I shouldn't let them upset me, but they do

[LittleClarkie]

He's working his heart out, and nobody notices. They insist on calling him DLC and only noticing him when he's ten feet from Bush so they can point and call out "Skull and Bones!"

I know it's early, but the more he's made the scapegoat by the left, the more I despair his chances in 08. It's not damned fair. He'd be a great president. What can we do to help?

Or are the people who say these things not our mainstream? Please tell me they don't have much influence in the party. Between Malloy and some of the threads out there in GD land, I'm just sitting here in tears. It's so wrong to label him DLC, or keep repeating how he couldn't beat "the worst president ever." Well, apparently some folks with little red koolade mustaches don't seem to think the Shrub is the worst president ever. (OH GOD, when will they wake up to this insanity?!)

What did it take to wake people up in Wilson's time. I hear he was quite the bastard as well. I wonder if history sees him that way.

Sorry. Guess I'm mostly just being hormonal (pardon me gentlemen). But I do wonder how we can change his image. He's trying so damn hard. If he keeps this up for another 3 years, I'm just going to be crushed if he doesn't get to try again.

[JI7]

1. who cares about them, and i have never listened to Malloy

DU has always been anti Kerry and the non progressive leftists have always been anti Kerry yet he kicked ass in the primaries and came close to beating Bush even while he kept getting crap from the right and the left.

most people don't listen to malloy. most don't even watch fox news or cnn.

[marcologico]

2. have a drink on me LittleC

yeah I know it's early but this is an emergency :)

:beer: :beer:

[TayTay]

3. Don't be discouraged

First of all, it's too early. Decisions won't be finalized until at least next fall. We have to get through '06 first and see if the Dems can pick up some seats.

All Presidential candidates go through a vetting process. This is not for the squeamish. (And if a person is thin-skinned and bothered by this type of thing, then maybe politics shouldn't be their chosen profession.) Kerry lost last fall. As much as that pains me, it is true. He is accountable for what he did. As he is an adult, I believe he knows this and knows the consequences. And, I think, he is quite willing to shoulder some of this abuse. In fact, I think he would rather take it now, in '05, than in '07 or '08. Every dirty piece of laundry, every unfair depiction, every last ounce of venom sent his way now, gets this stuff out in the open. (Better now than later, if indeed he does run again, which I think he will.)

This is all part of the game. Some AAR people are more liberal than others. And Libs are known for having strong opinions, it's part of their charm. (she said sarcasticly.) This too shall pass, or at least lessen as time goes on. There is a certain strain of lib that is always looking for the knight in shining armor to come and swoop them away to lib heaven. Unfortunately, all pols have to go through the vetting process and flaws are revealed. They will never get what they want, as they want what doesn't exist. So, you lash out at the ones who disappointed you. (Some things never change.)

Kerry is doing what he needs to do. Let the AAR folks say what they want to say. (Libs like free speech.) Kerry will get over it.

[JI7]

5. and it wont be decided based on AA radio or some pundits either

candidates have to go to the primary states and talk to the people directly and make their case to them . Kerry or anyone can have all the big liberal media, pundits etc behind him but if they can't make the case themselves to the people in the primary states they wont win.

this is why some of the people who continue to trash Kerry don't matter much other than maybe being a bit annoying.

but it still comes down to candidates themslves having to make their case to the people in those states themselves.

[TayTay]

6. But the bad charges all get out there

so you can prepare a proper defense. You have to know what kind of shit is going to be thrown at you, so you can get ready.

I am a gardener. I have soft hands right now because I have been indoors and not doing much heavy lifting. I try to get my hands ready for this outdoor work by rolling a smooth stone between my hands. This builds up callouses so that I don't bleed when I get out there and start working with gardening tools, shovels and such. This prepares me by hardening my hands to the work at hand. Building up callouses to what can hurt you can be a really good idea.

[JI7]

7. Kerry dealt with this well during the Primary

if you remember during that down period when Dean was up and throwing out the "bush lite" type stuff against Kerry and some others ?

Kerry dealt with this well by bringing up his record and what he had done throughout the years. he didn't just say things but brought up his record as proof of who he is. he talked about how he took on Nixon and Reagan. the ads his campaign ran were some of the best ever which showed clips of his protesting the vietnam war. (one of the biggest mistakes his campaign made was getting rid of his ad guy after he wrapped up the primary).

i also remember watching a campaign appearance on tv during one of the down times and a college student supporter of his was telling him what was going on and all the lies that some supporters of other candidates were telling about him. she told him he needs to get out there and show people what the truth is. but as she said, while others can help, it has to be Kerry, the candidate who had to do it. and he did.

and i didn't see this happen in the general election when they were attacking him for being weak, not doing anything in the senate. and then all the metrosexual crap and marrying wealthy women gigolo etc.

what Kerry needed to do was bring up his record during ALL his time in public office. he needed to bring up the fact he was a prosecutor and took on the mob and rapists and helped set up support centers for rape victims. he needed to bring up the senate investigations and going after terrorists funding. he needed to bring up the vietnam pow/mia investigations and how he helped normalize relations and how that would help with iraq. if people had known these things then the attacks on him would have been less effective .

this way the attacks on him would have got people to say "maybe he did marry wealthy women, but he also went after those who fund terrorists and rapists " rather than "he is a guy who did nothing other and gets by on the wealth of his wives".

he may have protested the war but he helped bring up remains of soldiers even years later. this would have helped with the crap about how he is a traitor. or sold the soldiers out.

[TayTay]

9. Absolutely agree

Know what you are up against and prepare for it. Deal with the charges as they come out and don't ignore them. People in politics say really harsh and mean things. Deal with it. And so it goes.

[karynnj]

10. Amazing summary

You really have a point. Reading it, I think part of our collective regret that Kerry lost was that he genuinely had the record that should have made all these charges ludicrous - but they really weren't conveyed. Why do you think he made this change from the primary?

[JI7]

11. i'm not sure

it's one of the things i would most love to ask him if i ever get a chance. he had these assets that could only help him and they weren't used.

i do know Bob Shrum said some of the Senate investigations stuff was too complicated. but that isn't enough to explain it since people didn't need to know every detail but just a general idea that Kerry went after criminals, corruption etc.

one thing i keep thinking of is an ad they should have ran which started by bringing up his service in war, and then his prosecutor work, and moved on to his Senate investigations. it would have presented him as a lifetime fighter serving this nation. people couldn't say it was just vietnam some years ago. he was a lifetime fighter and he would continue doing it as president.

you are so right that the regret is he has one of the best records that would show what a lie the attacks on him were but the campaign didn't use it.

[LittleClarkie]

16. In some ways, that leaves so much for the voters to discover about him

so maybe that's good. I knew DEMS who were voting for him who didn't know about Iran/Contra. Gads, I was so impressed with that.

[angrydemocrat]

8. I agree about being prepared

But I don't think arguing and wasting my time listening to people sitting behind a microphone screaming like a couple of crazies that forgot their Prozac that day or people who they themselves don't know who or what the support and change candidates like someone does their underwear and how the feel about important issues according to what seems to be popular that day is the answer either. I feel there are better and more effective ways than that to get prepared and be ready for anything.

Let's put it this way the way I feel is these people do nothing but drive me and others to the screaming point and get the hell on my nerves with all the my way or the highway attitudes. Not everyone is going to agree on everything or even the same candidate that's life. But when you get people that everytime the open there mouth they slander and talk total shit about the Democratic leaders in this country it get's old and ridiculous. It is one thing to disagree and not like a candidate but it's another when you slander them and talk total trash like so many of these do at DU and like Malloy and Rhodes do. Hell everyone including myself gets pissed and says shit we shouldn't or say something out of anger at the moment. But some people that sit around with their damn hit list so to speak and can never do anything other than slander the leaders of this party and talk trash are the ones I find are best to ignore because they are the minority.

[angrydemocrat]

4. You can't let the nuts get you down.

And that is exactly what they are is a bunch of fruit loop leftist.:crazy: These people don't speak for the majority of America trust me. These damn nuts if you will ever watch are so damn wacky they themselves don't know what the hell they want or who the hell they support. Hell these nuts change candidates like a person changes there damn underwear. One day they support someone the next day the call them every name in the book and throw around right wing talking points about them. It is due to nuts like these that Democrats get a bad wrap. I mean hell far if other Democrats are talking about the shit you can imagine what outsiders say. SHEESH!

You have you leftist nuts as well as right wing nuts. It cuts both ways. And DU is well known to be full of the leftist nuts. No joke you can surf the web and go to other sites and see what other Democrats say about the nuts here and how they wish these people would grow the hell up and quit giving the party a bad wrap. The same shit happens on the right as well free republic is where the right wing nuts hang out. DU and Free Republic are classified by most people regardless of what party your in as the sight for the fruit loops of the parties.:crazy:

Many like myself that are here in this group have said plenty of times had not been for this group I wouldn't be here. And that is a fact as far as I go. There is no way in hell I would waste my time at this website if this group wasn't here. To many damn nuts around here for me. That is also why I don't do in the other forums. It is rare you will ever see a post from me in the other forums and most of the time when I do venture out there it is because another Kerrycrat ask you too. Then I go and come back just about as quick as I left. I'm not going to argue with a bunch of damn nuts and listen to their crap while they slander democrats because they are a bunch of damn whiners that cannot grow the hell up.

And as far as Malloy and Rhodes go they fit right in with these fools. And many Americans agree with that as well. They both sound like a couple of damn crazies that forgot to take their damn Prozac that day. Hell they throw more damn screaming fits in a week than my kids did in a year when they were babies. I mean get for real. Screw these people. If they know so damn much and can do so much better why don't they get a job in the Senate or House and walk a mile in the peoples shoes they find so easy to sit behind a microphone and scream about? Let's see how well they do because it is a big difference between working in Washington and sitting on your ass behind a microphone screaming about it.

[ginnyinWI]

12. What we see here at DU is the far-left fringe

so I'm not worried about it. What the Democratic party needs to do is focus on mainstream America, and getting moderates to swing to our side. I think Dean knows this well. We've always had a fringe, but until the Internet we haven't heard much from them (or the far-right either). Because the repubs have been taken over by the neocons, it gives the Dems a good opportunity to get moderates to come over. I just don't think we had enough time in 2004, unfortunately. And the Dems had too weak a reputation on defense, despite Kerry's qualifications. We need to shore up the party so that a good candidate like Kerry has a chance.

A main problem I keep coming back to, when I think of the election and the campaign, is the media. They are so cozy with the repubs because of corporate advantage. How will the people get the truth? And progressive radio shoots itself in the foot when it panders to the far-left fringe for the sake of ratings. Moderates are not going to identify with Malloy, or Randi Rhodes, for that matter. Al Franken is more moderate and reasonable, and accessible to moderates, and that is the direction we should take,I think. I hope the Dems really focus on this media problem, because it is key.

[angrydemocrat]

17. I totally agree with you

except I would add to the weak on defense part that Kerry isn't weak on defense at all. He was allowed to be pursued that way to the American people by the media. Kerry was out there working his ass off getting very little rest in the process campaigning and trying to win this election. He was doing everything he could and fighting off pop shots from the right and even at times the left (which was total BS) every time he moved. But there was many things said about Kerry in the media that he knew nothing about until after the campaign was over, or a supporter at a rally would tell him, or it would be a week or two after the remarks were made. Some people think a candidate should automatically know all this stuff as if they keep their nose in a TV all the time. But they don't that is why they hire all these people to work in their campaigns there is no way in hell one person could keep up with all that shit on there own. I mean it's not like these candidates are stretch armstrongs or something.

Anyhow I feel that by finding out later how Kerry didn't even know some of what was being made news about him simply tells me there was lack of communication within the campaign or some of the campaign workers just didn't keep up with there jobs so well. So many of accusations and lies went with no counter attack and sometimes when they did answer the attacks the ones they sent wasn't worth a shit and many times were made to look like fools or wimps. So I don't blame Kerry for all this I feel part of the downfall goes to some of the campaign workers themselves. Although Kerry himself has taken full blame for anything that wasn't done right you have to admit it's not all him. But in all seriousness Kerry didn't have time to stay wrapped up in the media when he was traveling the country campaigning at rallies, attending dinners and other events, helping write his own speeches which he did a lot, practicing these speeches, I mean hell far one man can only do so much and Kerry give 100% in his efforts to win this election.

And you are exactly right about what you see at DU is the left fringe and like you these people around here don't worry me either. They are the minority not the majority as they like to believe. They are more like the damn laughing stock of the party and to damn ignorant to see it. And one of our main problems is the media and getting our message out. And let me tell you people like Malloy and Rhodes isn't the answer. They are too far left in their ideals and like these people around here at DU have attitudes that only pisses people off and discourages people from wanting any part of what is going on. People are tired off a bunch of hot heads that think they know it all trying to tell the whole party what they should or shouldn't do, they are tired of all the whiners that continue to constantly down the democratic leaders every time they open their mouth and don't get their way, people are sick and tired of all the negative feedback that the party as a whole receives do to the damn left wing fringe and more and more are speaking up about it.

[TayTay]

19. You make an incredible point ...

about the campaign workers around Kerry. I loathe the REthugs as much as anyone, but I have to hand it to them on organization. Even now those guys are writing up 'bboks' on any Dems that might run in '06 and keeping close tabs on any Dems with Presidential aspirations. Dems have to start doing this. We have to be prepared to go after these guys with everything we have. (We need to start keeping 'books' now on Frist, McCain, Romney and anyone else who might be a GOP contender in '08.)

One of the things I hope Dean does as Chair is get the Dems into 24/7 campaign mode. We can't just start to ramp up a national campaign in March or April of '08. We have to build it up starting, well, now. (Hang every awful part of the dreadful Bankruptcy Bill and all the corporate sweetheart provisions in it for their rich friends on the Rethugs now.) We do need a better structure for our campaigns.

This is actually an argument in Kerry's favor. He has run the big race and, presumably, learned something from it. Rethugs don't turn their prior nominees out to twist in the winds of criticism like Dems do. If Kerry can show that he indeed has learned how to better organize a national campaign, this would work in his favor. (And if he doesn't run, then for Gawd's sake, share the knoweldge with whoever does.)

[ginnyinWI]

22. No, JK isn't weak on defense at all,

in fact, he's stronger that Bush is, if you ask me! It's only the reputation of the Dems, and even that is not based on any facts!
FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton...so who was weak?? :shrug:

[rockymountaindem]

13. You're upset by the people who

are on a Senator's side one day and call him Bush lite the next? These people don't know what they want. They are all talk and no action, and they don't mind or notice if their leaders are the same way. They latch on to those who talk the loudest even if they don't make gains, rather than leaders who are a little more quiet but get results every time (Kerry, anyone?).

All the complaining in the lounge and elsewhere is about freepers and right-wing trolls who lower the level of discourse. People rarely bring up the fact, unless they are confronted by it directly, that this left-wing purism is counterproductive. You know how the religious fundamentalists always have to think they're the victim? These "lefty freepers" (as they've become known here in the JK forum) are exactly the same way. They're always being trampled by the DLC, or moderates, or anyone and everyone else. Poor things...

That's why they listen to Malloy. He's their kind of guy. I don't listen to him. I'd prefer someone like Ed Schultz or Franken winning converts for our side than someone airing protest speeches for three hours every night like Malloy. Malloy is one of them.

So if all these people are worried about lowering the level of discourse, they should look to themselves first. We can do something about that. The real Freeps are another issue. It's like the safety briefing on the airplane, "Put the mask on yourself before assisting others". Well, they should think long and hard about what they themselves are saying before they bash others, especially Kerry.

[ginnyinWI]

14. victim mentality

They love to moan and groan, and I don't really think they'd be happy for long even if they got their way. It's to much fun to complain. If Kerry had become president, you know they'd still be on his case constantly.

"Kerry said he'd do ____, so why isn't it done? He's been president for six weeks now!! If Dean was president he'd have done it!"

Another thing I just don't understand: why is Wes Clark so idolized? (besides having little record on issues) He had been a repub/nonpolitical not too long ago, right? And a military man (now that's an understatement--lol)? So why is he being idolized by left-wing progressives? I don't understand. I did like him for a while because he'd know what to do in Iraq--but then I found JK.

They deserve each other--the right and lefty freepers. If I ever post something serious or wonky over there, it generally gets ignored. They want Gannon endlessly. And they love to start threads with "Ok, so I..." which drives me nuts. I won't click on a thread with a title like that--pet peeve of mine.

[Laurab]

15. Don't let it get to you, LittleClarkie

I really don't believe the people who constantly attack JK are in our mainstream. I think there is a very small percentage who worked for him, and are disappointed (wrongly, in my opinion), but I think the rest didn't like him to begin with, and won't like him no matter what he does or doesn't do. I really don't believe they have any influence at all on the party.

As far as his image goes, I think the only thing we can do is work on the media. Kerry's image would be fine if it weren't for the RW media. They will do the same thing to any potential candidate until they're no longer owned by the RW. It's a huge hurdle, and I have no idea what can be done about it, but hopefully, the more shrub screws up, the better it will get.

In my opinion, he DID beat the worst president ever, probably handily. Whether it is ever proven or not, I will never believe that asshole sitting in the WH really won. Everything - exit polls, approval ratings, just plain common sense, tells me he didn't win. Election fraud and the media are the things we need to work on, not John Kerry.

None of the people in the "real world" I talk to, who voted for Kerry, have any problem with him. Many of them do believe he got robbed.

My big worry about '08 is whether or not it will be an honest election. Out of the group of potential candidates I've seen so far, Kerry looks the best to me. On DU, there seems to be a lot of Dem bashing, which I really don't understand, and from what I've seen, Kerry gets the worst of it. I've also noticed it's often the same people over and over doing the bashing. I think it's what's referred to as a "vocal minority". It doesn't mean a damn thing, but it does piss me off.

I think Kerry will continue to fight against this administration, and that makes me feel a little better. I certainly wouldn't waste my tears over what a vocal minority say (over and over and over), about John Kerry. He's nothing if not a fighter, and he will be fine.

[Hans Delbrook]

18. It's actually a fairly common phenomenon

Allow me to use the 2 whole semesters of psychology I had in college (waaay back when)...

Did you ever notice how quickly some people turn on "their" sports team when they lose? How they become almost maniacal in their hatred? It's because they don't want to be associated with a loser because deep down they're afraid they really are losers and they're getting what they deserve.

I've seen the same phenomenon among voters and political supporters for years now. The fact that it's sooooo common among democrats makes me wonder - what are we really so afraid of???

I've never turned on any of our losing candidates because, what is that saying?, we may not always be on the winning side but we're always on the right side.

[LittleClarkie]

20. To me, some of these folks need to admit they share in the loss

Some of them act as if they did nothing wrong during the campaign and Kerry did nothing right. Neither is true. As in when folks point out that Kerry will never have this level of support again. Well, is that a bad thing when the ABBers were more against Bush than for Kerry? Do we want support from someone who really isn't a supporter? Not that I don't appeciate their contribution, but I feel very strongly that we all share in the loss, not just Kerry.

Perhaps you're right. That's what these folks are running from. But it's just so arrogant to blame it all on John.

[TayTay]

21. Remember

In Dec 2003 more people thought John Kerry would end up dropping out of the race than thought he had a chance to finish in the top 2 in Iowa. (Fred Kaplan, Kerry-hater extrodinaire on slate.com was actually running a 'what excuse will John Kerry use when he drops out' contest. I hate him.) I believe the common 'pundit' wisdom was proven wrong.

Once again, it's too early and nobody knows anything about what will happen. Kerry does have a base of support. (We all read that incredible diary on DKos about Kerry 's appearance at a supporters dinner in CA. The guy has a lot of people who still feel very strongly about him. And not just women - ahm partial LOL!) He also has MSM critics who don't like him. We shall see. But any reports that he is 'out of it' are laughable cuz it's just an unknowable at this point.

Chill out, have a glass of wine (or green tea) and relax. The esteemed Junior Senator from MA is doing his thing right now and fighting for Truth, Justice and a decent American Way of Life in the Senate. This is what he should be doing. He is going on the Dem counter-Rethug SSI tour to help prevent * and his evil Rethug minions from wrecking one of the great American social programs. He will be speaking out for Kids Healthcare and for other sensible initiatives. Go John Go. I still got your back, buddy! The rest will settle itself out in time.

I believe, I guess. (That and 'Don't worry, be happy!) I guess I'm having a cliche night.

[elshiva]

23. Sitting shiva...

I am very upset and angry. And It's All Kerry's fault, NOT. I hate all this bashing. I hate people blasting Dem Senators. I can't stand that DUer who called the Kennedys hacks. After everything the Kennedys have done and still do! Yes and Kerry voting liberal 99% of the time (not perfect, but excellent).

[politicasista]

24. I feel what you are saying

I get depressed when I visit GD, cause it's nothing but sour grapes or who can run and win and so on. All these vicious, mean-spirited attacks on Kerry will not change what's happened. Somedays I want to cry about it cause it's not fair this is happening. You guys are cool over here.