OT: Obama

[Inuca]

I am curious what you people think. He is all over the place these last days, I lost count on how many places I saw or heard him, or heard he will be on. I know he has a new book, but this seems overkill JUST for a book. Any comments or thoughts?

[JI7]

1. it's expected, he gets a lot of hype because of the book

and all the signings and parties being held to promote it. i'm not sure if it will last though. he seems smart enough to know what is happening now will not be the same attention he gets if he really ran. at least his wife seems to get it. he will be put on the spot and have to deal awith some serious questions. his time on the foreign relations committee shows he isn't so up there yet in terms of policy knowledge and experience. but his wanting to be on that committee shows he is interested in getting some of that if/when he decides to run.

remember how Mark Warner got a lot of attention after Kaine's victory in Virginia ? and we saw where that went.

he has a lot of potential for sure. when and how he runs plus whatever he decides to learn will make a difference in how he will do.

[Inuca]

3. I do hope that...

... he will not make the mistake and run this time around. I like him a lot, almost instinctively. He probably/hopefully has the common sense (he definitely hs the intelligence) not to let all the hype get to his head. It would be such a pity and such a waste. Will see.... I just can't get rid of that nagging feeling that it is too much just to promote a book...

[blm]

2. MY question for media: How do you feel about ignoring 1997's The New War

a book by John Kerry that forewarned about the growing global terror networks?

How do you feel about that, now?

Do you feel you made a huge mistake ignoring the growing terror problem while you were hosting the antiClinton witchhunters nonstop for 8 years?

[wisteria]

28. Good point, but the media is not to be trusted with doing the right thing,

they are for sensationalism and money.

[Mass]

29. You cant blame the media for all - The campaign dropped the book

after one negative ad, rather than supporting it strongly.

If the campaign is not ready to stand behind the candidate record, dont expect the media to do so.

The DC strategists tried to describe Kerry as a blank slate and ignore his record. This was stupid, but these are probably the same who support Obama because they think he is a blank slate (ignoring that he has a record as an Illinois Senator).

[blm]

33. Kerry wasn't running in 1997 - media IGNORED the book in 97, 98, 99, 2000

when it could have made a greater DIFFERENCE in the awareness level of this country for the serious ISSUE of global terrorism/

Point being that Obama's book gets wide coverage, yet a book that could SERIOUSLY alter the course of this country received NO scrutiny, whatsoever, from the media.

[whometense]

4. On Countdown tonight.

And Shields and Brooks were both gushing over him on NewsHour.

This article perfectly sums up my feelings about Obama at the present time.

[ProSense]

7. I think

Barack Obama gave a terrific speech at the convention. This phenomenon reminds me of Colin Powell, granted he's a Republican and Obama is a much better speaker. There was a period when the media was gushing over Colin Powell: He speaks so well; he's so well-spoken! Did they expect Powell to sound like a bumbling idiot? The media push was that if he ran, he would win hand's down (sort of like the polling on McCain). It was BS then, and it's BS now, and not because Powell took those phony photos to the UN either.

There are a lot of well-spoken people and wonderful speakers, and Obama is one of them, but being president is not about how well-spoken one comes across. Obama is considered a rising star in the Democratic Party, that doesn't translate to experience, which he is sorely lacking. Mark Warner, who was a governor, didn't have the experience, IMO, and Barack doesn't either.

[nam78_two]

5. I find him unimpressive

He is good-looking and gives good speeches but beyond that I don't see a reason to like the guy....:shrug:

He ran unopposed and he never takes a controversial stance on anything..I don't dislike him, but I don't see a reason to rave about him the way many in the media do.

[sandnsea]

6. He'll be President some day

No doubt about that. I think he might be considering 2008. It's sort of true what Durbin said, all sitting in the Senate does is gives them a thousand more votes to pick apart. I like him a lot lot, but I'm still hearing too much centrist compromising bullshit to get excited about an actual Obama Presidency. JK needs to sit him down for some BCCI schooling.

[Firespirit]

8. I would support Obama on the second slot

He doesn't bring much foreign policy experience, or much experience of any kind for that matter, but it would be a good tactical move, I think, for him to be on the VP slot behind someone with impeccable credentials like Kerry. Obama's highly ambitious, yes, and more conservative than I am on many issues, but I get a sense of honesty from him that I don't get from, say, Hillary. There's no sleaze and dodginess associated with Obama. I think that is a large part of his popularity, the feel that he is a straight-up public servant with the best interests of the country at heart. (That bodes well for Kerry as well; it's a matter of getting that fact out there.)

That administration could work. Kerry, with the experience and resolve to set things to rights, would be a popular president who does what's necessary and what's right (and in my fantasy, he keeps Unitary Executive powers and uses them to quickly undo the worst crap of the Bushies, provoking headaches and high blood pressure among our elephantine "friends"). Kerry is the "pillar of strength." Obama would be the savvy young "sidekick," a figure personifying the promise of younger America. They complement each other well. Honestly, I am not too concerned about the foreign policy creds of a potential Kerry VP, because I'd rather Kerry himself handled such things anyway. He has enough experience and enough good ideas for both slots on the ticket. As I see it, the VP doesn't need to be a watered-down version of the president when the president offers so much himself. The VP needs to offer something different.

Of course this is all a gross oversimplification. Kerry is far more folksy than people give him credit for, and that would come out in 2007 and later in an administration. And Obama would get the policy experience from the person who knew best of all how to do things.

[TayTay]

9. Sen Obama is just so new to the national stage

I am afraid that he would get rolled by the same forces that basically rolled Bill Clinton. I saw sen. Obama speak and he was truly great. I like him, but he is only two years removed from the Illinois Senate and I don't think he is yet qualified to be President.

I like the idea of him being a vp. That would give him the experience he needs.

[whometense]

10. I was thinking about this "we need a fresh face" garbage,

and about what you said on another thread about everyone has baggage.

I think people imagine that this "fresh face" will arrive free of baggage. Where, really, a fresh face only has unsearched baggage.

People like Kerry (and Gore as well) - their baggage has been thoroughly searched, x-rayed, dog-sniffed, and every other method know to man.

You can't say the same about Hillary - Bill's baggage has been through the wringer, but they've barely glanced at hers yet.

[TayTay]

13. She has baggage

And she is untested nationally on her own terms. It is true that she ran with her husband in '92 and offered the nation a 'two for one' deal. That cuts a lot of ways. If she is offering herself up as an experienced person based on being First Lady, then she gets that baggage of that Admin as well. Why didn't health care reform pass? Why did Clinton basically lose Congress in '94 and become unable to get it back? What part did Hillary play in that? Why didn't Clinton build a lasting legacy that would exist longer than Jan 20, 2001? What did he do that is still around today?

I don't think the Clinton's are all that good at politics. I think they have some good pr and a lot of name recongition. I remember when Bill Clinton was being criticized as long-winded and selfish. I remember when Hillary won that NY Senate seat in '00, but not by much and she had a weak opponent. (Didn't Kerry '04 numbers in upstate NY top her numbers in '00?)

There was a lot that wasn't so good in the Clinton years. If she wants to have a Restoration, then she is going to have to live with the bad stuff. The Dick Morris stuff. The FileGate and TravelGate stuff. She is going to have to answer why nothing lasting came out of those years. You can't have one without the other.

[whometense]

15. I agree completely.

I believe that one of the reasons Chris Matthews is so gung-ho about her potential candidacy is that he has mountains of unused oppo research stashed in reserve and burning a hole in his pocket. He can't wait to have a chance to expose it.

[MBS]

31. wonderful photo! and good points

There's something sick about the various Talking Heads ( Brooks, Shields, the usual suspects) opining that now is the time for Obama to run, "before he has a voting record." That just epitomizes the sick and childish nature of what currently passes for political strategy-thinking these days. It just amazes me that folks like these earn six figures, or more, to spew such nonsense. It's time for the media, the party, and the electorate to GROW UP.

Especially after the last six years, we desperately need someone who is READY to be president. We can't afford to have someone learn on the job (remember Clinton's early mistakes??); we DON"T HAVE THE TIME.
John Kerry could have walked into the White House 2 years ago, and gotten right to work. But by 2009, he'll be able to move in and make things happen before the boxes are even unpacked.

We need John Kerry. We need someone who's been through the wringer, and not only survived, but grown from the experience, and continues to learn and to grow. Someone who has been vetted and swiftboated every which way, and who has emerged, fresh and renewed, from the experience, more determined than ever to move our country forward. Someone who has endured the trials, the anger, the loneliness,the lies, and the backbiting that comes with life in politics, and retains the freshness, the openness and energy to delight in those children , peering through the glass.

The kids get it. Soon the adults, once they decide to become adults, will, too.

RUN JOHN RUN.

[Inuca]

20. Well put

You summarized some of my thoughts on this very well. The reason I like him, in addition to the famous speech and his obvious intelligence, and yes, also the fact that he is black and I like to see him get all this attention, is the sense of earnestness and genuine good will that I get from him. Of course I may be completely wrong.... He seems to have the potential to be a true "uniter", much as this word has been debased. A VP slot would be very interesting (next to JK of course), but would also give raise once again to all the BS about senators not winning...

[demdiva]

38. I agree completely

I've been saying for some time now that my ideal 2008 ticket would be Kerry/Obama. In addition to all the great points you made, that it's important to remember that Obama could induce some SERIOUS turnout among disenfranchised voters.

[Mass]

11. I like him - I just dislike the media buzz.

I think he will certainly be a serious candidate for president at some point and may be a good VP candidate this time around, but he is too inexperienced at this point for my taste.

This morning, there was an article which said that Durbin was pushing him. However, the article seemed to be pushing him in order to counter Edwards in Iowa. I did not know what to make of that.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/104064,4_1_JO20_DURBIN_S1.article

...

Durbin explained why he is urging Obama to run during a Tuesday afternoon meeting with the Herald News editorial board.


The possible candidates for '08 Democratic nomination include New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, former Vice President Al Gore and 2004 presidential hopeful John Kerry and his running mate, John Edwards. Durbin said Edwards is the front-runner in polls in Iowa, where the nominating process starts, and Clinton is second.

"If Barack comes in, it throws everything up in the air and I think it could be a much different outcome in that state," Durbin said.

[ProSense]

12. With all the

hoopla about who is campaigning and raising money for Democratic candidates, why hasn't Obama been doing this?

[Mass]

14. He has - May be less than Kerry or Clark, but he has.

He will be in Boston sometimes soon to support Patrick Deval. He has been in the South.

I do not think he has been using the Internet to raise money though,

[ProSense]

23. That's good to know!

More fundraising on his part would have certainly helped, but who knows, there may be a reason his activities have been limited.

[globalvillage]

17. Obama did an event in Pittsburgh for Casey.

I think he's probably doing his share of campaign appearances.
I think either he or Clark would be a good VP pick. They're both working hard for '06.

[Inuca]

21. Curious and

very interesting... High politics is too much for poor little me... Never liked Edwards and was disappointed with him being chosen for the VP slot... So does the quote mean that Durbin just wants to rearrange the odds in Iowa and wants Obama there as a kind of sacrificial lamb(that's how I read it), or that he is truly interested in his candidacy?

[jillan]

16. Obama would be the perfect

VP for Kerry.

Think about that team.... they couldn't lose.

I like Obama. I don't agree with him all of the time but this guy will be in the WH one day.
After being Kerry's VP for 8 years, Obama can move easily into the Presidency. Kerry will get this country (and world) back to where it once was, and Obama can keep things going.

I've got it all figured out. No need for any more Presidential campaigns.

[Inuca]

22. Yes

you & me, both :-). I started daydreaming about such a ticket right after black tuesday two years ago. That's why I feel so uncomfortable about the idea of Obama running on his own in 2 years. It may be bad for him, bad for JK, and possibly bad for the country, because I do not think his chances of winning are that good, sadly his race would definitely play a role, especially since objectively speaking he IS still very light weight. I think he would be a great VP choice for almost anybody, and the hopefully 8 years will give him the "weight" and experience he needs. He is still very young (45 he said yesterday on Olberman).

[JanusAscending]

24. NOW JUST HOLD ON........

I thought of it first.....way back sometime this Spring!! I'm glad you're all jumping on the bandwagon tho!!! As I said back then, "this is a can't lose team"!!!:toast: :bounce: :bounce: :applause: Love ya'll !!, DC ......... P.S. (where is the JK BD card for the Eastcoast?)

[demdiva]

39. No No ME ... I was first!!!!!! Just kidding

[JanusAscending]

41. WELL.......(Jack Benny pause) (and yes I'm still 39 too)!

I consider my self in good company. See, I sometimes "know" things long before other wise people finally catch on. But to those LATE, better than NEVER!!???:toast:

[demdiva]

48. Absolutely

and I'm happy to share the credit for this one ...the more supporters the better!

[_dynamicdems]

18. Recently, I was in Barnes & Noble and there was Obama everywhere.

His book was prominently displayed and he was on the cover of "Men" magazine.

He's the new flavor and is very popular right now. He's also very smart but a little on the cautious side; no doubt being careful politically because he knows he's got a long career ahead of him and doesn't want to get typecast this early in the game.

IMO, he's too smart to run for President in 2008. The fastest way to the White House for Senator Obama is through the Vice Presidency.

[ginnyinWI]

19. I'm afraid I'm spoiled, after Kerry...

If it weren't for JK, I'd be more interested in Obama. Nice, sensible, smart--but a bit humorless and stuffy. A bit of the ol' Deer-in-the-Headlights. He was on Ed Schultz and at the end asked Ed who he thought would win the Series--and then he asked Keith O. the same thing. Looks contrived. I suppose he'll get better with experience. What he has going for him is his height and his nice resonant voice. But we've already got a Senator with those attributes who is also far more experienced and media savvy.

[karynnj]

26. In some of your comments, Obama sounds like Kerry

But, like Kerry, I think it may be seriousness and respect for the audience that gives the appearance of humorlessness and stuffiness. Most other politicians use humor to avoid giving straight answers.
I like the calmness, maturity, and sense of honesty, I see when he answers.

That he refused to get defensive on the run question was great - and honest. It has to be thrilling for anyone to be singled out as he is as a possible candidate for President. To completely rule out a run would be stupid. The media is looking for an anti-Hillary, If Gore doesn't run, other than Kerry who is there?

Edwards does not have a better resume - 2 extra years in the Senate doesn't outweigh Obama's state Senate experience. That he was a University of Chicago law school professor and (I think) civil rights lawyer, is better than a trial lawyer. His wife, a high powered lawyer herself, lives in Chicago with their 2 kids, is great in the few interviews I saw.

Bayh has more experience, but near zero name recognition. He however seems positioned where Hillary is or to her right. If Obama doesn't "take", he might be the next one pushed by the media as a new face.

I'm surprised that Bill Clinton gave the big policy speech he gave last week - shouldn't that be Hillary's role? A year before people are thinking seriously about the primaries, it seems weird that they are trying to make Clinton appear to be the leader of the party - when as the last Democratic President he already has some claim to that. Making Bill, not Hillary, the vision person makes her run look like a third Clinton run. The question is whether people will accept that.

[demdiva]

40. yes he was a law school prof / civil rights lawyer and activist

before being elected to the State Senate in Illinois.

[Dr Ron]

25. How much does experience matter?

I think most here would agree that Kerry has most of Obama's strong points plus experience. In a primary vote between Kerry and Obama, there won't be any difficulty deciding.

Most here would agree that Kerry's experience is important in getting us out of the mess the Republicans have left.

But how important is experience compared to other differences between candidates?

What if by the time you can vote all but two have been knocked out of the race and you must choose between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama? Clinton wins one experience, but in light of HillaryCare, her support of the war, and the liklihood she'd quickly compromise principles for political gain, I'd lean towards Obama in this case despite lack of experience.

[Inuca]

30. Why?

Why exactly would Hillary win on experience when compared with Obama? The few extra years in the Senate? The experience as Bill's wife? How much of that is HER experience? Just wondering.... I hope it does not come to that, and though I am not intensely anti-Hillary in a face to face between her and Obama, there would be no doubt in my mind. The personal potential with him seems much higher. And of course, that's part of the problem, the "potential".

[Dr Ron]

32. Eight years in the White House

While it wouldn't mean much for a typical first lady, Hillary was quite involved in government while Bill was there. Considering how little experielnce Obama has, this puts her will ahead of him if we were really going ot choose purely based upon experience.

[beachmom]

34. I agree with Dr. Ron here. Hillary was practically a co-president

She was very involved, and I'm sure learned a lot. I think I remember reading at the time that she was very good at "wrapping up" a meeting and getting Bill to make decisions. That makes me think she was involved with all of the important decisions of his presidency.

My problem with Hillary has never been her qualifications -- of all the people mentioned in '08, she comes in 3rd for me behind Kerry and Gore in terms of experience. I just think that she has no moral core and will compromise our values away one by one. I'm not sure she will be able to or want to end the Iraq War. What is her vision to win the war on terror other than mimicing Bush?

Obama is wet behind the ears, and a LOT of people not that into politics feel this way. What disqualifies Edwards for me, disqualifies Obama, too.

I just finished the Time magazine with him on the cover -- he also lacks a vision. He's not willing to stand up for difficult things. He's too interested in making friends with right wingers, not seeming to understand that they ONLY go for blood.

I'm a little sore with Obama at the moment. I adore him, but am madder than hell that he's considering entering this race and making me have to choose that way. Obviously, Kerry is my #1 choice, but I just assumed Obama, being of a different generation, would be a '12 or '16 candidate. Maybe he'll not end up running, but WILL end up selling a lot of his books (I own his first book, but won't buy the second one -- not enough time with all the other things I want to read first). That would be the best outcome. And, yeah, we all remember who gave him the opportunity to become a star on prime time in the first place.

[fedupinBushcountry]

35. I agree

On Obama, I have watched him closely in the Senate, and I am sorry to say I have not been impressed. I see him listening to the insiders on both sides of the aisle. I watched him many times wait to make his vote, and sort of lost that he couldn't find that one person who would tell him which way to vote.

Way to inexperienced IMO.

[TayTay]

36. I think he has a lot of potential

But he is only two years out from the State Senate in Illinois. He doesn't, yet, pass the Commander in Chief test with me. I think he would make a decent VP candidate. He is bright, capable, personable and so forth, so that would be a good move for him.

I don't dislike Sen. Obama, I just don't think he's ready yet. However, he does roil the playing field. It's interesting to see how he is seen as the candidate of the left and one that can directly challenge Sen. Clinton for the center. Hmmmm, maybe that's not such a bad thing. Maybe it's not such a bad thing to let the media favorites duke it out in the media. Maybe that allows other people to go in, do their jobs and line up real support.

[wisteria]

27. I hope his ergo doesn't get in the way of common sense. n/t

[JanusAscending]

42. ???Hope his ego doesn't get in the way of his

"ergo" What's an ergo Mommy? (kidding) I think I know what you meant!;-)

[wisteria]

45. LOL, I noticed it after it was to late to edit. n/t

[JanusAscending]

46. Gotta love ya!

Some nights my brain can't keep up with my fingers, and at other times it's just the opposite. Lord knows what I'd put on these boards if it weren't for spell check, and multiple proof readings!!:silly: :hi:

[whometense]

37. Interesting take on Obama as

presidential candidate here: http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=42148

[karynnj]

43. He really doesn't get this, does he.

"When asked how best to handle tough attacks, such as those that helped bring down Mr. Kerry in 2004, Mr. Obama responds, "the truth. You respond swiftly and forcefully with the truth … The nice thing about the truth is that it's subject to confirmation … And keep on hammering away."

Kerry had the truth and he did respond swiftly with it.

[wisteria]

44. The problem was the media never confirmed the truth until it didn't

matter any more.

[jillan]

47. Went to see him Mon. at a gotv rally. He was very

Okay...that's the best I can say.

He did draw a big crowd for a Monday morning, well over 1000 people there. He only spoke for about 20 minutes.

He also did a $35 per person fund raiser that evening in Phx.
I chose the rally because I was more interested in what the local candidates had to say than just Obama. But I was curious. I still say he is the perfect VP candidate.