I just can't take it any more

[paulk]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1586929


The OP had to "sell out their basic values and beliefs" to support John Kerry. Kerry ran a backroom fax smear campaign to sabotage Dean. The Clintons used Clark to take Dean down. Kerry is a party hack.

????????????

I don't understand this - and after three years here at DU, I am SO FUCKING SICK of this crap that I can't even post on this stuff any more, for fear of getting tombstoned. When are these assholes going to stop with this crap? I used to try and be reasonable - I tried to engage, to argue, to make a point. Anymore I just lash out.

DU is turning ME into an asshole, and I don't like it.

[JI7]

1. hey, don't be too hard on them

maybe they supported the death penalty unlike Kerry. maybe they had a problem with environmental regulations which Kerry favored and where Dean leaned in favor of big businesses.

so in that case they felt they did have to "sell out their basic values and beliefs".

[JohnKleeb]

21. snarf

:).

[TayTay]

2. Hi Paulk, I just posted in that ...

thread just for you.

Let me know if I was too mushy.

[whometense]

3. You were

MAGNIFICENT.

Seriously. I was thinking of posting to back you up, but your post was so perfect I don't want to dilute its impact with me-tooism.

[TayTay]

4. I do know it won't do any good

But I wanted to give you happy feelings that others feel as you do.

We Kerrycrats need to re-inforce each other sometimes. For our own good. We deserve good things too!

[paulk]

14. that was excellent

you said everything that needed to be said.

:toast:

[TheDonkey]

5. I'd advise you to stay out of there! bad for your health

JK Group is a good place to go.

[JI7]

6. agree

i'm not sure how long everyone on here has been on DU. but these types of attacks on Kerry have been going on for YEARS. even when he became the nominee.

you can't reason with many of these people. the best is to ignore most of them .

[TayTay]

7. There must be a way to come up with...

the Canonical List of responses to Idiots as regards negative posts about JK.

Let me see what I can come up with. This might be fun. (I obviously have an odd idea about what constitutes fun!)

[Laurab]

10. I think I have an odd opinion of fun, too

I'll be looking forward to what you come up with!

[TayTay]

12. I will post a beginning on this...

tonight when I am home.

We need the Canonical list of Kerry ---positive

and the Canonical List of Kerry -- negative.

I like this. It will be just a beginning as I would not think of being definitive on this. (Very undemocratic. Who died and elected me Gawd, ya know.) Should be interesting.

[JI7]

13. it is best to ignore some of them if you can though

since many of those posts tend to just drop down without many responses which is the best thing when it comes to some of those threads.

what i have a bigger problem with is if there is a post which shows something Kerry is doing currently that is positive and some ass shows up with some comment like "too little too late" and some other shit.

[Firespirit]

8. Yeah I remember the nastiness the night that he won the first primaries

At that time I was an Edwardsie, but gawd almighty I didn't have a huge problem with the way it looked to be going.

Anyway, you are dead on; just about everything that is being said today, was said then.

Skull and Bones? IWR vote? Sabotaged Dean? "Boring"? "Unelectable"? All of it was being said then. I think the only new additions are "Kerry's campaign was the worst in history" (paraphrasing here) and "Kerry let us down post-election." They must have suppressed it during the campaign season, and what's going on now is the explosion of all that pent-up unexpressed dislike (and probable jealousy).

[Laurab]

9. It is so ridiculous

I had someone tell me I was in "lock-step" yesterday, and something about swooning over a "heart throb pin-up" . I pretty much lost it, and it really takes a lot to get me mad.

I was simply defending JK as being the decent man that he is. What I don't understand is that these people are bound and determined to make Kerry out to be some kind of evil man. WHAT is their problem? There are so many truly evil men to choose from, why JK?

Anyway, sometimes I think I can't take it anymore either, but are we going to let them take over and character assassinate the guy at every turn? It seems those are the options, so I continue to put my two cents in whenever I stumble across one of those posts. And no matter how positive a thread, no matter what Kerry has done, sooner or later, one of those posts show up. I just don't get it...

[Firespirit]

15. Lock-step??

Lock-step with whom exactly? Who in the party is pushing us to lock-step with any potential candidate this early? Geez. How lame.

And oh... well, he is kind of a heart throb pin-up, but that's not the point. That's not why we like and support him. It's just a nice side benefit to it.

[Laurab]

19. Here, I'll share it with you, cause I certainly don't know

CWebster (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-10-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
"
62. Don't give me any of this lock-step crap


Everything isn't so swell, and this is a discussion site which looks at complexities and dynamics instead of swooning over heart throb pin ups.

Heaven forbid anyone want to look a little closer and maybe make a unpopular observation into the grey area, rather than seeing everything as black and white. No one should be afraid or bullied by the mob to take politically correct positions which may be obscuring truths. We see enough of that with the "bad guys". And yeah, the reason I would hope that Kerry not continue with his selfish ambition to live out his JFK fantasy is because he is an untalented, unattractive politician with no real appeal, no ability to connect, and no real grasp of priorities. That all adds up to loser. I am sorry, but it is precisely because of worrying about the bad guys."

[Laurab]

20. And here's my response

" Oh, I thought it was a democratic discussion board - my mistake


I personally don't see anyone in the democratic party as a "heart-throb pin up", and it's quite condescending of you to say that. I disagree with your dislike of John Kerry, yes. I have looked "a little closer", and quite frankly, I disagree with just about all of your opinions of JK. In fact, the more I learn about him, the more I like him.

So, everyone who disagrees with your opinion is in "lock-step"? That's interesting. I am in lock-step with myself. I do my own research, and make my own decisions, and I believe they are educated decisions. I also form my own opinions. JK isn't perfect, nor is any other person, except, apparently, you. I happen to believe he would have made a damn good president. I don't vote for "heart throb pin ups". I vote for the person who will make the best decisions for my country.

I also don't believe there is anything positive to be gained by pointlessly bashing every single thing John Kerry, or ______ (fill in the name of the rotten dem of the day), does. Some people seem to enjoy it, with particular dislike for one or the other. I think it's ridiculous, myself.

You are entitled to your opinion of John Kerry, although you certainly seem to go overboard in your dislike for him. I am entitled to mine. I don't need lectures, instructions telling me to believe what you believe, or I'm in "lock-step", or idiotic statements about "heart throbs" from you. Therefore, I'm going to use the "ignore" feature for the very first time since November. I am here to learn positive things, and help in a positive way. Not to read your character assassination of a decent man, or your rash assumptions about someone who happens to like that man."

[whometense]

35. Unimportant but interesting

disconnect there. How can he be a "heartthrob pinup" and "an untalented, unattractive politician with no real appeal" AT THE SAME TIME?????

I am laughing my ass off. :P What a jerk. Maybe a jealous jerk.

[karynnj]

38. The same way he can be the most liberal senator and a flipflop

The level of logic does leave something to be desired. And I bet many of the people saying "untalented, unattactive and no appeal would gladly trade their talent, attractiveness and appeal for 1% of Kerry's.

[ginnyinWI]

17. it doesn't add up

If they are behind Dean, and Dean and Kerry are allies, working for the same cause, they should not feel the need to bash Kerry.

Who does have a desire to bring him down? The Right does, because he has not slunk into the shadows post election. So I'm trying to identify these people based on what they are getting out of this. It doesn't make sense that Deaniacs would need to bash Kerry, especially now that Dean has landed the Chair. So I'd like to suggest that they are NOT Deaniacs, or Clarkies, or Greens at all. Something far more evil...

And we know they are here infiltrating, and proud of themselves for going undetected, so....?

The only other thing that makes sense is that they people are idiots who only want to disrupt--but idiots aren't usually so persistent.


On the question on how to respond, I'd say either ignore, or ask them how they know what they have just said. It works on accusations about what Kerry really did or thought or wanted. Call them out--make them document it! That will de-fang them, for the sake of other innocent minds that might read their posts! Put it as an "how do you know this?" question, or a "so what is the answer to the problem?" kind of question. Empty complaints are not fair, without suggesting solutions, after all.

[merh]

37. Envy is a nasty beast, isn't it!

Dean could never be the man Kerry is. They just can't accept that. They don't realize that if Kerry wanted head of DNC, he would have won that over Dean. Dean will never be able to better Kerry.

[GRLMGC]

11. I know

I've bookmarked this page and I've promised myself never to venture out there again. I'm sick of them.

[angrydemocrat]

16. I hardly ever go out there.

Most of the time if I do it is because another Kerrycrat says they need some back up or want us to take one of the polls. Other than that I stay away from it. The same ones that are making all these remarks about JK will make them about another candidate later. If you was to take names and give it a while some of fruit loop Deaniacs will turn on him to. They need to take a lesson from the other Dean supporters.

[JohnKleeb]

22. after what we worked on together last night, I cant blame you

Anti immigrant assholes who dont know a thing about whats happening there.

[GRLMGC]

33. That post disgusted me to no end

That was the last straw. Fuck Kerry bashers, lefty freepers, and bigots.

[Blue_In_AK]

18. What disturbs me

is that now more than ever Democrats need to present a united front and maybe even open our hearts to the more progressive-leaning Republicans. ** and those around him are very dangerous people and are pursuing policies that are destined to haunt us for decades to come. We just don't have time for all the petty in-fighting and "my-guy's-better-than-yours" bullshit. Kerry, of course, is my personal favorite among the Democratic leaders right now, but I can find things to like about all the others as long as they don't cave and start kissing **'s butt.

[LittleClarkie]

27. Indeed. The primaries are freaking over.

Why can't some of these people let them be over. We don't even freakin' know who exactly is running in 2008. I don't even give a shit who's running in 2008.

I loved the talk at the DNC meeting today. We can't wait til 2008 to get organized. We can't even wait until 2006 to get organized. We gotta do it now.

I woke up to Reid giving his speech. Gads I'm impressed with that man. I wanna send him a letter that simply says "GIVE EM HELL, HARRY!!"

So happy with him as Minority Leader. And I didn't think I would be either. His best quote today was "To be big enough to lead the country, we must first be broad enough to include everyone."

[JohnKleeb]

23. You know I had no idea that we were selling out our values to support

Kerry. I would have felt I wuold be selling out my values to conform to what those purist pricks want which seems to me to be the opposite of what we got now.

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. Read my reply

I couldn't help it.. Smarmy piece of shit asshole. I unloaded both barrels. Shit. By the way, everyone else did a fabulous job in that thread - TayTay, your post rocked.

[blm]

30. good job...I was leaving the one the same time you were.

.

[WildEyedLiberal]

31. Condescending motherfucker

Go check out his reply to our responses.

Thanks, btw.

[sandnsea]

40. About damn time

Where the hell have you been? We've been missing you in here!!! :)

[JohnKleeb]

41. I know, its due to her, you, and some of the other original Kerry support

that I became a defender and later supporter of him.

[sandnsea]

42. I did not read it

I saw the title, ugh, went away. I can't take it. I see those threads and I come back in here!

On edit:

Why did this go here? I didn't mean to post this here. :dunce:

Oh well.

[paulk]

59. ouch!

remind me not to get on your bad side!

:)

"arrogant, self-absorbed sot"


now that's damn near poetry...

[JohnKleeb]

60. She's a Domatrix too

;) Dont worry as long as you dont spout out anti Catholic/anti Kerry shit, you'll be on her good side, its very easy to be on WEL's good side, just respect good people and you will be.

[WildEyedLiberal]

67. Awwww

Thanks Kleeb! :)

[WildEyedLiberal]

66. Thank ya, thank ya!

:D

[blm]

25. I just left a blast of common sense and mirrorholding for him.

I don't trust ANYONE who posts so divisively no matter who they support.

[XanaDUer]

80. I had a feeling this would happen

even if he got the DNC it would not matter. They would keep shoveling the shit on everyone else.

[LittleClarkie]

26. I had to stop myself from responding to a "socialist/anarchist/Democrat"

I'm sorry, but you can't be a Socialist Anarchist Democrat. The dude was railing against the "centrists" in a thread about moderates. I'm so sick of being reframed as a "DLCer". Then he had the gall to deny that's where he was pointing even though he was refering to "the third way" and such. Oh, come on. That's New Dem speak. Disingeneous putz.

And in your same vein, I'm sick of Kerry being labeled "DLC" too. Not to mention the whole "Kerry stole it from Dean in Iowa" as if the party couldn't possibly have picked Kerry over Dean.

I'm sorry, but the RW was selling Dean like they're trying to sell Hillary. She's only the frontrunner, and he was only the frontrunner, before actual votes started to be cast. And if Dean couldn't hack the political fire in the primaries, he was never going to make it in the general election.

Not to mention that there was a tit for tat in the primaries that some Deanies are ignoring. You attack your opponents, and you're going to get attacked back. No fair shouting "no fair" because you can't take what you're dishing out.

The other thing that worries me is the smug factor we're seeing from some out there. I think Dean will be fine as DNC chair, but some of his supporters are so damn paranoid. I'm not going to follow the guy like a sheep. He's not always gonna be right on everything. He's not the freakin' messiah. Sometimes the cult of personality coming from the Deaniacs, the Clarkies, one Gore person I could name, and even the occasional Kerrycrat get's me down. I've been trying to be a little UN out there and unify, but I'm not gonna cowtow either. What do I have to do, start singing Kumbaya?

ie. I feel your pain, bro.

[WildEyedLiberal]

28. Someone last night compared Dean to King Leonidas

The Spartan king whose army of 300 held off a Persian assault of half a million at the Battle of Thermopylae, thus saving Western Civilization.

Ooooookaaaay... I mean I LIKE Dean, but... savior of Western Civilization? :eyes:

[JohnKleeb]

29. a bit of strench for sure

I saw him compared to RFK once and that got me upset.

[angrydemocrat]

32. I Get Sick Of The Kerry Stole Iowa From Dean Crap

The fact of the matter is Dean and his Deaniacs pissed people in Iowa off and they lost for that reason and their dumbass tactics. Example: When they had the Jefferson Jackson Dinner in Des Moines. All the candidates was there with the exception of Clark, Sharpton, and Loserman. They were not there by choice. The Democratic Party of Iowa hosted this Each candidate was to give a 8 minute speech and it couldn't be over 8 minutes because they turned the microphone off. And the candidates couldn't read from a text they had to just speak from the heart. That was the only rules in this event. And it was Mr.Howard Dean that broke the rules none of the others broke those rules.

Each candidate was suppose to be sitting at the dinner table and when they were introduced they were suppose to get up and get on stage and give the speech. Again everyone did this except Mr.Howard Dean. He instead trying to be a show off along with his Deaniacs he brought with him, when he was intoduced they had the spotlight going all over the place trying to find him finally they locate him in the standing in the balcony with the Deaniacs he brought with him.

People was talking and making issue with the fact that 48 busses pulled up in the parking lot for the event and many were empty. They couldn't understand a campaign wasting money like that. They were having problems inside their campaign because the next day Joe Trippi even made the statement "well if you guy's want me to leave I will leave."

And the biggest factor is Iowa voters said they were harrassed by Deaniacs.

Now it was this kind of bullshit along with the fact Kerry was more liked and supported that Mr. Howard Dean lost in Iowa. He didn't steal jack crap.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. I have to agree with you

that Hillary is certainly being pushed by "somebody" as the frontrunner, as seems to be indicated by certain polls that are out there. I just don't see it myself. At least in this household, my husband, who's a staunch democrat, has said he would vote third party rather than vote for her. For myself, I'd probably vote for her if she was our candidate, but I wouldn't be doing it with any sense of confidence. I think she IS who the right wants to see as the nominee because they feel certain they can defeat her, thus they are trying to plant that seed in everybody's consciousness.

[angrydemocrat]

43. I said this in another thread but Hilliary doesn't worry me

And neither does Al Gore. But as far as Hilliary goes she is o.k. as a senator but the fact of the matter to many people look at her as a blowhard. They don't look at her as another Bill. I don't care what people around here say. And these polls well we should all know by now what they are worth. Hell the same polls that have her as the front runner have * job approval ratings over 50% which is pure bullshit. Hell even people that voted for the bastard are regretting it already. There is no way his job approval is over 50% as most are showing. I have seen one poll that showed his rating at 40 something but the rest over 50. So where the hell are the people they call for the polls at the White House and Camp David?

And these polls are the same ones that were wrong during the primaries, the election, and now with these job approval ratings you know they haven't changed they are still wrong. You want to know the facts about Hilliary when your out ask and seewhat people say. Around here they say they say she is o.k. as a senator but that's it. And I have family here from Orando Fla. (That is one reason I havn't been on here as much these past few days) anyhow according to them it is pretty much the same down there. He say's there are people that are pissed over the election but he said there is also plenty of people that are still supporting JK too.

Hell its like JK said about the polls: According to the polls there are 2 million people in this room right now.

[merh]

36. My post in that thread!

What a way to ruin a decent essay.

the Kerry slams make your essay bitter and it loses it value. The writing lacks credibility because of the bitterness.

What a waste!

Why can't folks just get over the primaries. Time to move on and work together! :nopity: What a shame.

[JohnKleeb]

39. working together to them is a republican idea

WEL was telling me last night that some of them said this about loyality.

[merh]

44. They are very immature if they cannot understand that uniting

gives us strength. Take the best players from all the football teams in the US and combine them, what do you get - the best damned football team imaginable, only if they can work as a team and put aside their egos.

Dean and Kerry can do that, why can't the Deaniacs on DU do that?

[JohnKleeb]

45. They're bitter people I guess

[TayTay]

46. I have a feeling that a lot of these folks are

very young. A lot of them haven't been through a great many elections and haven't been around the block a few times in terms of what it takes to win. Pissing people off, claiming the high mantle of impenetrable purity and claiming that the cardinal virtues of loyalty and unity aren't Dem is stupid. Massively stupid. Muture people who are worth arguing with would not say these things.

(Not that there is any thing wrong with people who are young. But, like ice cream, they come in all kinds of flavors, some more desirable than others. The ones who are regulars here are, of course, of the highest caliber and exhibit the highest of intelligences.)

[JI7]

47. sadly they aren't

those few who repeatedly attack him are middle aged.

[JohnKleeb]

48. ha they aint young

They are mostly middle aged and yes thats the sad part because you think that adults who have lived through shit would know better.

[TayTay]

49. There are also folks who get stuck

in a mindset of failure. They would really like to reach a goal someday, but it is an awful lot of work and they might have to 'compromise' their principles and well, that is just too too much. It's more comfortable to stay here in NeverNeverLand, where you can play with the others who never grew up either and keep attacking anyone who challenges you. I have seen that scenario many times as well. (You can be Wendy and realize that Liberal NeverNeverLand is a nice place, but you cannot build a life there. It isn't real. And real life is ever so much more interesting. But that involves the pesky matter of growing up, realizing that you do not occupy the world with a bunch of mental clones and that you actually have to negotiate with others. Sigh! Liberal NeverNeverLand is a great dream, but a lousy reality.)

[JI7]

50. many of them are just hypocrites

who have never got over the primaries.

[JohnKleeb]

51. Do you remember some of them who wanted to do away with the primaries?

and now cry that the primary system is a fraud.

[JI7]

53. hahahah

yeah i remember that. many of them also loved the rules to not criticize the Nominee which where planned on in summer or fall of 2003 when it seemed Dean was going to win easily.

but once Kerry won they started complaining about being persecuted .

it will be interesting to see what Dean does with the Primary system. in fact he has already said he would keep Iowa first and many who complained about Iowa first have stopped complaining ever since Dean said that.

[JohnKleeb]

54. Yep

I know, but we were the minority always, people who liked Kerry and the establishment, I was also a Gephardt defender too, and lemme tell you, that was an interesting experience :), we need a Gephardt group too I think. Oh I didnt know Dean said he would keep Iowa first. Well now you know, they'll either buy everything Dean says or if he goes against them, they'll claim that Kerry bought him off since Kerry is a big and powerful man who is the causes of all their agonies such as not getting a date.

[angrydemocrat]

52. They Might As Well Get Off Their High Horse Over The Issue

Because no matter how much they scream and act like fools it isn't going to change the fact that Kerry and Dean will be working together on issues that won't always meet their approval. Dean will be working with Reid, and all the others as well. That is his job now. So the sooner they wake up and smell the coffee the better off they will be. All they are doing now is making total asses out of themselves.

And he is the party chair now he isn't running in 2008 for president. So get the hell over it. And hell they don't have to say that Kerry is there man but they need to wake up and realize Kerry isn't going anywhere either. Hell wether they want him for president or not they better be glad he is still one of the democrat senators fighting the * agenda. Hell I don't support Hilliary for president and I don't agree with her on a lot of things but hell I look at it this way she is o.k. as a senator and she is helping fight the * agenda.

The only one it is truly hard not to bash is Loserman. Hell he might as well be a republican. He has voted against the democrats on everything so far.

[TayTay]

55. True, but Loserman has a nice base in CT

His favorabilities are very high. The best thing about that is that he would be a vote for the Democratic leadership if the Dems ever take back the Senate. (Which is doable by 2008. In 2008, there will be waaaay more Rethugs running than Dems. We could knock off the Senate by then.)

I agree with you. How much plainer can it be? We, as Dems, are in no position to be flicking people away. We need every Dem vote we can get and unity is of paramount importance right now. The most puzzling thing is how Kerry is still being denied credit for the positive and down-the-line liberal votes he has cast so far in the 109th (Weasel) Congress. He voted against Condi and conducted some really tough quesitoning in Committee on her. (That was great!) He did cast a vote against Torture Boy. And he cast down the line votes against that awful 'Silence the Voices of the People' legal destructive legislation this week.

Kerry actually cast 4 good votes on this, 3 on amendments and one on the rollcall. This thuggish legislation can be used as a weapon against the Rethugs, but the case has to be built. Anybody see some of Conyers hearings on the Medical lawsuit mini-limits on C-Span. That is some powerful stuff. We have to get that out there and we need all Dem hands on deck in order to do it.

[paulk]

56. but...but...but....

Kerry's not a liberal - he's a DLC Republican-lite beltway insider warmonger party hack! How dare he cast those votes!!


:)

[JohnKleeb]

58. KERRY IS THE DARLING OF THE CORPORATIONS

Well dude youre the darling of the voices coming out of your ass :).

[angrydemocrat]

57. I Agree

Kerry is one of only a slim few that have voted No on all:

1)Condi (twice)
2)Torture Boy
3)That Phony Ass Torte Reform Bill S.5
4)Foreign Operation Financing Sill H.R.4818
5)Raise Debt Limit

[TayTay]

61. Sigh! I'm liberally pure

I want a Senator like that. (Oop, I have two like that. Eat your hearts out. Sorry, didn't mean to brag. I am very lucky to have two good and solid Dem Senators. A blessing from the Higher Powers, no doubt.)

Really, this is so unfair. But I don't actually think Kerry cares. I sense a real desire to just go out there and do his thing and let the chips fall where they may. He has to be true to himself, vote the way his head, heart and conscience tell him to and that's that. If people like it, fine, if not, well so what. It's his vote and the people of MA like what he is doing. Se there!

[angrydemocrat]

64. LOL RUB IT IN!!

I have two of the shittiest senators there ever was. (But you can have them. Sorry, don't mean to be so genorous. I am screwed to have to neocon, shit for brains, greedy ass, sorry ass, solid repuke senators. The aftermath from a major volcanic eruption below, no doubt.)

Now, this is truly unfair. I know they don't care for anyone but themselves. The only desire they got is to screw over the everyday worker and poor person regardless of what part of foothills they may be from. They are only true to themselves, vote for the wealthy and connected, and that's that. If people like it great, if not, well fuck you. It's their votes and as long as the dumbass hillbillies like what we do, we will continue to say screw you. Se there!

[Withywindle]

62. That exclusive club...

...is pretty damn small!

It's amazing the convolutions some of them go through to avoid giving him credit for that. It's "campaigning," they say. No, it's being a kickass Senator, which is his goddamn job!

It'll be interesting to see what happens the first time (and the second and the third time) Dean does something they don't like, it really will.

[angrydemocrat]

68. I get sick of these damn purist

The best they can come up with is "he stole Iwoa", "he's bushlite", or "he only say's what he does and vote's the way he does because he is campaigning". Which is a pure bullshit. But hell I guess you couldn't expect nothing useful or intelligent to come out of a bunch of shit for brains purist asswipes!

[elshiva]

63. First thing I am not reading any hating on Kerry.

Second, I applaud him on his voting record 98% of the time (still don't agree with the vote of IWR, but I still need to understand his reasoning).

Third, I do not like how some who claim to be Deaniacs or Goristas are hating on a great Dem like Kerry esp. when Dean and Gore are totally buddies of Kerry (all endorsed him wholeheartedly as good intelligent diplomatic voice, although they critized him for his initial position on IWR).

[angrydemocrat]

65. This Is True

But also had Dean or Gore been in Kerry position and had to cast a vote they very well may have done the same thing Kerry did with what imformation Congress was given on that situation. It is easy to criticize others when you are not in that position yourself. And that shit pissed me off when they done it. And Mr Gore wasn't the perfect damn senator himself trust me I live in the state he was the senator of. He made mistakes as well. So he pissed me off more than Dean because he knew what it was to be in a hard position like that that. And same applies to all the armchair quarterbacks that sit back and judge him over that vote. Hell they are lucky there dumb asses are able to sit behind a computer screen much less come close to having the knowledge, courage, and dignitiy Kerry has much less ever be able to cast a vote in the Senate.

[elshiva]

69. I've read some of what Kerry said

about the IWR he had a lot of reservations about that. He hoped that Dubya would do the inspections and all. Course this is where lefty freepers and Bartcop (can't go there anymore, sigh) descend and say, "Well, didn't Kerry have the sense to know that Dubya is a liar." (The reason why I do not go to Bartcop anymore is I can't stand his picture of JK and JE in pink Tutus, because of their pro-IWR vote.)
Well, I don't go there. At that time I think he was hoping for Dubya's better nature to kick in. A lot of people thought that Dubya wouldn't be that bad (including me, really, so maybe I would have voted that way, too? dunno) and would do the proper steps. I think we (JK inc.) learned that Dubya could be that bad and are a little more careful.

Of course Gore made mistakes and every Senator makes mistakes. That's why I still love both my MD Senators even though they voted for Rice with A LOT of reservations and questionings on Sarbanes' (Senior Dem) part. Everyone makes mistakes. They did vote against Gonzalez which is great because I think he is more at fault for the tortures (specific problems).

Greetings to you angrydemocrat, down there in the Volunteer State. Do ya still like Gore? Well, I do.

[angrydemocrat]

71. Yes

I have never had anything against Gore other than he acts like a whiner at times. And he does do that. But I was just pointing out that Mr. Gore has been in the Senate and made plenty of mistakes himself that everyone didn't agree with but he was in a position he did what he felt was he had to just like Kerry. So he of all people should know better than to trash another Democratic Senator the way he did Kerry over that vote. And it royally pissed me off when he he said that shit about my hero. But I don't dislike the man. But I have always said he was a whiner even when he was senator. As you seen he sure couldn't handle losing and he sure don't have the nerves of steel that Kerry has.


*Edit to say*: I hate the great volunteer state and me and my family are out of here before long. Wouldn't suggest this place to anyone!

[JohnKleeb]

72. Gore I read was quite moderate when he was a senator

and a cofounder of the boogeyman but the things that I think are annoying you about the former vice president is the same thing many of the purer than thou love about him. I like Gore good but I really like Kerry, he just has the most amazing life and has done so much, sigh and yes I like Kerry a hell of lot more than Clinton too.

[angrydemocrat]

75. He was a moderate

at times even a little on the conservative side. As I said in my other post I like Gore but he was a whiner at times. And he has had a amazing life but the one I find more interesting than him is his father. You ought to read up on him. Al did a lot of good things for Tennessee he was the congressman in 1976 (I think that date is right) and he became senator in 1984. But you can go look at his records and he was a far cry from liberal as many make him out to be. And as I said above had he been in the Senate looking at the same thing Kerry was chances are he would have voted the same way Kerry did. And for him to run his mouth about Kerry and him having been in the same position himself in the past was utterly ridiculous. It reminded a lot of people around here of one of his whiny days.

But look at his voting record and compare it to Kerry's and you will see what I mean about had he been on that senate floor he would have done the same. We will never know it to be a fact but the records can tell you a lot. And if Kerry votes for anything that may lead to using military force you can pretty much bet money Gore being the more moderate/conservative democrat would have done the same. Now if we were talking about another liberal like Kennedy or whoever you could say that assumption was dead wrong but as i said Gore is no liberal. So you see I am not saying there is anything bad about Gore or I don't like him. But I am merely saying he is a whiner and actions speak sometimes speak for themselves. But Gore as he has always done he will be a whiner one minute and he is fine the next, another words he gets over it.

[JohnKleeb]

76. Yes you got your dates right and I agree

Oh definely, Gore was one of a handful of Democrats to vote for the Gulf War Resolution in 1990 and he ran as a moderate in teh 1988 primaries. Kerry is more like Kennedy than anyone I think, now is he loud about it? no, I guess I sort of identify with Kerry in a way, I am not a loud and vocal liberal, I mean, people know what I stand for and what I believe in but its not like they know that I am a staunch liberal.

[whometense]

73. You can add

the "Defense of Marriage" act to that list too. :-)

[JohnKleeb]

74. I thought that happened in '96

that bushlite Kerry voted against it, how dare him! hes a bushlite, surely he'd be for it :D. Gotta love Kerry for voting against that garbage.

[merh]

70. I agree with you for the most part. They do need to come to

grips with the fact that Dean must work with all leaders of the party and he will have to compromise on some issues.

I am not fond of Hillary, I see her as a politician, not a statesperson. She is too much of a centralist for me and she has been kissing the repugs arses way too much for me. I also am very disappointed in Obama. He has failed on 3 vital votes of the 4 that have come before him: the Ohio certification; Condi; and class action litigations. Hell, with his record to date, I am surprised that he voted against Gonzales.
Right now in my book, he is as bad as Loserman.

[elshiva]

77. Whenever anyone gets down on Obama,

I just remember that crazed homophobe Keyes (a Marylander, sad to say) could have been in his place and then I thank God.

[merh]

78. I am glad Keyes isn't the one who won, but that does not excuse

obama's failed pathetic record to date. It is as if Keyes did win.

[New Earth]

79. i'm sick of it tooo!!!

not in the thread you are referring to, but any of them!!! some people have no idea how to let go of grudges, and i think it is very unhealthy - especially when it is someone who is on your side.

i believe there was fraud just as much or even more as the next person in 2004 elecction forum, but some of them over there need to get the FUCK over shit man, seriously.

[Pirate Smile]

81. I agree. I just read that thread. What a dumbass post. What in the

world is the point of worrying who will run in 2008. Focus on 2006.

I missed this whole thing on Friday, I guess. I was just reading through it because you bumped it back up to the top.

I just can't believe the people still fighting the damn Primaries. Move the F#$k on!!!.

[saracat]

82. I read that and chose not to reply. That poster is beyond reasoning with.

I just don't understand why to support Dean you have to hate Kerry.I also don't understand those that say to support Kerry you have to be blindly supportive of the Dems.As Bill Maher says,"I have the ability to hold more than one thought in my mind at once".
Some of these people sound like the koolaid drinking repukes they criticize!