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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 12:30 PM
Original message
Foreign policy thoughts that have been out there
http://www.cfr.org/publication/14669/conversation_with_john_kerry.html">John Kerry, Council on Foreign Relations, Oct 2007

But it seems to me there are, above all, three predominant challenges in terms of the foreign policy of our country, which is obviously a challenge that it has been in a long, long time. This is the most extraordinary period of negligence, arrogance, indifference, incompetence mix of engagement with respect to world affairs to the degree that we are obviously -- and everybody knows this within certainly opinion circles -- as troubled as we have been as a nation in terms of our credibility and our leverage at any time in modern memory.

It's been so repeated almost in these last months that you don't have to go back through the litany of the whys and wherefores. The question is: Where are we going to go, and how are we going to get there? And I would respectfully suggest that a great deal of that is going to be answered automatically the moment we have a new president, and it will be an unprecedented moment of opportunity to move on any numbers of fronts simultaneously that can much more rapidly than a lot of people think make up for the roads untraveled in these past years. To some degree, there may even be a pent-up demand that, with the right creativity and the right leadership, will afford us an opportunity to do some things that you might not otherwise have been able to. And I really believe that, particularly if the outcome with respect to the Congress is also, and I hope it will be with respect to the presidency.

But let me just summarize. There are three most significant compelling international issues, none of which are receiving the attention and the creative diplomacy that they deserve.

The first, obviously, is the war on terror itself, as it's been named, ineptly and inaptly, but the whole question of extreme jihadism, under whatever rubric you want to put it.

The second is -- remains something we've lived with all of our lifetimes, and that's the nuclear challenge and the challenge of proliferation and the ability to continue what we started with Nunn-Lugar and the other efforts in terms of securing those -- that fissile material that's already out there.

And the third -- and this is the one I want to talk about briefly today -- is now global climate change, in no uncertain terms.

Time magazine recently had a headline and it said, "How to Prevent the Next Darfur." Step one: get serious global climate change.


http://www.cfr.org/publication/11874/">Hillary Clinton, Council on Foreign Relations, Oct 2006

I want to suggest three principles I believe should underlie a bipartisan consensus on national security and consider how they apply to some of the most difficult challenges we face.

First and most obviously, we must, by word and deed, renew internationalism for a new century. We did not face World War II alone, we did not face the Cold War alone and we cannot face the global terrorist threat or other profound challenges alone, either. A terrorist cell may recruit in Southeast Asia, train in Central Asia, find funds in the Middle East and plan attacks in the U.S. or Europe. We can stop a deadly disease anywhere along the line as it hopscotches from continent to continent or we can wait until it arrives at our own doors. We can deal with climate change together now or excuse its calamitous consequences later. We can turn our back on international institutions or we can modernize and revitalize them, and when needed, get about the hard work of creating new ones.

Second, we must value diplomacy as well as a strong military. We should not hesitate to engage in the world’s most difficult conflicts on the diplomatic front. We cannot leave the Middle East to solve itself, or avoid direct talks with North Korea. When faced with an existential challenge to the life of our nation, President Kennedy said, “Let us never negotiate from fear, but let us never fear to negotiate.” Direct negotiations are not a sign of weakness, they’re a sign of leadership.

Third, our foreign policy must blend both idealism and realism in the service of American interests. If there’s one idea that has been floated about over the last six years that I would like to see debunked, with all due respect to some of the political scientists in the room, it is this false choice between realism and idealism. Is it realist or idealist to stop nuclear proliferation? Is it realist or idealist to come together on global warming? Is it realist or idealist to help developing nations educate their children, fight diseases and grow their economies? And is it realist or idealist to believe we must turn around the ideology underpinning terrorism?


Interesting.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. I believe in these words of Senator Kerry...
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 01:09 PM by YvonneCa
... "And I would respectfully suggest that a great deal of that is going to be answered automatically the moment we have a new president, and it will be an unprecedented moment of opportunity to move on any numbers of fronts simultaneously that can much more rapidly than a lot of people think make up for the roads untraveled in these past years. To some degree, there may even be a pent-up demand that, with the right creativity and the right leadership, will afford us an opportunity to do some things that you might not otherwise have been able to. And I really believe that, particularly if the outcome with respect to the Congress is also, and I hope it will be with respect to the presidency."

Obama is the beginning of the right creativity and right leadership. He is surrounding himself with VERY STRONG leaders at a time when we are at such a critical point that we don't have one Democrat to waste. JMHO. Our economy is a mess, our credibility and leadership in the world is gone, and we are being threatened...simultaneously...by climate change and the threat from fundamentalism.

Obama, IMO, does not have the luxury of taking these problems on in sequence. If one tries to prioritize them, one unfortunately ends up with 4 or 5 # 1 priorities. So he is creatively setting in motion a government structure to tackle all these things at the same time. I think he has no choice. We DO need all hands on deck...and while I have my own personal qualms with Hillary (to take one example, the botched joke) she generally is a patriotic American, as is her husband. Under Obama's leadership, she will be a strong force we can't afford to lose.

Just think for a moment... For eight years our foreign policy has been determined by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. Look at the foreign policy team that is shaping up (if the media is right) under Obama: Obama and Biden (Pres. and VP) Clinton (State) Kerry (SFRC) and others TBD. This is a HUGE change from the road we were on. These folks will end Iraq and refocus our military efforts. They will close Guantanamo. They will make sure torture is not happening. They will NOT follow a policy of pre-emptive war (Bush Doctrine). They WILL restore our credibility (We're BAAaaaacckkk!!!) in the world. And they have the credentials and stature to lead on the world stage on important issues, like climate change etc.

Finally...with the exception of Iraq policy which was very divisive to our Dems (I believe because they were, 1.human, and 2. lied to)...I don't see that Hillary, if she is to be SOS, will be that far off from where Obama is on foreign policy. I may be wrong on that, but that's where I am now.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is interesting.
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 01:17 PM by ProSense
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hadn't seen that. It IS an interesting...
...interview.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. yes, I thought that was interesting, too.
Gosh, he must be over 80 now, but he's still very very sharp.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, very well thought, including how the national security team can play, depending
who has Obama's hear.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Why? This is boilerplate that every democrat and half of the Republicans use.
Edited on Sat Nov-22-08 01:51 PM by Mass
Well, I already knew that neither Kerry or Clinton were isolationist, or totally neo-cons. But there are issues and views that are more important.

The problem is what actual policy is implemented. I really liked Brezninsky (sp?) interview that ProSense posted. What can make the real difference is more who advises the president than who is going to implement the policies the president implement. I have no doubts that Hillary Clinton will be a good implementor. I have some serious disagreements with policies she has proposed in the past and votes she has taken, and would hate to see her be Obama's main adviser on these issues. That is all and probably not on topic in this forum.

Now, I have no doubt any of these people is a great improvement against the exiting team. This does not mean that some of us would not like to see something better happen.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That is the point
We as Democrats believe in 90-95% of the same things for foreign policy.

It was heartening to see Sen. Clinton back in 2006 talking about climate change as a foreign policy issue. It was great to see her talking about the need for America to understand her image abroad and how the use of our "soft" power affects that.

I think we are going to have an wonderful team in place in both the Executive and Congressional branches.

Guess that makes me still a hope-monger.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The Clintons always talk a good game
What they say has never been the problem. But I choose to hold out hope that Obama will guide a more enlightened policy and she will do the implementing in terms of womens' rights, children, labor, the environment, and all those things she says she cares about. No point in getting all depressed until there's something absolute to get depressed about.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Me, too. We hope-mongers can't give up...
...before there's even an inauguration. What kind of hope-mongers would we be if we did that? :7
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-22-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. policy isn't the issue
For me, the implementation, and style of implementation, and stupid petty power struggles distracting from the purpose at hand, are the things that worry me about this choice. And, to be blunt, I don't see HRC as a statesman (not to mention the issue of her managerial skills. . )
I keep telling myself that Obama has shown good judgment so far in his choices, but. . .I share the skepticism and concern that many have expressed in this forum and elsewhere.

I have high hopes for the general enterprise, and for the national security team, and for JK at the helm at the SFRC, and I know that things will be better, for sure (and thank God) than the last 8 years. But I am deeply skeptical about HRC at State. Andrew Sullivan struck a chord when he wrote (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/clinton-accepts.html), "I defer to no one in Clinton Derangement Syndrome, which is why I believe it's good for them to have their hands full and to be kept under surveillance." So the hope I have for this appt is that it will in fact serve the purpose of keeping the appointee busy and under surveillance
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. busy and under surveillance
Worst case scenario, she's busy and under surveillance. Best case scenario, she actually manages to use the Clinton brand for something good, and I do think she does care about women's issues and children. And she can't very well do a backstab on foreign policy when she's in charge of State, or at least it won't be as easy. I've decided to just get popcorn and hope for the best.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm hoping for the best, too
Obama has made good choices so far, and I do have the faith and hope that he knows what he's doing here. Yes, I'd love to be surprised, and see that this post brings out the best in HRC.
But I may need more than popcorn to watch this in action.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm with you on the ...
...popcorn. :7

You know, I've always believed that Bush had negatives going into 2000, just because of his 'brand'...the name BUSH. It set up negative expectations around the world even before he starting talking policy.( It all went down hill from there.) I think the same is true of a Clinton...only in a more positive way. HRC named to State will send an 'instant message' to the world that America is back. Obama's election did that first, and Hillary as part of his administration will reinforce that. Then...it's up to her and her actions as SOS as to whether her 'brand' remains a plus. I'm pretty confident she will try to make that happen. To do less would be bad for the country, and for her future as well.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. I have a lot of hope about this government. It does not mean I have to be blind to
the risk such an appointment brings.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
17.  " " " " " n/t
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. Actually, Obama hinted at his plans well before Iowa:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/245525.php

I have to say that made me chuckle. I remember when it happened and thought it was funny. The fact that he was dead serious is interesting.

No doubt Chairman Kerry and Secretary of State Clinton will work well together due to common purpose. Perhaps all slights are now "even", and everyone can let bygones be bygones and move forward. Here is hoping that happens.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. We have to.
The situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan is on the precipice. We need grown-ups who put the good of the country first. I am confident that whoever serves this nation now has that first in mind.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I really hope you are right
PS: I still hate it, but I am trying to get used to the ieda
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