OT: Message on church marquee - Am I reading too much into it?

[Island Blue]

Two blocks from my house there is a Baptist Church (traditional Southern Baptist). They have a marquee out front, and they change the message often. For the past couple of days, the message has been: "How did Jesus change the world? By suffering."

My first thought when I read it was that it was a subliminal message to say "Torture is good because it can change the world." Is my tinfoil hat way too tight?

I understand Christian beliefs about how and why Jesus died, and he no doubt suffered in the process. (As did everyone else who was ever crucified.) The timing of this sign however is suspect IMO because of the current torture debate. On the other hand, if it means what I think it does it would kind of be equating Jesus to the "terrorists" which I don't think was the church's intention.

Any thoughts on the meaning of the sign, or do I just need to stop reading messages on church marquees? BTW judging by the bumper stickers on cars (and giant trucks) in the church parking lot on Sunday morning, A LOT of Bush Believers attend this church.

[globalvillage]

1. Hey, do me a favor

http://globalvillage.neptune.com/

password torture

Thanks.


Oh, and I don't get the church sign. I agree, sounds like they're comparing detainees to Jesus.

[Island Blue]

2. Nice! Or should I say effective.

Sadly there's nothing nice about it. It's a shame that we have so much material to work with. :-( I'm working on another one but its kind of slow going at the moment.

[globalvillage]

3. I was going for stark.

No pictures. I like the song, and it seemed appropriate.

Thanks for the critique. I'm putting it up on youtube if I can get it to load.

Let me know when yours is done, I'd love to see it.

[Island Blue]

4. It probably won't be for a week or so.

I have to go out of town next week. Unless I can finish it tomorrow.

[globalvillage]

5. Me, too.

I'm in NJ all next week. I hope you're going somewhere fun.
I look forward to seeing your video.

[wisteria]

6. I read this as Jesus suffered for our sins, so that we would have a

chance to redeem ourselves and make the world a better place. I don't read this as they condone torture at all.

[karynnj]

7. same here

I think that the theme that "Jesus died (and suffered) to redeem the world" is a core Christian belief. I vote for odd co-incidence as I suspect the majority of people in the country don't even know there was a bill that passed that was in fact a giant loophole that condones the US using methods the rest of the world considers torture.

I doubt any church would be happy that the Republicans voted down explicitly outlawing the list of methods that Kennedy's amendment did.

[Island Blue]

8. I'm sure you guys are right.

I know I'm just hypersensitive about it at the moment. I'm just so used to churches around here putting up signs with veiled political messages (and sometimes not so veiled political messages) that the timing of this one just struck a nerve. Sorry about that. :(

[ProSense]

9. Strong statement from the NCC

From Worldwide Faith News <[e-mail]>
Date Wed, 27 Sep 2006 22:19:12 -0700

NCC commends video on secret detention and torture

New York City, September 27, 2006--"These stories are hard to watch," says the Rev. Bob Edgar, general secretary of the National Council of Churches USA. He is describing a video, "Outlawed: Extraordinary Rendition, Torture and Disappearances in the 'War on Terror'". It documents the stories of two men who were secretly detained, tortured and flown between countries for months without access to lawyers or representatives of their governments.

"What kind of a nation are we," asks Edgar in the introduction to the video produced by Witness, a Brooklyn-based group using videos to help human rights organizations. "Do we want to lift our nation," asks Edgar, "to higher standards and a moral commitment to civil rights, human rights and people's rights?"

The video uses personal stories of Khaled El-Masri and Binyam Mohamed, two men who suffered in secret detention, along with interviews of family members plus news video of U.S. government officials. The video was produced in association with 14 organizations, including the NCC, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Edgar recommends the video for congregational discussion groups to address this question of torture as part of our national security policy. The NCC's Justice and Advocacy Commission says the video can stimulate conversations at an adult forum but is not suitable for children due to its description of torture.

The General Assembly of the NCC and Church World Service, its partner humanitarian ministry, issued a statement at its 2005 meeting in Maryland denouncing torture. "Torture, regardless of circumstance, humiliates and debases torturer and tortured alike," the statement said in part (complete text below).

The release of the video comes at the same time a Canadian citizen, Mahar Arar, brought legal action against the United States and Canada for his secret detention and alleged torture in a Syrian jail.

The 27-minute documentary is produced by Witness , a video production company that helps non-profit groups tell their stories in pictures. Witness was started by musician Peter Gabriel and the Reebok Human Rights Foundation. It has made several documentaries in collaboration with human rights organizations around the world.

The National Council of Churches is America's leading ecumenical voice of 35 member Protestant, Orthodox, Anglican, historic African American and peace churches comprising 45 million faithful in 100,000 congregations.

more...

http://www.wfn.org/2006/09/msg00347.html

Bush doesn't care!