August 2004 - The Response to the Swift Boat Vets

[sandnsea]

I posted something similar in GD. But here's the details, in case anybody needs them in the future. The campaign responded. But we didn't have the unified party outrage that we are getting with Murtha and got with Hackett. That's the difference, because the campaign did respond. 3 different times, this was the 3rd attack from the swift boat vets

Here's what the Kerry campaign and John Kerry REALLY DID in August of 2004.

Between August 4 and August 19, Cutter said the campaign relied on the news media, surrogates and 700 letters to the editor to discredit the charges, including Carville taking on O’Neill on Crossfire on August 12.

On August 19 at the IAFF convention, Kerry stated "They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the president won't denounce what they're up to tells you everything you need to know: he wants them to do his dirty work.” After noting the Navy records that awarded him his medals, he added "Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam.”

The campaign releases Rassmann ad, "All these Viet Cong were shooting at me. I expected I'd be shot. When he pulled me out of the river, he risked his life to save mine."

On August 21, the campaign released the internet ad “Old Tricks” along with this statement: “A front group for the Bush campaign called "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is continuing to spread their lies about John Kerry's military record. Their statements have been contradicted by official Navy records, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune and every man who served under John Kerry -- yet George Bush refuses to condemn their tactics. Through his silence, George Bush is approving their action. And Bush campaign officials in Florida are even promoting events for this front group.

Enough is enough. No matter what these Bush campaign shills now say, John Kerry's commanders remarked in 1969 that, "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed." In fact, all of John Kerry's performance reports (available on our website) display an absolutely heroic record of service.”

On August 25, Max Cleland attempted to deliver a letter to George Bush asking “where is his shame to attack a fellow veteran who has distinguished himself in combat?"

[beachmom]

1. This is so true, and I remember it

To be honest, it was the Clintonistas who started this false campaign of saying that "Kerry didn't fight back" after Kerry lost in November. They're positioning Hillary. The thing is that in 2005 Kaine only fought back the Hitler ads with one ad. In fact, it was the editorial pages of nearly every newspaper in Virginia that debunked and discredited the Kilgore ads. This was not liberal bias, but simple decency on the press's part. I just think it is utter bulls*** when people blame Kerry for not fighting back against outright lies that were debunked over and over again, yet STILL ended up on cable every night. If the media was responsible, then they would have blacked out this crap which was only fit for the National Enquirer, if that.

[ray of light]

2. True...

But he didn't respond 'with fire' and I think that's what the GD objects too.

But the media fully continued the smear even after the facts were out.

Also it didn't help that Kerry pulled the John McCain add upon McCains request and friendship. Instead of showing how wonderful Kerry is to respect his friends wishes, McCain returned the favor as did the media by allowing the lies to continue.

McCain makes me :puke:

[politicasista]

3. He still should have defied his so-called advisors

I think that's what there problem is too. He should have stood up to those evil men. That's why whenever I spread the word about Kerry's speeches of late, they reply to me and say, "nice, but he should have done this last year." The perception was that he couldn't stand up to the SB liars and *, how could he stand up to the terrorists?

[sandnsea]

4. Sorry, I don't think that's true at all

I don't know one single person who has said that. Not one. In fact, I don't know anybody who has referred to them at all except to say they were shameful. The biggest thing I hear is that Democrats didn't have a plan, or that it was the same as Bush's, which our own lovely left helped spread. I think this swift boat crap is alot bigger deal among Democratic activists then it ever was with the voting public. Remember, exit polls showed that people believed KERRY attacked more than Bush.

[politicasista]

8. I have noticed that SBV are an issue for Dems and not the GOP

interesting. :shrug: I am learning, so I need to read the real story.

[beachmom]

5. I have to respectfully disagree with this line of thinking

The only proper way for John Kerry to defend his honor would be to challenge O'Neill to a duel. And I'm not kidding. If JK TALKED about it, it took the story up the food chain and made it a legitimate story. This is exactly what happened. No, the press decided there "must be something to this, since so many veterans signed on with the SBVT", and it wouldn't matter what he said. Evidence didn't seem to mean a damn thing.

Now I'm thinking back to that 60 Minutes, when Clinton had been accused of having an extramarital affair with Gennifer Flowers, and he appeared with Hillary, and looked the camera in the eye and all of that. But this was during the primary season. August was late in the game. I don't know, maybe an interview on 60 Minutes or some other doc type program with Kerry and his crewmates laying out a case against the SBVT? In early '04 maybe, but in August '04? I guess what I can't figure out how precisely Kerry would have done it if he had "fought back" the way people wanted him to. McCain "fought back" in '00, and came across as a crybaby. This didn't happen with Kerry. I mean a couple of you didn't even like him saying he said "I was wrong" before Edwards, imagine what it would look like if he had to talk about his entire Vietnam experience, defending himself. He would have been sounding like he was flattering himself. You know, "The reason why I am a war hero is . . . " I don't like the sound of that. Sometimes he has to defend himself, but in general, I think he is a humble person.

I guess I'm throwing down a challenge to anyone on this board on how Kerry could have fought back, without it not coming across as either just more "he said, he said" or worse, making him look like a whiner or self promoter.

[politicasista]

6. I guess I was remembering an interview

with Tom Joyner and the gang back when the SBL went on air. The first thing Tom told him that he didn't think he was fighting back hard enough. I know the media did NO favors by giving them airtime to spew their venom rather than talk about the issues, but they thought that if he couldn't defend himself, it would cost him the election.

I do rememember the polls saying that Kerry attacked more than *, which we all know wasn't true.

[whometense]

7. I have to say

that I pretty much agree with you here, right down the line.

The most diabolical aspect of the SwiftBoatSliming was that it put Kerry in a damned if you do/damned if you don't, when did you stop beating your wife kind of situation. And like the IWR vote. It's a Rovian specialty, and the fact that so-called lefties still think this way just makes my blood boil. They need to grow the fuck up.

[politicasista]

9. I agree.

They're worse them elementary school kids. :crazy:

[karynnj]

11. A duel? Burr- Hamilton ended badly for both

I think, as you said in another post and as Sandsea's list shows, he did fight back. I think one lost oppurtunity was that some very prestigious person - maybe Shinsecki (sp?) or another retired General or Jimmy Carter (morality and all and a vet) should have made an emotional speech about the lack of decency of the purple band aids and repeated Kerry's comment that he had he medals for 35 years and his record is there and even Nixon found him clean (about 2 years he returned)

A veteran other than Kerry (Clealand?) could have called on Bush/Cheney or McCain (as a friend/vet)to publicly on the stage of the RNC tell people to remove them as they diminish an award given to soldiers at a time of war. (The danger in Kerry doing it is they would throw back at him the 1971 throwing away medals.

I do think a 60 minutes in August with Kerry's crew and some of Kerry's peers - without Kerry- would have been nice and not just to disput the SBVT. Their stories show such a concerned, kind, likeable person. I loved the one ad (that I saw only on the blog - cause NY/NJ was very blue and a very expensive market) where one of his crew talked of Kerry quietly coming and putting a hand on his shoulder and asking if he was ok after they returned from dangerous missions and how in his entire tour no other officer had ever done that.

I like it because it was real and involved a very small gesture that the man remembered in gratitude 35 years later. It also immediately brought to mind the McCain story of Kerry putting a hand on McCain's arm to calm him down when the POW/MIA conspiracy people attacked him. In both cases, Kerry seemed to being acting very intuitively to offer reassurance or solidarity. This is definately not the action of a cold, aloof, elitest snob - these actions define him more clearly than what his athletic hobbies are.

[whometense]

12. And he's that same man today.

I don't know if you saw my post a few weeks back. At that Selma to Boston commemoration march TayTay and I attended he made a very kind gesture towards the woman who was challenging Boston mayor Menino, who was standing awkwardly off to one side. It was a tiny thing, and I have no idea how many people saw it, but to me it demonstrated the essence of the man in the same way.

[karynnj]

15. In a way, it's so little things that convince me he is for real

It probably did make her feel far more welcome and from your description it was just a kind gesture.

[whometense]

17. I know for certain it made a huge difference to her

because of the way she smiled at Kerry when he waved at her - a big, radiant smile. And then when he walked over to her he hugged her. Kerry saw and understood her discomfort (she was fighting a losing campaign and you know how people treat political also-rans), and he very kindly did something about it. It was a gesture of pure grace. He could easily have pretended not to notice her. Everyone else did.

[karynnj]

20. How sweet

[beachmom]

21. Okay maybe the duel point was pushing it!!

But I just don't see how he could fight these directly without coming out looking bad. He mentioned once (after the campaign) that all of them should sign 180s because they have stuff on their records. And I remember thinking, no, no, no, JK, you need to continue to rise above this. Do it like *, and have somebody do it for you (ha, ha).

But I like a lot of the points you have all made. Yeah, I was very impressed with how he said he would run a campaign if he runs in '08. I want him to be president so bad, that it is just heartening to hear him make these little hints, that my hopes and dreams are aligned with his, and he can make this country a beacon to the world again.

[karynnj]

23. I thought it was funny - and initially typed that we had to specify

swords, not guns - Kerry having been on the Yale fencing team , but decided it was too silly - and because your main question and points were so good.

[beachmom]

24. I think now that what I was trying to say was that he would have to have

been in a duel AND died in it. Only then, would his full honor be restored. People are going to believe what they want to believe, and once the cat was out of the bag on all the cable channels, there was no way to really undo the damage.

By the way, I think I have told you guys before that I knew someone who asked me one week before the election if either * or Kerry had ever served in Vietnam. Poor Karl Rove -- all that work, and still there were apathetic voters who simply weren't going to give a sh** until the last minute.

[Island Blue]

27. Maybe Kerry should have challenged O'Neil to a debate

like they had on the Dick Cavett show 30+ years ago. Kerry whipped him good then. I'm sure if a similar debate happened today, O'Neil would be slinking away with his tail between his legs. (I'm really only joking here - I don't think Sen. Kerry should stoop so low as to honor O'Neil with his presence.)

Anyway, I agree with what a lot of you have already said. There was really no way Kerry could have defended his own honor last year without the media pounding him for it. (He's whinny, can't take the pressure, etc.) Just like now, it's not up to Murtha to defend his own honor. That's what his crew mates (fellow Democrats) are for. To bad more of these folks didn't stand up for Kerry last year.

[frogmarch]

10. What was it that Kerry said

yesterday in one of the interviews, about having learned a lot since the 04 race as to taking on smear campaigns waged against him? It was something to the effect that he would be a very tough fighter next time, if he decided to run again. When he said it, he had a very resolute look on his face.

[fedupinBushcountry]

13. Don't forget

Kerry came out against these sleazeballs back in March of '04. I'll have to search to see if I can find the transcript from GMA with Charklie Gibson, I never watched GMA again after Gibson was a total ass, and I let him know and so did many others.

The thing is Rove was so behind this. Kerry nipped it in the bud in March and it went away and then all of a sudden it comes back right after the convention, when Kerry was vunerable money wise. These people are the most disgusting bunch I have ever seen, and Rove is behind it all. IMO.

[frogmarch]

14. I didn't forget

that Kerry came out against the slimeboaters. I think what he meant was that he'd know more of what to expect from the assholes, and wouldn't be taken off-guard or short-funded in fighting them.

I totally agree the swifties are a disgusting bunch. And yes, Rove was behind it all. I heard the conservative Olbermnan had on his show last night to talk about Bush's circle closing in, say gleefully that Rove was gearing up for the 06 races. Rove is evil. I hope he gets what's coming to him someday soon.

Edited to say 06 races, not 05. Geez.

[fedupinBushcountry]

16. Also

in my thinking. Kerry came out himself in March before others joined the campaign. I think he knows the mistakes he made and I think one of them is having to many Clinton guys on the team. Thats my thinking anyways.

[whometense]

19. I agree.

If he runs again, it will be all tough Boston guys and bare knuckles. I relish the idea of that fight.

[karynnj]

22. From all that has been said the self important Clinton people

were more trouble than they were worth. I think only McCurty (sp?) had nice things said about them.

Think of it, Hillary inherits all of them.

[frogmarch]

18. Anyone know

how many swifties have dropped out since the Kerry smear campaign? I know that while it was going on, some did, saying they were against the anti-Kerry campaign.

Just wondering how powerful they still are, especially since they all must know by now their leader had a personal ax to grind with Kerry, and that their leader is a con man, a crook and a hustler - and that some of the other swifties were too.

[emulatorloo]

25. I remember all that, but what I don't remember is MAJOR DEMS stepping

up to the plate to defend John Kerry. I believe Harkin of Iowa said something in Kerry's defence, but what about the other Dems. Nothing. Shameful.

[jenndar]

26. Hear, hear. n/t