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Man, do I miss seeing and hearing Kerry speeches. Just went to an Obama rally

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 08:07 PM
Original message
Man, do I miss seeing and hearing Kerry speeches. Just went to an Obama rally
Edited on Fri May-02-08 08:08 PM by blm
nearby - Obama popped into an arena nearby for a get out the vote rally here before he zipped over to Raleigh.

Of course I enjoyed the atmosphere, but he really is not that compelling a speaker live, though he does show up well on camera - he has low moments and high ones and tedious ones and glorious ones just like anyone else, and I did hear a LOT of Kerry in his speech. I guess that is what made me miss Kerry more. I wish he had been allowed the opportunity for some serious attention paid to his speeches and not just the media filter and spin.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think Obama has had a few "Dissent" moments but not every day.
That is the interesting thing that is going on here. SOME Obama supporters (not all) talked up how Obama's charisma and political talents would save him from what Kerry went through. Well, um, guess again. Nobody will escape it, and of course, the media is now trained to filter out the good stuff from Obama just like they did with Kerry.

Kerry is still the best. When I did my diary on him yesterday he was just totally right and could be completely counted on. I think that over time we could have that with Obama; however, it is too early to know. And, sadly, he didn't use his freshman term as senator to take down Bush crimes like Kerry did with his freshman term in taking down Reagan/Bush. The timing was different, of course, but that is yet another example of what a treasure Kerry is to our country.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Many of the morons out there have no clue about how effed up this nation would've been
by the end of the 80s if IranContra and BCCI had gone unnoticed, undiscussed and uninvestigated.

I am certain that FULL ON global fascism would be entrenched in its second decade by now.
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MBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Treasure is the word, absolutely. n/t
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. I miss Kerry too. I have left a little distance between myself and this presidential campaign.
I really want to see Senator Obama win, but I just don't feel as connected to him as I was to Senator Kerry. I was devastated after the dirtiness and the supposed loss in 2004. I don't want to get that deeply involved this time around.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There are two sides to this whole thing
at least from where I sit. I guess I have been listening to too much talk radio (i.e. Michael Baisden, Tom Joyner) hearing how the hosts themselves and listeners call in and say how much more enthusiastic they are now (mainly for Obama) compared to past elections. While they don't mention Gore and Kerry by name, I sometimes am wondering where were these people 4, even 8 years ago? But as blm told me a while back that INFORMED citizens were thrilled to vote for a candidate that was an open government dem, which was REAL change. (Ok, I am paraphrasing).

I know Obama isn't Kerry. He has his own style. I think the bright side is that people are waking up to the media bias this time around. They couldn't see that it was in place four years ago, but the Anti-Obama spin has them paying attention now.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Obama is more easily able to attract large numbers of people on first appearance
like that convention speech.

Kerry is more the type where people have to really get a chance to listen to. in the Primary, especially the earlier states Kerry was able to do this because most of those voters actually went to hear him speak in person.

so i can see people being more excited this time around at this point. i think with Kerry most people really saw him and what he was during the debates.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. True dat
Plus, people are sick of Bush and Cheney, being lied and fear-mongered.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. It's actually pretty complicated
I think it was Walter Shapiro, who observed following the candidates in Iowa the difference between Kerry and Edwards. Of Edwards, he said, that he always got a huge engaging smile and exuded warmth while a camera was on him covering an event or in an interview. Then camera off, it faded and he essentially receded from the people. Kerry, he said actually was warmer, funnier and more engaged when the cameras were off - Edwards played to the cameras, Kerry was somewhat more guarded when they were on. Obama is really between them - less reserved than Kerry or Gore, but more reserved than Bill Clinton or John Edwards.

Candidates meet people in what is really a pretty artificial setting, usually having them trying to get across who you are in front of a large group of people - rather than in real life having people decide who you are as you go about doing what you are doing. The former favors extroverts over people who are more reserved; people willing to throw out simple solutions over those wanting to explain that things aren't that simple, but there are solutions; and it favors artificial over genuine.

As to charisma - if it is the way that someone entering any group immediately becomes a positive focus of attention - Kerry has it. Part of the problem might be that in 2003 the media narrative became that only Dean was anti-war and many who would have likely been Kerry's most natural supporters not only preferred Dean, but believed many negative things Dean said, especially in February, as his chances faded. I kind of wonder what it would have been like had he voted against the IWR giving nearly the same speech - but saying it was premature to essentially approve war and waited until 2008 - with most people seeing Dissent as his first major speech and maybe having "Going Upriver" put out a few years before running. (like McCain's POW movie) No way that either Obama or Edwards could even tried to be the anti-war candidate (I have no idea who the 2004 candidate would have been in that case - but Bush would have won. Obama was a star and could still have gotten the speech) Kerry would have been seen as charismatic, but a scared wounded party likely still would have gone to "the only people who can win, the Clintons. The network Kerry built in 2004 would not exist and he would not have been as strong pushing a victory in 2006 and it is unlikely the "2004" candidate would have done as Kerry did.

In 2004, as it really happened, even with this loss of people who should have liked and respected him, Kerry generated huge enthusiastic crowds - while the media called him boring and aloof. Remember Clinton benefited from a very sycophantic media - following the ever increasing crowds as if it were a wave. Kerry broke those records and people would never know that from the media. Given the actual response in those late October rallies, I really think that Kerry would have been seen as being as charismatic as Obama, who benefited from having been described as charismatic since before the convention speech. (Though without the substance that Obama has, it would not have gotten further than Edwards, who was clearly identified even in 2000 as the "new Bill Clinton" based mostly on glibness, hair and a smile.)

One bit of evidence that Kerry did connect on a deep level with many in 2004 is that there is a very weird way that he is now treated on the various boards - he is held to far higher standards - almost like people feel there is something that entitles them to demand that. Think of how many times an issue comes up and people asked - Why hasn't Kerry .... You still don't see that with Obama and HRC yet.

This has meandered far off topic - I do think that had Kerry become President and people would have seen far more of who he is and how he acts and thinks, his unusual eloquence - which rivals Obama's and outclasses Clinton and Edwards - people the media designated charismatic - would make him be seen as charismatic.



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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Everything is spot on
Edited on Sat May-03-08 02:37 PM by politicasista
just to add one observation. We agree that Kerry has been held to a higher standard than most politicians, but there are a some correlations between him and Obama. Out of the two Dems running, Obama is held to a much higher standard than HRC.

Case in point, talking about issues that matter to the black community or black America. This is something that Kerry was criticized for in 2004, and what Obama is being criticized for now.

When he started gaining ground on the AA vote, the questions were/are: "Is he black enough?" (:eyes:) "Why isn't he focused on helping Katrina victims/NOLA, and the AA community?" or "Why isn't he reaching out or addressing the issues of black America?"

Some black leaders and activists (i.e. Tavis Smiley, Cornel West) publicly were not happy with Obama skipping the State of the Black Union symposium in NOLA (never mind that the campaign wanted to send Michelle as a surrogate, but Tavis refused the offer :grr:. Only HRC accepted); and the MLK Day 4/4/08 event in Memphis (HRC and McCain appeared).

I wish they would have told him that privately because the media spun it as Obama (if elected) would not do much for the black community or turn away from them and their issues. It's still mind boggling to hear the talk (not much like years past) that a white person will do more for black America than one of their own. (:puke:).

And Obama has had to really tread lightly on this because race has been a sensitive subject in this primary election. He has to avoid being seen or spun as an "angry black candidate." He has to show that he can be the candidate for ALL of America, not just black America. Yes, it would be nice that he showed up in a housing project, but when your are running for high office like the POTUS, you have to appeal to everyone. Most AA I know get that, some still don't.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I agree and HRC has in fact used that
In the NH debate, she made a nasty crack about him having been against the Patriot Act in 2004 - but then voting for it in 2006. The reality was that it was the revised bill and he had voted against cloture - that she voted for - after cloture passed they had no more leverage to negotiate. But it was one in a series of things she faulted him for that she did as well.

Not to mention the constant theme - they hit Obama 2 or 3 times, he attacks them on some issue - they claim he was a phony for attacking because he was for "new politics".
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I agree, more people are on to the media this time around.
I also think, like I did with Senator Kerry, that we need new and different Dem's and that is why I want to see this country rise above the racism, hatred and ignorance and elect Senator Obama.
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