this is the one I want to use.