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Oh good grief, this beats even Kos!

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 11:07 PM
Original message
Oh good grief, this beats even Kos!
Over at DailyKos, someone has posted that Kerry should be sued for the 15 million in donations they think they deserve to get back.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/12/22297/6827

Pathetic.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow
They...just...don't...get...it.

Blame the consumer culture--everybody want's to get what they "pay" for. :eyes:

Is it just me, or are people getting nuttier and nuttier??
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Not just you.
Edited on Fri May-13-05 06:44 AM by BlueIris
And honestly, like so many of you, and our mods, I'd like that to change. I'm thinking up ideas for how it might be possible for us, within the Kerry group forums here, to try to help, even more than we are already, make that change reality. Because this newest twist on the madness is the most insane, offensive crap I've encountered since the Swift Boat assholes pulled their stunt last summer. It's truly ludicrous. Non-sensical. Irrational. Makes me embarrassed for the person who put that stuff out there.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hope you told them exactly how pathetic they are n/t
I would, but I don't want to register There.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. This is what I said
The money was left over from the primaries (none / 0)

And had nothing to do with "counting every vote". That was the GELAC fund, if I recall. And that went toward paying those 10000+ lawyers.

Sorry, your money wasn't labeled "ABB". You contributed to John Kerry, whether you like it or not. And as primary money, I imagine much of it was from folks who actually wanted HIM to be president.

I'm getting mighty sick of the whining. For pete's sake, Gore had about 8 million left, and nobody cried about that, did they. He didn't cough it up until it was obvious Kerry was going to be the nominee.

Go ahead and try to find a lawyer for your suit. How about Don McTigue. Oh no, wait a minute. He's busy. With a lawsuit in Ohio on behalf of Kerry/Edwards. So much for not trying to make sure every vote counted.

Of course some of the money went to Dean. You want that back too? And the money that was given to the DCCC to help them win in the mid-terms. You want that back as well?

Then there was the money given to help out Christine Gregoire in Washington, and the Dems involved in runnoff elections in Lousiana. But that money's already spent. Sorry.

Get. over. it.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. "Get. over. it" indeed. What's sad is that they think there's some
Edited on Fri May-13-05 06:37 AM by BlueIris
horrible crime Kerry committed here that they subsequently need to be told to get over. GOD. What goddamned morons short-sighted, confused individuals.
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. That is pathetic. But did they do the same with Dukakis or Mondale?
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Not to sue is leading in the poll
At least not everyone bought into this nonsense.

The absurd thing is that if Dean had won and lost, you know the money would have gone to his organization, and none of them would be complaining.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. Well. That's the most insane criticism I've seen lobbed at Kerry.
Seriously. Not exaggerating. To me, that is SO MUCH WORSE than the ridiculous Skull & Bones spec. GOOD LORD.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. Childishness and stupid
When you freely donate money to a candidate you lose your right to say what happens to that money. It is not 'yours' anymore. You gave it away. Unless someone held a gun to your head and threatened your children, it is presumed that this was an act of free will, not coercion. The money belongs, legally and morally, to John Kerry. He can do what he wants with it, within the parameters of the law.

What truly irks the Kerry-carpers is that the Senator has money left over and will use that money to make contributions to other Democrats in important upcoming races. This might build goodwill for Kerry and create political obligations should the Senator choose to run nationally again. The carpers feel that Kerry should become a political monk and hide away in some abbey somewhere and forfeit his rights as a prior Nominee of the Democratic Party for President of the United States. This is not going to happen.

I suggest that the carpers include a codicil in with their next political contributions that explicitly states that their money can only be used in a way that they like. This is illegal and without standing, but it might make them feel better. Perhaps they should start with their DNC contributions. Should the national DNC not do everything the contributor wants, they get their money back. That would be a start and would show the rest of the political world how true cry babies accomplish their selfish ends.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. Why do you think they are doing this to Kerry, what never japanned before
Edited on Fri May-13-05 08:49 AM by karynnj
What seems very strange to me is that this time last cycle, the conventional wisdom was that if Gore wanted to run again, he not only COULD, but he deserved another chance because he had actually won (or at minimum came very close).

My guess is that although, Gore didn't have an uncontested primary, the Bradley supporters genuinely supported Gore after Bradley conceded. The Bradley supporters were mainstream, rational and adult and they saw Gore as the rightful nominee and the primaries as very normal politics.

Last year, there was an open primary. Dean (along with Kuchinich) was supported by the angriest part of the left, many of whom I suspect were not previously involved in normal electoral politics. Their anger over the war and the theft of the Presidency motivated them, so Dean became almost more a "cause" than a "candidate". Dean, who showed his anger and spoke of taking back America, was a leader for them. In fact, I wonder if they led Dean (causing him to act and sound very different than the relatively moderate/conservative Democrat he was as Governor) or whether he created a message to attract them and they were drawn to him by it. But I think this led them to their idea that Dean was liberal and not a politician, while Kerry was a standard run of the mill DLC Washington politician - and they were unwilling to process anything they read or hear contrary to these images.

When Dean and his followers failed to win enough Iowans, due to failures in their own campaign and of their candidate, an angry subset of them blamed everyone but themselves. Compared to Kerry they had all the advantages - Gore's and Harkin's endorsements, a period of fawning press coverage, and more money than anyone; Kerry was dealing with financial problems, very little press coverage other than discussions of when he would give up, and he was dealing with having cancer. Kerry was lucky that Rassman surfaced shortly before the primary, but the quiet work of meeting with people and convincing them that he could be President created his win. (Kerry was also probably helped because Dean yelled at an older guy who was asking (annoying) questions to sit down and whined on TV that he didn't like being a pin cushion.)

As Kerry beat Dean, this subset turned their anger to Kerry, dreaming up ways in which he was unfair to Dean. They still insist that he fought harder and dirtier against Dean than against Bush - which is ludicrous. (In fact, he talked far more about himself in the primary than about all the others combined. He DID spend a lot of time talking about the wrong direction Bush was leading the country in.) They then said they were "holding their noses and voting for Kerry" to get rid of Bush.

When this failed, they, already hating him for the sin of not conceding the primaries to Dean, the only candidate who could win, blamed Kerry for losing to Bush, the worst President ever. There is always a natural tendency for people to hang with people who are like them, so there are the often cited "How could he win, everyone I know (in Manhattan (or I wish it would have been(rural Texas)) voted against him. The INTERNET further exasperates this as even extremely small minorities can find a group of like souls and then hypothesize that they represent a much larger universe than they do. Kos and Co have attracted a lot of this Dean subset. They talk to each other, find they all really didn't like Kerry - and then say no one in the Democratic party liked Kerry (except maybe his family).
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Great analysis
I love your posts.

You're right about the echo chamber, too. It's usually the same dozen or so usual suspects, but to hear them talk you'd think they represent the overwhelming majority of liberals. :eyes:
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree--
These are newbies to politics who think it is all so simple. Dean appealed to that sensibility with his unequivocal statements during the primaries, especially the anti-war ones, that they could really latch onto. Now they are poor lost sheep without a shepherd, wishing for what might have been. Dean has gone back to being the centrist that he has always been, and anyway is out of the running for 2008.

Another factor in the mix: I truly believe that DU and probably Kos are regulary invaded by RW trolls who keep these same far-left newbies stirred up, particularly against Democrats who currently have power. "Kerry betrayed us!", "Reid is a sell-out!", "Clinton is a DINO!" Think about it: infiltrating DU regularly with RW disruptors is simply too easy. No conceivable reason that they would fail to use this opportunity both here, and on other Dem message boards and blogs. My first reaction to posts like these is that they are from the "outside"! It IS usually the same dozen or so names, isnt' it?
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Maybe in some cases
but that wouldn' t apply to the long term bloggers like Kos who are as bad. While theoreticlaly possible, I doubt that this type of people are secret trolls from Rove.
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