A personal issue (I'm not sure how to put this, please bear with me)

[rockymountaindem]

If this thread goes well I'll repost it in the lounge to get a wider response.

I have a friend (a girl) who is very afraid of guys. She admits this herself. I am the only boy she is friends with (that I know of, I looked at her facebook profile and only 4 out of her 50 friends at school were boys). She absolutely refuses to have a romantic relationship with a guy. I would like to have one with her, but for now we are just friends, as I fear that broaching the subject would cause her to spurn me entirely.

However, I know it is not a mental component or because she is distant. To the contrary, we have had some very personal and mutually revealing conversations. We have both remarked that we have a lot in common. She prides herself on being distant from others and trusting no one. I believe she trusts me, however, because of the sensitive personal issues we have discussed. Combining that with the fact that she doesn't have any other guy friends, that makes me the only boy she trusts.

She is very shy, particularly around boys, and absolutely refuses to have any kind of physical contact. She also never wears skirts or dresses, short sleeve shirts or removes her jacket if she's wearing one. At the end of one summer, when she was returning to school (and after yet another of our bonding conversations) I asked for a hug before she left. This she adamantly refused and her smiling face quickly changed to the a stare of daggers. Another time she was with me and another friend (who she used to like very much but not anymore, long story), and he gave her a "wet willy" by surprise. We both laughed but she was certainly not amused. She screamed at the top of her lungs, got up, stood for the rest of the evening on the other side of the room and refused to accept any of his apologies. Perhaps I'm under reacting, but jeez, it's not like he violated her or anything.

And that, friends, brings me to my point. Given what I know about my friend and her behavior, I believe she may have been somehow abused in the past. As they say, 1 in 5 girls is sexually abused at some point in her childhood. Of all the girls I have ever known, if I were to pick one who I thought may have been molested, it would be her. Her shyness and self-professed "fear" (yes, fear) of boys is inexplicable to me. When I spend time with her I always go out of my way to be very kind and considerate and show her that not all boys are people she should be afraid of. After some effort I think she sees that, and she is not as reluctant to be left alone with me as before.

Based on what I've said here, do any of you agree with my theory? I've known shy people, and I've known girls who think all boys are jerks, but not anyone who acts like this. If she has been hurt in the past, I'd like to be able to talk to her about it and comfort her if she'd let me. Obviously, though, I'm not going to broach that subject. I sent her an e-mail today wishing her happy spring and she's been on my mind. Is this a possibility or am I just way off base?

(sorry to bring up such a sensitive topic, but I feel better doing it in an anonymous setting, and you Kerrycrats are the coolest DUers, so, naturally I came here :) )

[Vektor]

1. She may very well have...

...been abused. That is what it sounds like, and this is a deeply scarring thing that affects a person for life. There is no telling who is the perpetrator, if any, but in the vast majority of cases, it is someone the victim knows. A relative or trusted family friend may have abused her at some point in her life, or there is always the possibility that she was the victim of a random attack. If it was a relative, or someone the family knows, she may be afraid to speak up - she may have been threatened.

This is all speculation, of course, but if abuse did occur, she will likely need help and counseling. Being there for her as a friend and being understanding is the best thing you can do for her. She may not be ready for a relationship, and the possibility exists she never will be. There is also a possibility that whether or not abuse occurred, she sexually is not inclined toward males. There's not much you can do about that.

You didn't say how long you have been friends with her, but maybe you could attempt to ask her if she has had a traumatic experience, and is there anything you can do to help? Don't relate this to yourself, as in "I want to go out with you, but I feel you have a problem..." Don't make it out to be that you want to find out about her troubles because you want to get close to her - just let her know you want to help, as a friend. If you indicate that you have an interest, she may be frightened off. If you have a sister or female friend that she trusts, maybe she can help. Regardless of if you are going to get a date or not, if she has been abused, she needs to get some help.

Best of luck. I hope you are able to help her.

Sexual abuse statistics are actually ONE IN THREE females is abused at some point in her life. And those are only the one's that are reported. I suspect it's almost all women. We live in a very cruel world, and being a female is a very scary thing. Look out for this friend of yours, and for the women in your life.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. Those sound like red flags to me

I, nor anyone I am acquainted with (that I'm aware of), has been abused, but it sounds like it's a very good possibility that she has.

I would just continue being a good friend to her. Like Vektor said, in most abuse cases, the abuser is someone the victim both knew and trusted. It is vital that you never, ever give her reason to doubt your intentions, because while that might be upsetting to any girl, it would be catastrophic to her.

Not having much experience with things like this, I would just advise you to continue being a good and trustworthy friend to her, and let her take things at her own pace. I would not indicate to her that I was interested in her, because if she's been tramatized enough to fear being in solitary prescence with a boy, or getting a platonic hug from one, the mere thought of a relationship or anything sexual could permanently drive her away.

So, yeah... that's tough, and I'm sorry my advice is not that great, but just be there for her, make her comfortable with you, and let her know that if she ever needs to talk, then she can talk with you. Do you have any mutual female friends with her that you could trust? It might be better for her to talk about her problems - if this is indeed the issue - with another girl. So just be good to her, listen to her, and never let her down. You're a good guy (you like Kerry, you must be!) so I'm sure you will be a good friend for her.

[rockymountaindem]

4. In reply to both your posts

First of all, thanks for your insight. I appreciate that. Secondly, the issue is not really whether or not I get a date with her. If we can only be friends that's fine and I'll get someone else to be my girlfriend. If she has shared these experiences with anyone it would be with her best friend, who is also a close friend of mine. This other friend told me one time that the guy she had been going out with (she, interestingly enough, is the type of person that can't be without a romantic relationship) tried to force himself on her in a parking lot. She got away from him and that was that as far as anyone could tell.

As for the Ms. Shyness, I know she's not a lesbian. She has told me that "the idea of having a boyfriend is nice", but that she just doesn't see why she would want one. Yeah, that's contradictory. She also has talked about her crushes on a couple actors (I don't remember who).

To answer your question, we knew each other all through high school, but weren't really friends. At the end of the summer before we all went away, she and I went to dinner at our mutual friend's house. After about three hours really talking to each other, she left and was actually the one to suggest that we spend more time together. Since then I have become quite attracted to her both mentally and physically.

If you were to ask me, I think that any kind of abuse would have been over the long term. I didn't mention this before, but she has a real self esteem problem. She thinks she is the only person who has problems figuring out what she wants to do in life. She also thinks that she is the most unattractive girl on earth, once referring to her physical appearance as "a worst-case scenario". I happen to think she is the most beautiful girl I've ever seen, and surely an objective observer wouldn't find anything wrong ;) That seems like the kind of thing that wouldn't develop from a one-time incident. Every time I compliment her she just brushes it off and says I'm just trying to be polite and make her feel better.

I suppose the silver lining is that whatever has got her feeling down about herself hasn't made her into a bad person. She is sweet and compassionate and a very good listener. She would make a good companion for anyone and I feel very blessed to have her as a friend. I just wish there was some way I could get her to cheer up about herself. She's intelligent, ambitious, a good person, and attractive. She could have the world at her fingertips if only she would realize it. If I could do one thing for her it would be to make her understand that.

[ginnyinWI]

3. It looks like it to me

This girl may still be being abused--no reason to assume that it is in the past. I had a good friend in high school whose dad was abusing her, and I never knew it. I found out when she told me after we met again many years later and we were both middle aged and her father had by then died. So you never know.

If it's true, she needs help. She needs to be able to trust someone enough to tell them about it and get help. I don't know who that someone would be, but maybe a teacher or counsellor or other person who would help her.

Good luck--do your best to be kind and understanding in the meantime.

[saracat]

5. I agree with Ginny. The first thought I had after reading your post

was that the abuse could be ongoing and current. Your second post about her not wanting to be recognized as attractive is a further red flag. I agree this is NOT just a shyness issue. She really needs help and the best you can do is to be there for her as a friend in a non threatening manner. You might however , during one of your conversations with her, ask her why she doesn't think of herself as attractive. Do it casually. Maybe in a conversation about how people see themselves. Maybe talk about some of your doubts about yourself. Then mention, "I notice you don't like compliments and don't think of yourself as attractive, why is that?" But make sure the conversation isn't just about her. Talk about yourself and other people first.Maybe" "I think I sometinmes look like a dork" and"Did you know Julia Roberts thinks of herself as ugly? " Good luck with your friend . You sound like a very caring person and she is lucky to have you as a friend!

[rockymountaindem]

6. Thank you for your compliment!

We have talked about these things on occasion. I don't know why she continues to think of herself like that. When I was 16 I went to the doctor and he told me that a) I was quite overweight and b) I might never grow to be even 5'6''. Needless to say I was quite depressed. After about a month of feeling sorry for myself, I decided I could continue feeling bad all the time or do something about it. I lost 30 pounds, started taking vitamins and calcium in an effort to make myself grow, and lifted a ton of weights (bad pun). 2 years later I've grown nearly 2 inches and tripled my biceps and pecs (if you were here I'd tell you to punch me in the chest) :)

I've suggested that my friend do something similar, such as getting her hair restyled. She won't do it and continually insists that it would be a wasted effort.

I really don't know what else I can do unless she ever tells me what the source of the problem is. Hopefully this isn't even a problem. It would be better just to have low self esteem than low self esteem plus abuse. I really hope I'm wrong and that I'm just looking for a problem to justify what seems like inexplicable behavior. I just hope my friend is ok. On the other hand, if she ever did confess a problem to me then I don't know what I could do about it. So obviously I hope there isn't any abuse past or present, but after all this time that's the only explanation that makes any sense. Either that, or she's the shyest person on earth.

[saracat]

7. I sometimes have a hard time with compliments. When I was younger I

thought that boys who were nice to me were secretly making fun of me.Talk about paranoid.My husband once told me he stopped giving me compliments because I was so dismissive of them. He told me that I was insulting him by not appreciating myself! He asked me what I thought about him if I could denigrate his choice. That last comment gave me a lot to think about.I realized that my dismissal of anothers compliment WAS a negative judgement of the other person. I don't do that to people anymore. Maybe you could try phrasing something that way to your friend.Something along the lines of, she is hurting your feelings when she dismisses your compliment.You could say it makes you feel as though she is saying you are lying or have bad taste.Ask her why you should be with someone as unattractive as she thinks she is?Just a thought. It might get her thinking.It did me.

[JI7]

8. does look like a serious problem

i think the others who have answered are probably right about abuse and the possibility that it's still going on.

i'm not really sure, maybe while just talking about things as you would anyday you bring up some issue that has to do with abuse. and see what her reaction is.

i do recommend you post this in the lounge or general discussion forum. there might be people who have had similar experiences themselves or with someone else who can also help.

the part that really stands out as being a problem is the reaction from her that you describe when it comes to guys. it would be one thing if she just blew it off as "i'm just don't want a boyfriend or i don't really get along that well with guys".

but as you say it's more the reaction of "fear" that indicates there is a problem. and from what you describe she really needs help. but how to approach her or help her get that help will probably be difficult also.

[Fridays Child]

9. Ask her.

In a supportive and respectful way, just ask her. Do it the next time you and she are having a personal conversation, like you described above.

And, by the way, wet willies are beyond disgusting. Your friend should have gotten decked for that nasty little stunt.

[rockymountaindem]

10. Link to lounge post here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3037345

[JI7]

11. it might be a good idea to copy and paste what you wrote in this thread

on to the one in the lounge since many people don't click on links .

[rockymountaindem]

12. That's ok.

I don't want it to spread too widely. If people don't want to click on a link that's ok. I feel sort of wierd discussing it anyway.

[JI7]

13. i understand

it probably would be better since those willing to click and read through will be those most likely to offer some good advice rather than just throw out whatever without really reading through.