I'm really surprised to see all these Kerry supporters here

[New Earth]

who dont' seem to give a hoot about what's going on with the election..


Or am i just used to talking about it 24/7, that i feel like it's bare in here?

How does everyone here feel about it? Are you following it closely? Do you still have any hope Kerry will win this in the end?


**i didn't mean 'don't give a hoot' in a mean way. :)

[GRLMGC]

1. I just figured this was a haven

where we wouldn't have to get all controversial. I though that's what every other forum was for.

[JI7]

2. i think

as the other poster said, this seems more a place to just get away from some of the things in other forums and mostly just post some nice things on Kerry.

as for the voting issue, i think most of us are just looking to see what comes out. personally i'm not getting my hopes up about results changing since i don't want to be disappointed. i'm more looking at the issue through concern for accuracy and fairness in voting and counting the votes.

[Withywindle]

3. Oh, I definitely give a hoot...

I'm reading and following more than I'm talking, though.

Honestly, I just don't know who to believe anymore, after all these tiring cycles of flareups of evidence that seem so damning and then fade. My head's spinning from all the shouting.

Do I have any hope that Kerry will win this in the end? Meaning before January 20? Sadly, no, although I would LOVE to have some. Do I have hope that perhaps irrefutable proof will have piled up by, oh, 2006 or '07 (when we might have a hope of having more seats in the House and Senate so people on our side will actually have a little power to do something about it) and maybe Bushco will go down in a trail of stink like Nixon, and that Kerry will have been so crucial to this process (quietly! at least at first!) that he'll be the obvious 2008 frontrunner and *then* finally claim the place that was rightfully his four years before? Yeah, that I could believe.

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. You about summed up my views on things

Kerry will take Bush down a la BCCI, election fraud will be exposed, Bush & Co will leave in a disgrace worse than Nixon's, and Kerry will win the support of the American people (damn near all of them) and become one of the best presidents America will ever have.

This, to me, is almost preferable to Kerry winning outright in '04, because if Bush simply loses the election, he will still have his base of supporters who will never give Kerry any quarter. Bush needs to leave office in the ignominy he deserves; he needs to go down in FLAMES. The only way to wake the country from its trance is for Bush to be shamed and disgraced and removed from the White House in dishonor. We need to have a Germany 1945 moment (but preferably without the bombed cities and ravaged country). I hope everyone continues to keep up with the election 2004 situation, but I do think it'll take a couple of years for all the shit to hit the fan - and when it does, I want front row seats to Bushco's disintegration.

[Withywindle]

6. Yes.

I worry about this country being desensitized to scandal, though. I feel that Bushco has already done a dozen things worse than Watergate--and they're fairly common knowledge! Why is he so impervious?

Here's a really dark thought I've been having too, keeping getting fueled by all the reports of people being run off the road by freepers, beaten, harrassed, threatened, pets killed, etcetera. The hate level in this country is the worst I've ever seen it--and they WON this round! (Even if they won very dirty) Romantic as it might be to imagine huge Velvet Revolution rallies in the square with Kerry as our True Leader leading the charge...isn't there a good chance that could turn awfully bloody? No, not metaphorically. And since you know the neo-cons have been drooling over the opportunities martial law can give, wouldn't this be their shining moment much more than ours?

[LittleClarkie]

7. I think absolute power corrupts absolutely

and I see evidence that Republicans that are NOT freepers are nearly as disgusted as we are. They see the hypocracy of having a rule under Clinton about not being allowed to serve if you are indicted, but recinding that rule when it's your guy who's in trouble. The see the folly of pushing through an amendment that allows foreigners to become president, knowing there might be someone later who will make you regret that. There are Republicans who do not support this war, do not like Ashcroft and Rummy, and are appalled by the deficit.

The more grotesque the ruling minority is in their smug celebration, the more repulsed people will become. I still think there are more sane people around than it seems at the moment. They just need to be awakened. Politics is not an addiction for some of these people the way it is for us.

The neo-cons and freepers only seem more plentiful because they're loud and proud. We should be getting that 1945 moment sometime in the next four years, I believe. (I hope and I pray)

Sooner if we go to war with Iran. That will be the "buyer's remorse" moment for a couple of Repubs I know, esp. if accompanied by the dreaded draft. Let's see if Bushco is that damn dumb.

Meanwhile, I still mourn for what could have been. I dreamed that we could save the country from what is about to happen. But apparently the country needs what is to come to see clearly what has been happening since 9/11. They need this "deprograming moment." Damn it.

[GRLMGC]

5. Yeah, what you said

I agree. I highly doubt his Royal Highness will be deposed by Jan 20. I think your scenario is the most plausible.

[New Earth]

8. ok, thanks for answering

i wasn't saying we need to start talking about it all over this forum, i was just curious who here is following it closely. There are some I see over in election 2004, and others i haven't....i was just curious, that's all.

sorry i asked :(

[JI7]

9. don't be sorry

ask us anything anytime you want to on here.

[New Earth]

10. ok

:grouphug:

[Siyahamba]

11. I went to Columbus on the 4th

And I'm going to Lansing on the 12th.

[paulk]

12. I agree with the posters upthread

this forum hasn't really been a place to talk politics. On the other hand, maybe it is a good place to say what you really feel, without the threat of the Hate Kerry Krew jumping down your throat.

It seems pretty clear to me that the election was stolen. I don't even need specifics, just my own gut feelings and Occam's Razor will do. We know that electronic vote fraud is do-able, and we know that the Neocons are capable of doing it.

I have this really strong premonition that neither Bush or Cheney will finish their terms. This election feels to me like Nixon's reelection - there's just too much shit out there and sooner or later it has to float to the surface (what a horrible metaphor!).

It may be Kerry's role right now to work behind the scenes, a la Iran Contra/BCCI, to bring these crooks down - that may, in the long run, be more valuable than serving as President with a hostile Congress.

[GRLMGC]

13. I totally agree

the Bush/Cheney administration is too corrupt and evil to last all eight years. I hope Bush is another Nixon. If anyone is more deserving, it's him. He's so much worse than Nixon. I also agree that Kerry is better working behind the scenes. If he were to take office, he'd have the worst time trying to get anything done.

[seito]

18. Much as I hate to think about it,

I think you are right paulk. We may need to survive Bush/Cheney for a bit longer than we had hoped, but at least we will have the satisfaction of watching them go down. (...and may the same fate befall the rest of the crooks)

[JohnKleeb]

14. I care but I am not upset

The fight goes on as they say. I was really upset the first few days but a good friend really helped convinced me every little thing will be all right.

[sandnsea]

15. Hysteria isn't a good thing

That's how I feel about it. There are definitely huge problems with the voting machines. Huge problems with voter disenfranchisement. I think the second we started screaming "fraud", with not one shred of evidence to back it up, we lost any hope of discovering problems that might have overturned this election. I think it will be a miracle if anything concrete is discovered now. Which doesn't mean we don't need to keep working on clean elections, I just don't think we're going to get there from here, so to speak.

[JI7]

16. i think

it might not be fraud in the sense that voting machines were programmed in a certain way to favor bush unfairly but rather things such as just not providing enough voting machines in heavily democratic areas on purpose. and other things which could be common unintentional problems that could arise anywhere, but in this case it was intentional. in this case many people who wanted to vote never got to. this is of course the limit with how much recounts can help. recounts itself wont solve the problem. but i guess it doesn't hurt.

the fact that Ohio is controlled by Republicans doesn't help, and we know the Justice Department under Bush wont do anything. it just shows how important it is to get some Democrats elected statewide in states such as for Governor, state Attorney General, state Sec of state etc. then we can have someone with some statewide power to help make sure things are ok and someone to go to . but at this point even if there was an investigation i sure wouldn't trust it conducted by the Republicans in power.

i know crowd size at rallies probably isn't scientific evidence of anything but i do remember during the primaries that Kerry's crowd size did get larger along with his poll numbers. this was true not just in iowa but in later states also. and of course the polls including exit polls were very accurate during the primary. Dick Cheney had trouble attracting anyone to any of his events while Bush's almost never got filled up. i remember once watching a Bush rally where it looks like it could be crowded with a closer up shot but when the cameras pulled back you could see half or more than half of the stadium was empty. Kerry's events were always filled up and had to turn people away because they didn't have enough room including in very hot or very cold rainy or snowy type weather.

[TayTay]

17. Sometimes an issue simmers for a while then explodes

I go back and forth in my mind about the election fraud. Sometimes I think that Kerry should get involved because he needs to take the part of the wronged party in order to bring more media attention to this matter. At other times I feel that this would be the wrong thing to do, that the issue is bigger than the candidate and must be addressed on it's own merits. I go back and forth in my head.

This is not a candidate-driven issue. This is a moral issue. (I think of it as a Superman issue; in that it's about 'Truth, Justice and the American Way.' Really.) And it has a sort of unquieting and irritating quality that makes it hard to dismiss and makes it easy to worm it's way into the American stream of consciousness. I don't think this is going to go away. I think it's going to gnaw at the American soul until something is done.

I see this as something that will become an issue in the next election cycle. The genuine anger that is out there is not going to be happy until something concrete is done.

[txindy]

19. Oh, my

You're not really going to make me start an "I Believe" thread in here, are you? Because I do. And I will. If my sig line was visible, that would be kind of obvious.

The 2004 Election Results and Discussion forum is....'interesting' at the moment. Flying monkeys abound. I love this group.

I am feeling hopeful. Hopeful, angry, and determined. I am following everything closely and I will never give up on the belief that John Kerry and John Edwards will be leading our government as of January 20, 2005.

[New Earth]

20. woohoo!!

nice to hear it. i was thinking i was the only one over here! :grouphug:

[bunny planet]

22. Oh no, you are not the only one. I go back and forth reading the

2004 election threads and then popping over here for a fix of Kerry love.:loveya: I very much want to believe that through hard work, and dogged litigation, and a large bit of luck, we will have our true President, John Kerry inaugurated on January 20th, 2005. I will not accept 'four more years of hell', as Teresa so aptly described life under His Fraudulency for another term.

[Der Blaue Engel]

21. Yes, do!

It actually made me feel some real hope when I read that thread before, but it was so long that my computer couldn't handle loading it. Then last night some yahoo posted the copycat I BELIEVE thread, and I thought at first it was the same thread started over due to the length of the other, then got smacked in the face with negativity and derision.

The little things like I BELIEVE are what keep me hanging on. :)