I always assumed this was an element of what happened in 2004

[Luftmensch067]

But this very moving diary says it plainly:

Please, Clinton supporters, take a lesson from a guy who's been there.

As a perfect-stormer Deaniac who ultimately failed to fully support John Kerry, I deeply appreciate what you are going through.

We can go on and on about the differences between Dean '04 and Clinton '08. Ultimately, you and I both face the effective conclusion of our candidate's campaigns before he or she concedes, and certainly before the rules say we must stop.

The heart says go on. Believe me, I know the feeling.

And then, when we are forced to stop, the viciousness, anger, bitterness, and spite boil up.

What comes next? I can tell you.

I did not take command of myself, drive out that bitterness, and embrace the nominee.

I did not fully commit my emotional, intellectual, rhetorical, and practical strengths one hundred percent to him.

And we lost.

[MonteLukast]

1. Finally, a real mea culpa.

He didn't insert no stinking qualifiers. None whatsoever. No "Kerry was a lousy candidate". No "Kerry wasn't interesting enough".

The sad part is what would have happened if he HAD overcome his inertia. Not only in terms of the election. In terms of how wonderful, complex, moral and yes, interesting, JK really was.

[JI7]

2. reading GD , many of these people still have not gotten over it

i still see threads attacking Kerry and people insisting their candidate would have won in a landslide. of course they blame the media for their candidate losing. if the media had that power in the Primary then why do they think their candidate would have been tough enough to deal with it in GE.

it was nice to see this post. and i have to admit, it's really hypocritical for many people who are attacking Hillary now after their behavior in 2004 if they didn't support Kerry. but of course the same applies to some Hillary supporters who wanted unity even before the voting started but aren't giving it now.

personally for those who don't like the candidate i just want them to shut up about it. i would rather than shut up and not vote for the candidate than piss and moan about the candidate while ending with "but i will vote for him while holding my nose". that bs hurts more than helps.

[beachmom]

3. Oh, this is a MUST READ diary (hmmm ... Cameron's friend was unhelpful in Calif.)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/2/221720/2609/44/527797

I was the "crazy screaming woman" Hotlist
by LauraD
Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:47 PM PDT

No, not the one from Manhattan at the DNC RBC who was all WTF.

I was the "crazy screaming woman" from Berkeley about 4 years ago at the Lamorinda Democratic Clubs straw vote just before the CA primary.

backstory:
I was grieving because the first candidate I'd ever been really excited about wasn't going to be the Democratic candidate . I was angry because I felt that he had been treated badly by the Democratic party in general and I felt that John Kerry was behind some of that. I was angry because the press had conspired with the "powers that be" to push the person I felt was the best candidate, the person I felt would be the best president out of the race.

* LauraD's diary :: ::
*

Yes I was a "Deaniac," though I hated that term. However if it fit anyone, it fit me. Dean was the first candidate I donated to and I donated up to the legal limit (as a kindergarten teacher, that is a significant amount of money for me) I had spent most weekends and many weeknights tabling at farmer's markets, running meet-ups, blogging, doing whatever I could. I even bought myself a plane ticket and went to Iowa for the first two weeks of the "Perfect Storm" I was smitten with the Dean campaign. I had even been selected as a Dean delegate for my district.

To say I was "emotionally invested" in the campaign is to put it mildly.

So even though Dean had dropped out of the race right before the straw poll. I was going and I was going to vote for Dean!

I had already cried my eyes out with my fellow Dean supporters and I thought I was getting ready to move on, but I wanted one last night to vote for Dean and since a lot of the people I knew from Lamorinda were Dean people I thought he might win the straw poll and I thought that might help me move on.

So there were speakers for each of the candidates. One of our group spoke with great eloquence on why he was a Dean supporter and why it was still worth voting for Dean. Then the Edwards supporter spoke with great eloquence about how he was inspired by Edwards. The Kuchinich supporter was inspired and inspirational and gave a gracious nod of emotional support to the Dean people because she understood how we felt. That helped.

Then the Kerry guy stepped up to the mic. He started out by saying something to the effect of, "Wow! I'm surprised to see so many supporters for the other candidates. I was expecting everyone to be wearing Kerry buttons by this point." . . . . crickets chirped . . . He then went on to say that he was there because he had gone to prep school with John's brother so when they called him to come down from Alaska (seriously? every other campaign had someone local and the Kerry campaign had this putz fly down from frickin' Alaska?- because he went to prep school with his brother???) . . . yeah this was not helping with my feelings for the Kerry campaign. So he goes on and on and some of us are obviously not feeling the love so he calls us on it. He lectures us on how we *"fell in love"* but now we need to *"fall in line"* and I'm blinking back tears because it hasn't been a week yet and I'm still grieving but I know I have to fall in line but I don't wan to be in a line with this a-wipe from Alaska who wants me to support Kerry because he played water polo with his brother. Then he realizes he has made a mistake ( I think he saw the smoke coming out of my ears) and he says.. "I know it's hard. . . * I feel your pain * " . . . then he laughs.

With some time and distance I can now see that it was probably a nervous laugh, but it it was the laugh that broke this camel's back.

I lost it.

I stood up and I shouted. "You do NOT feel MY PAIN!!! You would need a soul to feel my pain!" And I stormed out of the room crying. I found my self in the kitchen. A few other Dean people were there. They were smart enough to leave the room before they started screaming like a crazy person. They were pretending to get the snack trays ready for the mingling and munching portion of the evening. I picked up the knife that had been used to cut veggies and stared at it. I would never use it but it was kind of fun to think about. I was that angry. I remember saying that John Kerry was lucky he was running against George Bush because if the Republican was someone like John McCain I would vote for him just to spite John Kerry.

So while I think the women threatening to vote for John McCain need to stop and think and get some perspective, and while I hope the super delegates stop this thing before Denver, and while I'm all for Obama at this point (and have been since Edwards dropped out) I think we need to cut these women some slack.

They are grieving. They have until November to work through this. Telling them to get over it and "fall in line" right not isn't productive and isn't compassionate. The super delegates need to "fall in line" this week, the voters can take some more time to grieve. It would help if there candidate is as gracious as mine was in dropping out, but if she isn't then we need to be a little more patient with her followers. Wait until after the convention to start working on them. Even then take it gently.

I moved on. The convention helped. Meeting some nice people who were working for Kerry because they were inspired by him helped. I wound up volunteering for ACT in Reno. For those of you who showed up the weekend before election day I was the woman dressed like the Statue of Liberty who greeted you at the door and sent you to your assigned station. I have to say that though I was ready to vote for Kerry. I was kind of glad that I wasn't allowed to wear a Kerry button. If that guy from Alaska hadn't pushed me too soon, I probably would have been more excited about jumping on the Kerry bandwagon. But he did and I wasn't.

So. . . don't be that guy.

I am not sure if we will be any more successful this time than last in healing. It is pretty obvious from her story that the guy was not terribly experienced with nuts and bolts grassroots outreach; otherwise, he would have been a hell of a lot more tactful. It seems he was not warned what he would be in for. That is one advantage for this year: Obama people will know there are really hurt feelings, and hopefully do a better job in outreach. Hate to say it, but we're going to have to make sure people really know what McCain is about -- that he is just as radical as Bush on foreign policy.

[beachmom]

5. Okay, I ran into trouble on the thread. Some people can't let it go

from FOUR YEARS ago!! I didn't think Kerry was tied to that Osama ad against Dean. Am I right?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9407E3DF1F3CF934A25751C1A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

The ties seem to be with Gephardt. The only "Kerry tie" I see is this:

The admission by the three labor unions that they gave to the Americans for Jobs, Health Care and Progressive Values, which has refused to disclose its donors until it is legally required to do so early next year, only furthered the perception that it was somehow connected to Mr. Gephardt's campaign.

Its treasurer, Mr. Jones, is a former fund-raiser for Mr. Gephardt. The group's president, Edward F. Feighan, a former Ohio congressman, donated $2,000 to Mr. Gephardt's campaign. Its new spokesman, Robert Gibbs, had been the press secretary for the presidential campaign of Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts until a few weeks ago.

I have to chuckle since I just saw Robert Gibbs on Morning Joe this morning on behalf of the Obama campaign. Does anyone know why Gibbs left the Kerry campaign? Are Deaniacs right that the ad was a giant conspiracy by Kerry to destroy Dean?

Oh, okay, former Deaniacs DID notice that Gibbs worked for Obama, and spoke up at the time:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2007/02/obama_spokesman_under_scrutiny.html

The barrage leveled against Gibbs was kicked off by Democratic blogger Jerome Armstrong, a founder of MyDD.com, in a scathing indictment titled, "Robert Gibbs, the drag on Obama."

The genesis of Armstrong's rage against Gibbs has to do with Gibbs's involvement during the '04 cycle in the secretive 527 political group "Americans for Jobs, Health Care and Progressive Values," which created the infamous Osama bin Laden ad attacking Dean for lacking military and foreign affairs experience.

In his blog posting, Armstrong called the ad "the single most disgusting ad I've ever seen occur in a Democratic primary." He suggested that Gibbs is two-faced, asking, "Does Gibbs still believe that a Presidential candidate with 'no military or foreign policy experience' is 'unqualified'? Then how, Gibbs, is Barack Obama going compete with John McCain on foreign policy?"

...

The thinking among some Democratic operatives is that Armstrong may just be bitter. After all, Armstrong was left out of the presidential sweepstakes fun after his candidate (Warner) bailed out of the race. Interestingly, Armstrong is consulting now for Sen. John Kerry. (Also interesting: Gibbs worked for Kerry briefly in '04, and Kerry still hasn't endorsed another candidate since pulling out of the race himself.)

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/22/101914/565

Armstrong provides some details:

Robert Gibbs was was spokesperson for John Kerry in 2003, and he worked under the direction of Jim Jordan. Both of them grew to detest Howard Dean, as they saw their frontrunner candidate slip in his position to Howard Dean over the year. For Jordan, it was a case of terrible strategic advice that he was fired, but he went on to position himself below the media production through in 2004 and did quite well. Robert Gibbs remained a spokesperson, but his next gig wasn't Barack Obama until after Obama won the primary in 2004. Before that, Gibbs became the spokesman for a new group called "Americans for Jobs, Health Care and Progressive Values". A group that promptly created the most disgusting ad I've ever seen occur in a Democratic primary against Howard Dean.

Oh, more here in the Wiki on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gibbs

Early in the 2004 presidential campaign, Gibbs was the press secretary of Democratic candidate John Kerry. On November 11, 2003, Gibbs resigned "in reaction to the firing of Jim Jordan, abruptly let go by Kerry Sunday night." Gibbs was replaced by Stephanie Cutter, a former spokeswoman for Edward M. Kennedy. After leaving the Kerry campaign, Gibbs became spokesman for Americans for Jobs, Health Care and Progressive Values, a Democratic group formed to stop the 2004 presidential campaign of Howard Dean.<3>

Okay, I don't like the Gibbs guy if he was so connected with Jordan. So, no, this does not tie Kerry with the Osama ad.

More here. Gibbs has indeed been with Obama since he won his Senate primary in 2004:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/01/the_obama_inner_circle.html

Robert Gibbs: Gibbs, a longtime communications operative with a special focus on the Senate, has been with Obama since shortly after his 2004 primary victory. Prior to that Gibbs served as a spokesman for Sen. John Kerry's (D-Mass.) presidential bid. Gibbs, like Plouffe, has experience in the nitty-gritty of Democratic politics, having served as the communications director at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and as campaign spokesman for Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-S.C.) in 1998. He will be the campaign's communications director.

[Mass]

6. He left after Jim Jordan was fired. They were friends.

I heard this conspiracy theory. The only link between the ad and the Kerry campaign was a former employee who left the campaign in bad terms with Kerry. Certainly a very logic move to put that on Kerry's back.

[rox63]

4. Apparently it's "Dump on Kerry" day in GD:P today

Lots of frustrated Hillary fans have decided to take out their anger on Kerry. Not sure why they picked him for their target. :shrug:

[Mass]

7. Yes. Not sure why?

[politicasista]

8. Someone noted in one of the threads...

that this smells like a coordinated political attack on Kerry. :puke:

ProSense noted (I agree too) that it mainly because of this.

[beachmom]

10. I'm having some fun with it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6245065

And then I mention Kerry is on Cspan right now.

[karynnj]

11. I assume that many might see that his endorsement

and strong work as an advocate were extremely important to Obama. Kerry endorsed a few days after WJC did his "fairy tale" thing. Kerry was on the talk shows that Sunday countering those lies with grace, honesty and sincerity. He also was the key person who fought Bill Clinton's sleazy attempt to get rid of the casino caucuses. In both cases, the contrast between the honorable Kerry speaking truth and the red faced, finger in your face Bill was stunning.

One problem that people always thought any one running against HRC would have a major problem because Bill was the premier surrogate anyone could have. He could command TV at will and was always treated with respect. There was no one near his status level. When Kerry endorsed, he gave Obama a very high status surrogate. His discipline and integrity advantages likely compensated for the difference in status.

That's here on DU, for the real HRC people, an additional factor might be that in an odd way that is an inverse relationship between Kerry's power and theirs. In 2004, they likely knew that many would not be in his government - at least for long. They would likely lose their Democratic party in exile jobs because the party would be going in a different direction and would not be in exile. Now, Kerry is essentially Obama's Kennedy - though he has a real Kennedy as well.

In addition, as the books are written on this primary season, I suspect that the Clinton people will not follow the example of the Kerry people where only Shrum has written a book. I would bet that in the Clinton circus of egos, there will be attacks on what others did and there is some chance that the actions of 2000 and 2004 might be reassessed.

[TayTay]

9. By the way, thank you

Today appears to be "one of those days" on some forums here.

As ever, you guys are the very best. Thank you for your defense and for what you do on a daily basis. Sen. Kerry is truly lucky and blessed to have all of you folks in his corner.

Once again, all my love and thanks to you. You guys well and truly rock! It is deeply and truly appreciated.