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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 09:25 PM
Original message
OT: Remember being
Edited on Sun Sep-24-06 09:27 PM by ProSense
tired of Karl Rove's BS, Clinton that is?

WALLACE: Let’s talk some politics. In that same New Yorker article, you say that you are tired of Karl Rove’s B.S., although I’m cleaning up what you said.

CLINTON: But I do like the — but I also say I’m not tired of Karl Rove. I don’t blame Karl Rove. If you’ve got a deal that works, you just keep on doing it.

WALLACE: So what is the B.S.?

CLINTON: Well, every even-numbered year, right before an election, they come up with some security issue.

In 2002, our party supported them in undertaking weapons inspections in Iraq and was 100 percent for what happened in Afghanistan, and they didn’t have any way to make us look like we didn’t care about terror.

And so, they decided they would be for the homeland security bill that they had opposed. And they put a poison pill in it that we wouldn’t pass, like taking the job rights away from 170,000 people, and then say that we were weak on terror if we weren’t for it. They just ran that out.

This year, I think they wanted to make the questions of prisoner treatment and intercepted communications the same sort of issues, until John Warner and John McCain and Lindsey Graham got in there. And, as it turned out, there were some Republicans that believed in the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions and had some of their own ideas about how best to fight terror.

The Democrats — as long as the American people believe that we take this seriously and we have our own approaches — and we may have differences over Iraq — I think we’ll do fine in this election.

But even if they agree with us about the Iraq war, we could be hurt by Karl Rove’s new foray if we just don’t make it clear that we, too, care about the security of the country. But we want to implement the 9/11 Commission recommendations, which they haven’t for four years. We want to intensify our efforts in Afghanistan against bin Laden. We want to make America more energy-independent.

And then they can all, if they differ on Iraq, they can say whatever they want on Iraq.

But Rove is good. And I honor him. I mean, I will say that. I’ve always been amused about how good he is, in a way.

But on the other hand, this is perfectly predictable: We’re going to win a lot of seats if the American people aren’t afraid. If they’re afraid and we get divided again, then we may only win a few seats.

http://thinkprogress.org/clinton-interview


So much for that!
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. He honor's him
what BULLSHIT. This is where Clinton fucks up. How can he honor such a despicable punk, who cares nothing about destroying people.

I'm sorry but Clinton can put on that charisma all he wants,I'm tired of his bullshit rhetoric.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's crazy!
Bush and the Republicans have dragged Clinton's name through the mud for the past five years, leading up to that movie, and now he responds. Throughout that entire time he has made comments excusing Bush, especially on Iraq. Clinton should be angry, his legacy is at stake. The irony of this entire episode is that he is angry about being painted as someone who didn't try. His anger will help, but it would have done wonders in 2003, 2004, 2005 and the first half of 2006. If all the outrage expressed by Democrats like Kerry, Feingold and Dean for the past couple of years had been met with equal passion by Clinton, the kind he displayed today, imagine how much of a collective smack down of the GOP that would have been. Instead 45 days before the election, Clinton gets mad. It might help, if it reaches enough people unfiltered through the media, but four months earlier and a constant press would have had much more impact.

Dozens of threads about how Democrats should follow Clinton's lead, many criticizing Kerry for not doing the same, a mind-boggling claim.

What people fail to realize is how different the media climate was in 1992. The press had no interest in lauding Bush I. Iran Contra would effectively end with pardons. It was on to the next chapter.

In 2006, Clinton will come to realize how much the media has invested in Bush.
The interview is over, the smoke is clearing, the media spin is on, the titles aren't flattering and the clips are being selectively edited and narrated to make Clinton look defensive. And the wingnuts will play up the comments like those about Rove .

Now comes the excuses: give the guy a break!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I give up - Politicasistah and I posted the
usual SBVT didn't fight back stuff - but it's like talking to a wall. He didn't fight back, because the poster was watching and didn't see it. (I think she also fails to see that the war room in 1992 simply had to get a response out quickly enough to get in the same news cycle. and many things brought up were true.)
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I like to think of this as he has finally come to realize these people
are rotten and they mean to change history to make Bush look good and Clinton bad. Some are playing this out like a political move done to help Hillary out, but I saw real anger in Clinton's eyes when he spoke with Wallace. I have seen him upset before when people challenge his record on something whether it was on how he won both of his elections or this particular situation.
I like to think he has come to realize this because of Senator Kerry, who we all know has been speaking up against the administration even during his campaign. He does have a right to defend his record.

If this is a political set up for Hillary, it doesn't change my mind. I still hope she doesn't make it past the primaries.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I think so too n/t
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. His smackdown on Faux
is getting play outside the non-political blogosphere and now people are jumping on the "I love Bill" bandwagon. Oops I thought he was a member of the evil DLC. :eyes:


I am glad he is speaking out though. :shrug:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just - ditto
To the whole thread.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-24-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. my take is that
He looks stronger when he doesn't seem personally mad at Rove, but only objects to their unfair tactics and has a reasonable argument to prove it. The best parts were when he exposed Rovian tactics for all to see--the best way to neutralize them is to make people see through it all. And Kerry's been doing this too--it's a permanent way to fix anything they throw at the Dems.

Clinton is a stand-in for all Dems to the non-liberal population. I was remembering back when I first voted for a Democrat. It was for Bill Clinton in '92. And I had been voting Republican up until then. What appealed to me was that he seemed reasonable and well-intentioned, and for some reason I trusted him--even though I didn't know much about anything at all, as far as politics or policy went. So it was a gut decision. And I did it even though I was being taught that it was un-Christian to vote for a pro-choice candidate!

What he does is appeal to people in the middle who don't want a lot of partisan anger or fighting. If they are Republicans, they'll reject anything else he has to say. If they are moderate Dems they might also be turned off. He asserts his points but doesn't get personal. I think that was the idea with kind of joking about Rove and acting like he wasn't mad at him personally--it was a tactic only.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. The RW/media assault begins
Clinton Loses His Cool (Newsweek, just posted in GD-P)

Why Clinton "Lost His Temper" by William Kristol
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/743aibjn.asp

What Bill Clinton Wanted To Accomplish (this is the full text of an RNC release)
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/09/what_bill_clint_1.html


Think Progress responds:

‘Fact Sheet’ On Clinton Interview Gets It Wrong
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/25/fact-sheet-clinton
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That's where "fighting back" has its risks
I guess I'm the only idiot in the Democratic Party who wouldn't have WANTED a similar smackdown by candidate Kerry in August 2004. It would have felt good for a few minutes, but then it would have completely focused everyone on the accusations, and led to people questioning Kerry's sanity, mental balance, and character. I liked his response in front of the firefighters -- and you know what, BLM, I remember that line about "still having shrapnel in me", and I only watched Jim Lehrer, so SOME MSM outlets did cover that speech.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Nothing wrong with
Edited on Mon Sep-25-06 07:20 PM by ProSense
fighting back as long as they're willing to stick to their guns and not let up. There is no room for a half-ass fight, which is why I don't believe Democrats can play nice with the GOP. If they start something they have to finish it. Problem is the media can turn this into a protracted battle. This is what people fail to understand: Fighting media bias is not a one-time, one-man job; it's a job for the Democratic Party. Look at the GOP smear machine, it's not the RNC, or GOP elected officials and pundits, or the Swift liars, it's all of them, some operating insidiously. Not fighting back leaves it up to the media to define us.

People who say this hurts bipartisanship obviously don't take note of the low down crap that Repubs like McCain engage in and then brush off because they join forces with a Democrat or push a policy, however disingenuous, to reap the benefit of the appearance of bipartisanship. The next day, it's back to being lying GOP hypocrite. Why is it that the Repubs still score high as strong leaders in polls, even as people see them as more corrupt?

Fighting back hard is possible. Part of it is how they approach the fight. I say being soft doesn't help, backing down, especially when they're right, doesn't help. Smoothing things out with constituents is one thing, going easy on the GOP rats is simply setting up for them to take advantage. Once they get the advantage, that registers as strength with the public.



JMO!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I am with you 100%, Beachmom
That is exactly what would have happened. Look at Dean - that happened to him well before the "scream". There were several times he was angry and red faced and there was a Time or Newseek cover asking if he was too angry in late fall.

Kerry's demeanor before the firefighters was perfect and all it really needed was more play - how many times did we hear repeats of the SBVT claim - that short response should have been used to refute it far more often.

One of Kerry's strengthes is that when furious he is still in control and absolutely focused. I still can't believe the Allard put down - he called him on Senate rules Allard broke and on the comments that the war was good.

I also think Clinton slightly misspoke when he was that angry. He WAS NOT the one who got closest to OBL, Bush was .... then he outsourced the effort to Afghan ...... (we all know the quote!) So, Bush had a better shot - and didn't listen to the CIA or the military.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Well that says it all:
"One of Kerry's strengthes is that when furious he is still in control"

Kerry has never let up. Obviously, there is a smart way to fight back!

Still, there is the point that it would have been better to have the Democratic Party united to fight the Swift Liars and their media megaphone, similar to when everyone stood up to fight the "Path to 9/11" lies.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Exactly.
It really was the bloggers in its response to Path to 9/11 (the lib blogosphere was just NOT as mature as it is now) that set everything up for Clinton to do his smackdown yesterday. And the entire Democratic party had galvanized in his defense also. So all of that ground work was done, and then Clinton could go in knowing full well the blogs would back him up.

Where were all these people in '04?

I just got finished angrily replying to a diary about the Allen campaign preparing to swiftboat Webb:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/25/16268/6568

It descended into a total Kerry bashing thing, and I'm for damn sure not tolerating this talk, especially with all of the help Kerry has given the Webb campaign (please note: none of these people are the main Webb bloggers). I'm just sick and tired of the myth of JK not fighting back! And acting like 2004 is the same as 2006. It's just not true.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Speaking of Allen

Senator Accused of Using Racially Charged Term

Snip...

Dr. Shelton, a radiologist now living in North Carolina, said that on a hunting trip Mr. Allen had sought out the home of an African American and affixed the head of a dead deer to the mailbox...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/washington/26allencnd.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


OMG!
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah, that came out last night -- I put it on the Allen thread here
but I wasn't sure if people really read it since it's not technically Kerry related. Salon broke the story. And now I guess Larry Sabato has confirmed that Allen used that word (he went to school with him at UVA).

What's sad is that he may still win the election, because I live in a state full of racists, even people who don't realize they're racists. They kinda say things, without being as blatant as Allen, that make it obvious that they're prejudiced. Sigh. I really hope Webb can pull this thing off.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. OMG Prosense -- ANOTHER one just came out and it's WORSE
Edited on Mon Sep-25-06 10:35 PM by beachmom
Good God:

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content/2006/09/george_allens_r.html

In 1984, I worked as a contract field consultant for the National Republican Congressional Committee and also as a writer for the Voices for Victory Program in the Reagan-Bush Presidential campaign that year.

During that time, I attended a meeting of GOP political operatives in Richmond, Virginia. Among those attending was a young delegate, George Allen, son of the legendary Washington Redskins coach.

At a cocktail party that followed our meeting, Allen huddled with some other Virginia politicos and GOP operatives and discussed the upcoming Presidential election as well as a field of Democratic candidates that, at the time, featured civil rights activist Jesse Jackson.

"You mark my words," Allen said. "Jesse Jackson can't win in Virginia. Hell, he's so far-out that even the n*****s won't vote for him."

A few shuffled their feet and looked away when Allen issued his racial slur. Others laughed. While Allen may have scored as a first-class bigot he failed as a prognosticator. Jackson carried the Virginia Democratic Presidential primary in 1984.

That was my first encounter with a racist named George Allen. Sadly, it would not be my last.

In 1991, while serving as Vice President for Political Programs for The National Association of Realtors, I attended a GOP fundraiser where Allen, then running in a special election for the U.S. House of Representatives, was one of the featured guests.

As a representative of the nation's largest trade association and heading up what was then the country's largest political action committee, I was often cornered by politicians wanting contributions. George Allen was no exception.

"I need your help and support," he said. "Virginia is an old-fashioned state with traditional ideas. Just because we've got a black face in the governor's mansion doesn't mean the n*****s are taking over." Doug Wilder, America's first African American Governor, had taken office in Richmond a year earlier.




I think he should resign. What a disgrace!!!

Edited to add: just found out this outlet is a rag. This might not be true. The stories in the NYT, Salon, and TNR are the better bets. The guy talking here is a Republican, but some have opined Rovelike people could be putting this out to poison all the other legitimate stories. So we'll wait on the validity of this story.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That is a rag! Still,
Allen has a couple of hoofs in his mouth!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-25-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. True - or even focused on the purple heart band aids
If every Democrat could have taken time in ANY forum for the week of or maybe 2 weeks afterwards asking for the RNC to apologize - it could have helped. By then the print media had completly rejected the SBVT.

Someone needed to pull people down to point out that this was not a silly partisan gain. They could have spoken about what soldiers indure for their country - even now. The award they get when wounded is a source of pride to many and they pay a huge price. They could have emphasized who Kerry was at 25 - a son of priviledge with the skills, talents and charm to be almost anything he wanted, engaged to the girl he met and dated since 6 years before. When he went on those boats, he risked that future - and had many friends who died. (It would even have been better not to mention the chicken hawks) What they needed to do was to get people to think of the young Kerry as a very brave man likely terrified for his life and those of his crew.

If all the Democrats had called foul, I have to believe some parts of the media would have followed. Mocking his wounds went below the belt - and it was a shame Americans had to be told that. I think there were no objections because the RW had to some degree had made people almost not think of Kerry as a person.

The point being that on that it couldn't be Kerry who spoke out, but someone should have.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. The problem is
that the "didn't fight back" perception still exists when proven that he did. Especially with the claim that average voters pay more attention to perception rather than facts.:shrug:
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. That's why it's up to us to prove them wrong. n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-27-06 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. I agree - but the norm for years
is that everyone in the party protects the Presidential candidate. It is very rarely the Presidential nominee who fights back. That's why there are surrogates.
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 05:25 AM
Response to Original message
22. This is totally bolluxed!
What do you think, has President Clinton started to inhale?

For starters, it was more than a tad ignoble of Clinton to criticize Senator Kerry for not fighting back during the Swift Boat attacks, expecially considering that John Kerry was one of Clinton’s strongest defenders during the Lewinsky scandal. That “deer in the headlights” line was not only below the belt it was ironic: wasn't Clinton thoroughly sandbagged by Star? He was baited into lying and therefore into his own impeachment. And another reason Clinton shouldn’t talk: he got HIS ass kicked by MICKEY MOUSE (DBA Disney).

Of course, after the fact, there was Clinton’s outburst on FOX. As dramatic as it was to see our former President doing a fairly impressive John Bolton imitation, the display was ultimately, “...all sound and fury signifying NOTHING.”

What has Clinton actually DONE to stop slanderous attacks? Nothing. And this praising of Karl Rove, the Marquise de Swiftboating, is just wrong in so many ways. This HAS to be a parallel universe to one where people are rational and sane. PLEASE tell me it is and that I will wake up and everything will be normal again! Please!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Here is another point!
Edited on Tue Sep-26-06 06:51 AM by ProSense
Less than 6 weeks before the election, Democrats are engaged in a debate about Clinton's record. Dicks Cheney and Rumsfeld, and Cantbelieverlies are out there swatting down what they claim are Clinton's lies. None of what they say is true, but this is the debate. Meanwhile...

Torture, Iraq, the NIE report and Afghanistan have been supplanted in the news by Clinton vs. Bush on who did a better job of not finding bin Laden.

Not one to put words in anyone's mouth, but imagine if Clinton had made one comment (the right one) about his actions by referencing the 9/11 report, then gone on to passionately condemn Bush about his failures since, including one of the the most damaging: sanctioned torture.

The media would have been left with only one solid comment to try to spin, if they even could, since the report vindicates Clinton:

Transcript of Rice's 9/11 commission statement
Wednesday, May 19, 2004 Posted: 0425 GMT (1225 HKT)

Snip...

KEAN: ...And yet, you walk in and Dick Clarke is talking about al Qaeda should be our number-one priority. Sandy Berger tells you you'll be spending more time on that than anything else.

Snip...

RICE: Well, in fact, Mr. Chairman, it was not new information. I think we all knew about the 1998 bombings. We knew that there was speculation that the 2000 Cole attack was al Qaeda. There had been, I think, documentaries about Osama bin Laden.

I, myself, had written for an introduction to a volume on bioterrorism done at Sanford that I thought that we wanted not to wake up one day and find that Osama bin Laden had succeeded on our soil.

It was on the radar screen of any person who studied or worked in the international security field.

But there is no doubt that I think the briefing by Dick Clarke, the earlier briefing during the transition by Director Tenet, and of course what we talked with about Sandy Berger, it gave you a heightened sense of the problem and a sense that this was something that the United States had to deal with.

I have to say that of course there were other priorities. And indeed, in the briefings with the Clinton administration, they emphasized other priorities: North Korea, the Middle East, the Balkans.

RICE: One doesn't have the luxury of dealing only with one issue if you are the United States of America. There are many urgent and important issues.

But we all had a strong sense that this was a very crucial issue. The question was, what do you then do about it?

And the decision that we made was to, first of all, have no drop- off in what the Clinton administration was doing, because clearly they had done a lot of work to deal with this very important priority.

And so we kept the counterterrorism team on board. We knew that George Tenet was there. We had the comfort of knowing that Louis Freeh was there.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/08/rice.transcript/index.html


Finally, the White House reversed position on Tuesday about statements it had made about Clarke. On Sunday, Vice President Dick Cheney said that Clarke had been "out of the loop" in the months before the 9/11 attacks. But The New York Times reports that Ms. Rice said Tuesday that this was not the case and that Clarke "was very much involved in the administration's fight against terrorism."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0325/dailyUpdate.html



New glimpses of Bush worldview
By Peter Grier and Faye Bowers | Staff writers of The Christian Science Monitor

WASHINGTON – An extraordinary fortnight of revelations about US preparedness before Sept. 11 has provided at least this preliminary picture: When the Bush foreign policy team took office in 2000, it was determined to focus on big nations and traditional power geopolitics, not Al Qaeda and the new terrorist threat.

The Clinton people? Sure, they'd made terrorism a priority. But top Bush officials were dismissive of their predecessors' performance, and determined to avoid what they felt were Clintonesque mistakes.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0401/p01s01-usfp.html


(March 27, 2004 -- 03:00 AM EDT // link)

Snip...

At the beginning of 2000, Condi Rice wrote an article in Foreign Affairs outlining the sort of foreign and national security policy America should pursue. It was published as part of the journal's treatment of the 2000 election and in the article Rice was identified as one of then-candidate George W. Bush's foreign policy advisors. The article was intended to be a quasi-official statement of Bush's policies for the foreign policy elite -- the folks who read Foreign Affairs.

I read the piece at the time, or near after, and it was certainly very widely read by people in the foreign policy community.

I mention it now because this evening a reader reminded me of it and brought a now-pertinent fact to my attention. In the article Rice notes five key foreign policy priorities. Only the last made any mention of terrrorism and it was: "to deal decisively with the threat of rogue regimes and hostile powers, which is increasingly taking the forms of the potential for terrorism and the development of weapons of mass destruction."

Her article then elaborates on each of the five priorities and takes up the fifth toward the end of the piece.

It's well worth linking through and reading.

Not only does she not mention al Qaida or Osama bin Laden, she scarcely even mentions terrorism in the sense we now generally understand it. Her discussion is about North Korea, Iraq and Iran -- rogue states that might threaten the US with weapons of mass destruction (primarily with the use of missiles) -- and, to a much lesser extent, state-sponsored terrorism from Iran.

The key policy prescription for this section is contained in this paragraph ...

One thing is clear: the United States must approach regimes like North Korea resolutely and decisively. The Clinton administration has failed here, sometimes threatening to use force and then backing down, as it often has with Iraq. These regimes are living on borrowed time, so there need be no sense of panic about them. Rather, the first line of defense should be a clear and classical statement of deterrence -- if they do acquire WMD, their weapons will be unusable because any attempt to use them will bring national obliteration. Second, we should accelerate efforts to defend against these weapons. This is the most important reason to deploy national and theater missile defenses as soon as possible, to focus attention on U.S. homeland defenses against chemical and biological agents, and to expand intelligence capabilities against terrorism of all kinds.



The central policy recommendation is national missile defense -- a defensive capacity aimed at states. And though there is mention of chemical and biological agents and the need to "expand intelligence capabilities against terrorism of all kinds" even a quick read of the entire section shows clearly that ideologically-based transnational terrorism simply wasn't on her radar as a significant threat to the United States.

There's no mention of Afghanistan or the madrassas in Pakistan, the importance of knocking down terrorist financial networks, Islamist sleeper cells in American or Germany. None of it.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_03_21.php


The point is Clinton took the megaphone and instead of shining a light on today's failures, he decided to fight a battle from 2001. He no doubt has a right to do this, but after five years of silence, why now?

As Karyn pointed out why make this election a referendum on Clinton?
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. That's the problem I've always had with Clinton.
It's all about him. The reason I support John Kerry is because, with Kerry, it's all about us (Democrats and the American people in general). Kerry's a public servant, as opposed to a slave to his own vanity. In the same circumstance, you can bet Senator Kerry would have seized the opportunity and nailed them with the facts insteading of going off on a tirade of, "Me, me, me!" Clinton should have focused his attacks more on their failings than on defending himself. He missed a golden opportunity because he wanted to position himself center stage with his righteous indignation.

Someone should tell our former leader that this year isn't about Bill Clinton: it's about winning Congressional and Senate seats. And you don't do that by having tantrums or by praising the likes of Karl Rove.


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-26-06 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I'm probably
Edited on Tue Sep-26-06 07:28 AM by ProSense
in big trouble. I posted my comment in a thread in GD that's on the Greatest page!
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