You know, you guys rock!

[TayTay]

This was a bad day. I can take criticism, but the whole Gay Marriage attacks bothered the crap out of me. It's so unfair. Kerry has a voting record on civil rights that I would put up against anyones. So for him to be bashed about this is just disgusting.

And it came from another story in the Boston Globe. (And the McCain thing in the Boston Herald didn't help.) I am continually amazed at how much the Boston media plants bombs for Kerry. That the origin of this whole thing was 'homegrown' makes it worse. (Way worse. I don't think it would have upset me if the news had come from out-of-state.) Sigh! SandnSea is right (I think it was you sweetie) we in MA are spoiled. We expect perfection and standards that no living person can ever measure up to and this makes me sad.

I was looking forward to my first ever MA Dems Convention as a voting delegate. I am now happy that Sen. Kerry won't be there and the joy I would have had at voting for this nice step forward for freedom and euqality is somewhat diminished. That kinda sucks! And that is a little depressing. (Yeah, this one was personal. Sorry.)

Anyway, you guys rock! It is impossible to stay down with such good people having your back. Love to you all and a most sincere thanks!

:grouphug: Oh and the photo threads were just what the doctor ordered. Wonderful!

[karynnj]

1. Enjoy the Convention anyway

It should be great to see Kennedy and to hear what the other Democrats have to say. I'm amazed at how disgusting the gay marriage threads got - especially the one in LBN, I think I will avoid that issue except here.

I wonder why the people here made such an issue of it, when it was NOT even a change in position. (Kerry didn't have a lot of choice - he was asked: if he refused to give a real answer, he would have been hit with this flack and more about not taking positions. If he said yes, it would be a major shift, which would be impossible to explain as only last year he explained why he didn't want it based on religion etc. So, he had no real choice. If this is one of the bigger questions at the convention, it's certainly fair to ask him. I think he does have the best political position for a nation-wide run(unless he decides to stick with a Senate run (cause McCain told him to :) ) and it turns a lot of MA Democrats against him.)

I actually made a mistake because I was annoyed and asked where they were going to get this left wing candidate - but I ended up getting the Clark people angry, which I wish I wouldn't have done. It just seems that they unfairly target Kerry. (The whole thread was started by an Al Gore person )



Well, I hope MA still likes him.

[whometense]

10. I was visiting some of the

lefty Boston blogs today, and was realllllly turned off by the bashing that was going on. It's disheartening, but I guess the flip side of living in a liberal bastion. Woe to whoever does not toe the line of liberal purity.

But most of us love him in our flinty, won't-give-an-inch Yankee way. Massachusetts is liberal, but it's also very Catholic.

[sandnsea]

2. I know how Tennessee feels

This has really bugged me today because here we are working our butts off in Oregon to pass an anti-discrimination, civil union law; and then have that exact same effort trashed on DU. It's schizophrenic to me. I wasn't nice, but I just get so tired of fighting all sides of an issue. Should I really call my reps and tell them to vote no on this legislation because it's not gay marriage? Well duh, no. It isn't like this legislation just flies through, not here anyway. Not in most places. Supporting civil unions when you know you can't get gay marriage is not putting people in the back of the bus, it's helping them at least get on the bus. Must be what it's like to vote for Harold Ford, Jr. when YOU know what the alternative is, but others have no clue.

Anyway, that's a nice Kerry/Hillary piece, and some nice comments from Louisiana too. And I heard one of the church members from NC, he was relatively nice too. Didn't support preachers telling people how to vote. And couldn't understand any woman letting a man tell her how to vote, considering how long women fought for the right to vote. That guy is gettable, if we had a loud enough voice reaching out to him.

LOUDER!! I think I'm going to change my sig line.

[TayTay]

3. Gay Marriage is going to stay in MA

The polls show it at 56% FOR, 38 Against. There is LESS support for a Constitutional amendment to ban this than there was last year. The new Speaker of the MA House is for Gay Marriage. It's here to stay.

Kerry's position is not that relevent to what will happen in-state. This is less of a problem than the IWR vote from 2002. (Which was the Senator's problem as it was federal.) Kerry is perfectly fine at home, except with the lefty freepers who seem to hate him no matter what he does. So to hell with them and their whining about solid friends who have been there over the years. Screw them and the horse they rode in on.

I'm so over them now. And I am going to enjoy the convention. Act II, btw, will be Howard Dean speaking. I can't wait for that one.:sarcasm:

[sandnsea]

11. It should be

I'm not at all suggesting anybody in Massachusetts should support going backwards on gay marriage. I hope nobody got that impression. I just don't think it's helpful nationally, as some seem to think. And I don't understand getting bashed for supporting civil unions because non-gay voters and legislators didn't stand up and support it, it wouldn't exist at all.

Anyway, I'm very very anxious to hear all about Howard Dean. Whatever they might be missing in the media, specifics about creating a national message and what he really says when he talks about abortion, Iraq or whatever other issues.

I hope you have a really good time!!!

[TayTay]

17. I seem to be getting snippy with all the wrong people lately

Never for even a split second thought that. I'm sorry if I made that impression. I'm going to be kind to myself and blame my cold for imploding my brain.

[sandnsea]

19. No you're not

To me, this is how we bridge gaps for the greatest good. I tell you how things are out here in blue Oregon. Others tell you how things are in Tennessee or Michigan or wherever. You go to your Dem Convention with these things in mind, hear whatever you hear there. You may hear something that brings it all together, MA, OR & TN. And you can stand up and say "HEY, That's it!!". We, as regular people, have never really had this opportunity before. We don't have to listen to the top down tell us what's going on in other places, because we're talking to each other every day. You can say "there are people in TN who are just as pro-choice and pro gay marriage as I am". Or, alot of Democrats truly are worried about the consequences of leaving Iraq with no other help. And I can tell an anti-gay marriage Dem in Oregon that they're really making it hard for parts of the country who want to move forward on this issue, there's pro gay marriage Dems in Georgia and Alabama, get with the program. It's all good.

[whometense]

13. Will that be your first time

seeing him in person? I'm looking forward to the full report.

[karynnj]

4. I liked your suggestion that it was rights they needed from legislation

and they could then have whatever they wanted for ceremonies (hope I'm not totally miss- stating what you said. You were brave to keep fighting in there.

[ginnyinWI]

5. And Karyn I wanted to thank you for getting my back

in that McCain thread today. But didn't want to say it over there! :pals:

But they weren't too bad, when you compare them to some!

[whometense]

12. hahahaha

That was the guy on Olbermann - I heard him too. His position was a tad illogical, but he seemed like a decent person. I felt like yelling, hey, you got it all right, except HOW did you decide * was the BEST MAN FOR THE JOB????????? Argh.

[sandnsea]

14. Well,

It's those abortions and homosexuals. You know, I like to think it's not that simple, but maybe for some people it really is. I had a call like that during the primaries. Very polite man, but he didn't vote Democratic anymore because of abortions and homosexuals. And there was no conversation beyond it either.

[JI7]

6. the McCain thing really made me angry

who the fuck is he to tell Kerry what to do ? if you think about it, it's a really arrogant thing to do. the way McCain talks about Kerry reminds me of those relationships with 2 people where one person comes to depend or look up to the other person and regularly asks them for advice. the other person feels they have some control or rights to tell that other person what to do. when the "dominated" person starts becoming more independent and sees they don't need the "dominating" person as much or even at all anymore they start feeling resentment.

in this example Kerry is the one who looks up to McCain and learns he doesn't really need McCain anymore. McCain angry that Kerry is doing well and totally ignores him makes these comments about Kerry. can you imagine if Kerry or any other Senator said the things McCain said about Kerry to another Senator ? i can't see it.

i'm sure McCain feels crappy that Kerry doesn't come to him or needs as he used and and Kerry is STILL doing a good job.

[ginnyinWI]

7. yes--bigtime

McCain is older, never made it out of the primaries when he ran. Kerry started passing him by back during the Vietnam Pow/Mia days, when Kerry showed himself to have a cooler temperment, more self-control and to be better at diplomacy with the Vietnamese. He clearly led that mission. Then JK wins the nomination over nine others in 2004, and wages a much better fight against the chimp than McCain did. And now JK is a super-senator with national clout. I do see a green-eyed monster here.

[wisteria]

8. McCain maybe doesn't want to have to run against Kerry.

When I mentioned McCain's statements to my husband, the first thing he said to me was, sounds like someone wants to run for president and wants any real competition out of the way. Do you think this is a possibility?

[ginnyinWI]

9. he'd probably like a shot at it

but I don't know--he'd have to have a lot of support from his side. Stranger things have happened. A McCain v. Kerry race would be just so strange! But it's an upside-down world now, it seems.

[TayTay]

18. With all due respect, I saw it the opposite way

Those two knew about each other for years as opponents on opposite sides of the Vietnam War. McCain came to Boston to campaign against Kerry in the 1984 Senate race. They didn't associate in the Senate at all until there was a fact-finding trip to the Middle East, I think, on one of those uncomfortable military jets. They talked. And talked, And talked. And came to an understanding of each other's views. And that was a good thing.

They actually made an interesting pair; the tall, polite, reserved and patrician looking Senator from liberal Massachusetts and the stocky, feisty hot-tempered former POW from conservative Arizona. They did a lot of good things because they put ego aside and considered what was right for the country. Kerry-McCain became almost a cliche in the Senate. They knew each other's thoughts and could hold 5 second conversations about pending bills and actions. Again, this was a good thing for the country.

Kerry was the leader on a lot of legislation. McCain, in his bio, said that he thought Kerry was a very smart man and acted as a break on McCain when the older Senator would start to react to something out of anger. Kerry kept McCain from getting into deep trouble by providing him with restraint. (Something we can see that McCain has trouble with on his own.) McCain has said, over and over, that Kerry and Kerry alone got him through the POW/MIA hearings when families of the missing would berate McCain and bring up charges that McCain was a 'Manchurian Candidate,' brain-washed by the Viet Cong. When McCain had an opponent in Arizona condemn him as a sellout and cave-in on the POW issue, Kerry had every member of the POW/MIA committee sign a letter for publication defending the man.

Again, I find this death of a friendship to be sad. It was good for the country. McCain will be the one who is the poorer for it. He needed the cover that Kerry provided as the wiser and more far-seeing one in that duo. McCain will never make it through the primaries. He will self-destruct in some fit of anger that will turn the press against him.

[JI7]

20. i understand what you are saying

but at least even in those cases like coming out against Kerry in the Senate race it was still based on an issue he felt strongly about.

what McCain is doing right now is just being an asshole. it's not even based on any issue. and nothing he says makes sense as Kerry is focusing on the Senate work.

i'm not sure i feel sad ,maybe later. right now i just can't stand the guy for being a jerk.

[karynnj]

22. Your summary is very interesting

One observation is that as you have said, McCain in some ways got more out of their working together than Kerry did.

Kerry seems to have this very strong probably gut reaction to immediately defending the other Senate Vets. He also wanted all of them on the POW/MIA committee. As Kerry pulled together the other vets to defend Cleland, Kerrey and McCain (2000), in addition to the letter you mentioned, I would bet that McCain's anemic SBVT protests (and his demand Kerry not use even that comment)was almost a betrayal.

I agree with Ginny that McCain is probably jealous of Kerry. I wonder if McCain isn't envious of Kerry's ability to keep a pleasant demeanor, be a statesman and just keep pushing things that need to be done. (Not to mention the obvious - after nearly a year where everything except the kitchen sink was thrown at him, Kerry looks great and somehow he seems to have dealt with everything. McCain looks awful.)

His bringing up Kerry in this interview is weird - I wonder if some Republicans wanted him do it- especially as the "day job" crack seems a tad bit too reminiscent from the RW talking point that Kerry was a lazy Senator - which McCain of all people knows is not true.

I agree that he will probably self-destruct. I don't think it will be in the primaries as they are still years away.

[JI7]

23. interesting

so you think he will self destruct before even the 2008 primaries get started ?

[karynnj]

24. Yes, I think he might

I really think that many things in the Senate have gotten pretty nasty. (The odd thing is years ago, on eof the reasons given by Bill Bradley when he opted not to run was that the Senate had lost a lost of it's civility. and those were the good old days.

In the SFRC, all the Democrats looked livid at their last meeting. All of them have MUCH better control of their tempers. In his values speech, Kerry talked about how vilified Voinivick was getting from the RW just for asking for time and information before making a vote.

McCain has styled himself as a maverick, but so far I think he's voted pure party line. He did say he would vote against getting rid of the fillibuster. If Voinivick is getting hell just for asking for more time, not saying he'll vote the wrong way, I suspect on the fillibuster issue, where they are pushing it as being against people of faith, McCain will be punished for voting as he says especially IF there are enough people voting the same way. From all accounts, he is a hot head and he may not have found a replacement Senator to calm him down.

[politicasista]

15. Here you go Tay Tay

It's been a rough day for a lot of us. :grouphug: :hi:

[TayTay]

16. You rock Sweetie!

All done with School? If so, what's up for the summer. I hope it's a good one.

I have developed a raging cold, right on time for Mother's Day. (It's one of those excesively moist colds, yuck!) My mood will be much improved when my cold goes away. Right now, thank the Powers for Nyquil!

[politicasista]

21. Yep.

I have to take a class (only in the morning) this summer so I can graduate next spring. (I am in grad school). I hoping to travel and visit my relatives this summer. I hope it's a good one too.

Sorry to hear you have a cold. Hope you feel better. Happy Mother's Day. Thanks for the shoutout. :hi:

[vinessa4freedom]

25. Be well, TayTay

and Happy Mother's Day.