Bush's drop in polls a result of Schiavo case and Conservative men ?

[JI7]

this is more about Conservative men than the Schiavo case itself. but the polls which show Bush's support dropping just from about a week ago as a result of the intervention into the Schiavo case seems to be from a loss of support among Conservative religious type men.

i think part of it has to do with the position of Michael Schiavo as husband. they identified with him. it was different from other issues like abortion and gay marriage where they tend to oppose those things probably because it doesn't apply to themselves. but the position Michael Schiavo is in could apply to any of them. they could imagine a situation where if their own wife was in a similar state as Terri Schiavo they feel as husband only they have a right to decide what to do. they don't want the government to tell them what to do. even if they would choose to keep the tube in they don't want it to be a government order but rather their own decision as husband.

what do you all think ?

[TayTay]

1. I think it's also a splintering of libertarians

from the Rethug fundie base. The libertarians are upset over the Delay move to have the Congress stick their nose into the Schiavo case. Libertarians are strict onctructionists and don't believe in this.

I'm not surprised that *'s polls are dropping. This was a big mistake.

[ginnyinWI]

2. Let's just hope that they will remember this.

People seem to forget as soon as the media moves on to its next target. :eyes:


Does anyone know of a site that is keeping track of all of BushCo's mistakes, lies, tricks, etc.? I wish I had one to stick under a few peoples' noses. Oh it probably wouldn't do any good anyway. :(

[Pirate Smile]

3. That is my thought also. There are many republican men who are

quite libertarian and don't like the activist religious fundie take-over but have not yet made a break from the Republicans. When they realize who now controls that party, I don't think they will stick around - but I couldn't believe they stuck around in 2004.

It is the people (generally men in my experience) who want the low taxes, less governmental interference and bully-boy foreign policy. They aren't as concerned about social issues like the poor, minorities, etc. They don't identify with the fundy wing who has taken over - the fundies actually scare the shit out of them.

edit to add - It has also been my experience that they like divided government and don't like one party control - but they aren't fans of the Democrats.

I think we need to make this an issue in 2006 - the fact that we need divided government as a check on these people. That may be one of the only ways to get this type of voter to vote for the Democrats.

It will also give the unhappy Republicans and moderate Dems who actually like their moderate Republican representative or Senator a good reason to vote against them. Everybody likes their own Congressperson but disapproves of Congress. Well, you may need to vote against the person you kind of like in order to put a check on the WH.

[JI7]

4. also, even if they don't vote Democratic

we can hope they at least vote third party or not vote at all.

[Hans Delbrook]

11. I can reply in the affirmative

My older brother is as close to a libertarian as you can get w/out actually registering and he is mad as hell at this whole mess. He was shouting the other day that Congress and the prezlenit should never get involved in this kind of case.

I never out and out asked who he voted for after the election (I was afraid of the answer - I knew he was wavering and I did what I could to get him on the side of the angels :-)) but if he did end up voting for shrubbie, he's deeply regretting it now.

[Pirate Smile]

13. Well, I'm sure he will love this new aspect of the circus

"Hours after a judge ordered that Terri Schiavo was not to be removed from her hospice, a team of state agents were en route to seize her and have her feeding tube reinserted -- but they stopped short when local police told them they would enforce the judge's order, The Herald has learned.

-snip-
Participants in the high-stakes test of wills, who spoke with The Herald on the condition of anonymity, said they believed the standoff could ultimately have led to a constitutional crisis and a confrontation between dueling lawmen.

''There were two sets of law enforcement officers facing off, waiting for the other to blink,'' said one official with knowledge of Thursday morning's activities.

In jest, one official said local police discussed ``whether we had enough officers to hold off the National Guard.''

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11233240.htm

[Hans Delbrook]

14. Its not as big a problem as it could have been for the local police

Since jeb's idiot brother has most of the National Guard deployed in Iraq.

What a sad state of affairs. I cannot laugh, I take no joy even in the bush brothers implosion. I can only think of that poor woman being used so disgracefully.

It seems like no one really sees her as human being anymore - she's a symbol, or a sign, or a pawn, or whatever. I'm only glad she remains unaware of this circus.

[Pirate Smile]

15. Is Jeb an attorney? Georgie obviously isn't and this fiasco makes

me think they don't have a full grasp of the separation of powers and respect for the authority of the Judiciary Branch.

It just blows my mind.

[Hans Delbrook]

17. Lawyer - no. Shady real estate deal maker - YES!

No, none of the bush boys are lawyers - maybe so they have the excuse of ignorance for committing all those crimes.

[ginnyinWI]

5. Chimpy's rating is now down to 45%

This was in USA Today today. It's the lowest of his presidency. Down from 52% last week. The last time it was low it was 46% last May (Abu Garaib).

People are beginning to wake up to the ways this administration could affect their personal lives. That's my guess.

[whometense]

6. There was a woman who called in to

Al Franken today who sounded as if she was nearly in tears. She said she and her husband had voted for Bush, and they now deeply regret it.

In most cases, I'd be (uncharitably) thinking, too little, too late, but she sounded sorry. I thought at the time, if people like her are starting to turn things may really change.

It's too bad that so few people seem to be capable of admitting a mistake, and the bushies are the worst. It's almost as if the more wrong they know they are, the more bullheaded and offensive they become.

[ginnyinWI]

8. Let's hope the regret sticks until the next election.

I'm glad I can say that I'm not responsible for this guy being in the White House. There was a woman on Washington Journal who also said she was going to change parties. I hope that one was real, too.

I'm sorry that * was smart enough to not pull these kinds of stunts before the election. :( We all knew what he was like, but he wasn't bad enough for some people. Sigh. I'm grieving for JK's lost presidency again! :( :(

[JohnKleeb]

9. I am with you 100% Ginny on this, SIGH!

[TayTay]

10. And let's hope we can restrain the lefty freepers enough

so that good people like this can see that we welcome them and wish them well. One of the single most upsetting things to me last fall was the way that short-sighted lefty freepers berated 'Red' voters for being stupid. This is no way to build support for a political party. I would hope that the Dems and the left in general extend a hand of kindness and compassion to these voters and are not, in any way, condescending to our fellow Americans. It is wrong.

I often wonder why the lefty freepers are lefty freepers. The purpose of the left is to agitate for the concerns of the common man in America. Dems care about the quality of life in America for all of our citizens and want to find a way to bring the great benefits of what America has to offer to an ever expanding slice of the public. As a Dem, my people do indeed live in some very fancy houses and some of them collect nice fancy paychecks. But my guys also live in double-wide trailers and smaller starter homes that they can't afford to move out of. They shop at Wal-Mart because that's how they stretch a buck enough to actually cloth a few kids on one or even two small paychecks. (I am one of 8 kids. When I was a kid, I had a lot of hand-me-downs and trips to the second-hand shop in town. It's what you did to get by.)

If we (well not us in here, but the lefty freepers) use an 'I told you so' attitude on people who we want to persuade to vote with us, then we are being fools. I would hope that we can admit to ourselves that the loss last year hurt precisely because of the opportunities for Americans that were lost. I deeply hope that I am not sorry because I lost a chance to show how superior I am to the choices that less-educated, or more religious people made. Because then I am no better than what I preach against.

[whometense]

16. Beautifully said.

I couldn't agree more. That woman was exactly the person we want on our side from now on.

The lefty freepers continue to mystify me. Such waste of good energy. I don't understand the pull the negative has on some of these people. Same with the freepers who comment on the blog. I just don't get it. I don't hang out in freeperland. Why do they bother to read what I write? What do they hope to gain by attempting to bully me out of my opinions? I need to take a psych course, I think.

[ginnyinWI]

20. this is where I can chime in

whome, I've had lots of psych courses because I minored in it.

People feel empowered by being angry. It gives them a stronger sense of self. And it can help them not to deal directly with their fears.

Also, when groups of people get together, united against some kind of opposition, the group dynamic tends to make each person more and more strong in their opinions. (Opposition should also band people together, but I don't know if that is really happening. Maybe it does in our group though.)

Anyway, that's what happens here at DU when people start agreeing with one another--they start feeling stronger and stronger about it. The same thing happens in a lynch mob--lol.
The righty freepers get a charge out of being the opposition. They feel superior and are dying to show off their "wits" and "brains". Lol again.

So the bottom line is, in my opinion, that the lefty freepers are negative and angry as a defense against feeling afraid and powerless.

[politicasista]

12. Me three!

[XanaDUer]

7. I think you're correct

Judge Greer is no hero. The case of Helene McGee is a case in point. I remember him in that case and I was disgusted by him then.

They don't like the gun'mint interfering between them and their women.

TErri is just being used as a pawn. The whole thing makes me sick.

[foreverdem]

18. Has anyone heard?

On any media outlet except Air America about the law shrub passed when he was gov of Houston, the Medical Futility treatment law, or some such name, where it is up to the hospital to decide if a person is taken off life support? Under his law, even if the family of the patient wants them kept alive, the family has no say in the matter if the family does not have the money to pay, say in the case of someone on Medicaid.

While Michael Schiavo or Terri's parents may have the money to pay for Terri's care, I find shrub's hypocrisy appalling. He passes a law in Houston saying the family has no say, then comes jetting back into Washington to sign a bill to keep Schiavo alive, saying we should err on the side of life? Is that only for those who have money? Where was that statement when he signed the bill in Houston into law? I really am not surprised, since we all know what a slimeball and lying ass the shrub is, I am just mad as hell at his hypocrisy.

I was wondering if any of the major news outlets have mentioned the Houston law?

[ginnyinWI]

21. to err on the side of life

Boy is that another glaring example of Bush doublespeak, or what?
He promotes and gives medals to his war-mongering underlings. Everything he does promotes a culture of death. He's killing people with both military force and with neglect. He errs alright. Bah.

[seito]

22. It was covered on Countdown, MSNBC

and The Daily Show (Does that count?)

[paulk]

19. I agree...

I've known a couple of fundamentalist Republican men over the years, people who voted on social/religious issues, and the one thing they trusted less than "the liberals" was "the gov'ment". They always saw the Dems as the party of big government, the party willing to make law that interceded in your private life.

It's my suspicion that these types, even if they don't agree with the court's decision on Schiavo, like the idea of the Congress {and the Bushes} getting involved even less.