MSNBC has a 2008 race evaluation of candidates

[karynnj]

Overall, it is good for Kerry.

Kerry, Gore, Hillary, Obama, and Bayh are listed as heavyweights. (Edwards as a welterweight - all other Democratic candidates are lightweight or welterweight)

The Kerry cons are all ones that are easily disputed and don't seem worse than anyone else's and less bad than most
:
- That Republicans mocked the Alito filibuster from Davos (Easily converted to a principled action and plus - especially given his record)

- That the $87 billion comment could still hurt - all the corrupt spending and the runaway deficit show he was right on BOTH votes (he has done better on explaining it) The other way of looking at it is that if being caught saying something in an exploitable manner is the worst thing Kerry did in 2004, he was pretty darn good.

- lack of charisma and charm - Easy, because it's NOT true. That he was charismatic has been noted in each and every article on appearances since 2004. (Also, only Obama of the heavyweights is considered charismatic.)

- Voters don't know where he is on Iraq - uhmmm I don't think so, even if MSNBC wishes it were so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12304248/



The pluses were good - and would be better if Iraq, as an issue were moved over which it should be.

[blm]

1. If MSNBC would REPORT Kerry's work on Iraq the voters would KNOW clearly

that he has been putting up serious withdrawal plans for a year now.

[karynnj]

2. I think that did get out - because they chose to mock

the fact that he did put out plans and lost in the Senate. It's also clear that Kerry has been very specific on his plans on EVERYTHING. The positions he had in 2004 are his current positions in some cases enhanced.

I wonder, if the Senate flips, how Kerry will be treated. The Democrats will have more control, but Reid is not Kerry friendly. If Hillary is really fading, will Bayh be given something high profile.

[wisteria]

7. I hope Reid is gone soon. Ineffective and obviously plays favorites.

Bayh? I don't get the appeal there. Gore? Is he really going to run? Obama? IMO, he is crazy to try and run this time. He should be a light weight, but because he is the flavor of the month, he is given top billing.

[SouthernBelle82]

11. Wasn't he one of the

first if not the first to have a plan? If I'm remembering correctly Kerry was the first senator to seriously have a plan to get out of Iraq. I remember Dean one time going to talk about it on "Hardball" but Matthews cut him off before he could and Cindy Sheehan even supports that plan.

[blm]

12. Yes - end of October last year. Submitted in November. Then a few days

later Murtha came out against the war, and Kerry's withdrawal plan was kept mostly out of the news cycle.

He submitted another last April dealing specifically with the reality of Civil War - it was tweaked again for the June Kerry-Feingold bill vote.

[karynnj]

13. He had a plan even in Sept 2004

That plan was not called a withdrawal plan - but he specifically wanted to engage in high powered diplomacy, jumpstart the training of troops (possibly using other countries), no permanent bases etc and the hope was some troops home at the end of 2005.

There was a July 2005 plan - after Bush spoke. Then the major Oct 2005 one - that looked a lot like the current one but was more hopeful. Then the April - June one.

[JI7]

16. hey SouthernBelle, welcome to this forum

[beachmom]

3. Thanks, Karynnj. Actually a nice pic of JK.

And you're right -- almost all the negatives are actually bogus charges. So being at a World Economic Summit is wrong for JK but not for John McCain?

And he's #1 on Iraq. Nobody is talking with the authority he is on that issue.

[karynnj]

5. That is a very charming picture of a charismatic Senator

easily the best photo of the group. I read through all the other descriptions. If it is seen that he is the very best on Iraq NOW and he is clear on issues when you actually listen to him, he has the most positives and the least negatives.

Gore is the only one close. The difference in the Gore race and the Kerry race is stupid - Bush was an inexperienced Governor with a "past" in 2000 and a wartime President in 2004. Gore would need to develop a platform (beyond global warming) to run.

They really did a job on Hillary and made Bayh less attractive to me. Obama is a wild card, but I think he is just too junior given the problems. Imagine him vs Kerry in a debate - both are well spoken, but I doubt there is an issue Kerry has developed a well thoughtout solution to. That depth is likely not there yet for Obama.

[ProSense]

14. Agree!

Also, great photo!

[wisteria]

4. I think there is a conspiracy going against giving Kerry & Dem's credit

where credit is due.
Watching CNN last night, Klein was on, and he states that the Dem's are winning on the Iraq issues without offering up any ideas of there own.

Tell me, what else can we do to get the word out? The MSM is IMO, purposely not crediting Kerry and other Dem's purposely. The media can't really be that stupid as to not of heard of any Dem plans.
Funny how they remember the snark though. No problem with memory there.

[ginnyinWI]

6. I suppose if I were a TV pundit,

I'd be biased against JK merely because he's not a "new face" and therefore harder to cover. We all know how lazy most of them are. People like Tweety want to be able to just walk into the studio and throw out some questions about the new guy--the last thing they need is someone that the public already is familiar with. So they are eager to dismiss the "old faces" and say that the public wants somebody new. No, I don't think so--it's they who want the new faces, not us.

[karynnj]

8. Although given the lack of real coverage in 2004,

they could cover the 'real Kerry' we all see. He actually has a colorful enough life that they could have fun. Of course that would mean admitting they didn't do a good job in 2004.

In reality, only Obama and Bayh are new faces of the heavy weights. Gore and Hillary are older faces than Kerry.

[whometense]

9. I agree with your theory -

with the exception of Hillary.

There are a number of pundits who are pushing her candidacy (Tweety in the forefront) because they salivate at the idea of another round of Clinton-bashing. I really believe this is true.

Kerry makes bad tv for these weasels because he doesn't spin and he doesn't lie and he doesn't suck up.

[MBS]

10. you nailed it! n/t

[ginnyinWI]

15. true, Hillary is still a mostly untapped resource for them. n/t