Clinton--"I am sick of Karl Rove's bullshit", disses K campaingn

[politicasista]

What's up with him anyway?:shrug:


For those who don't visit GD (credit to kpete)

Clinton on Rove: "I am sick of Karl Rove's bullshit" (New Yorker)

Here is a non-exhaustive list of nuggets from the piece; those looking for a precis can find one of sorts in the New Yorker PR dept's aforementioned 1,066-word account, as well as a New Yorker Q&A with Remnick here.

Clinton on Rove: "I am sick of Karl Rove's bullshit."

Clinton on the Kerry campaign: "Like a deer caught in the headlights."

Clinton on the vote to go into Iraq: "I'm sick and tired of being told that if you voted for authorization you voted for the war. It was a mistake, and I would have made it, too....The administration did not shoot straight on the nuclear issue or on Saddam's supposed ties to Al Qaeda prior to 9/11."

Chelsea on her father's handling of the AIDS crisis after writing a thesis on the subject at Oxford: "I gave you a grade," she told her father. "What did I get?" Clinton asked. "C-plus." Her rationale: "You didn't do nearly enough. But you did more than anyone else in the world."

Clinton on dying: "I've reached an age now where it doesn't matter whatever happens to me...I just don't want anyone to die before their time anymore."

much more at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eat-the-press/2006/09/18/...

[karynnj]

1. I read the article on last week when the magazine came

It accounts for my worse than usual didlike of Mr Clinton. He is a self-centered egotist.

His criticism of both Kerry and Gore as losers in two places in the article is beyond sickening, especially as each time he then pats himself on the back as a winner. He convieniently forgets that Bush won running on, "restore honor to the White House". The election would not have even been close if Bill did not act in a truely disgusting fashion. His behavior STILL hurts the Democrats.

Both Al Gore and John Kerry have more integrity and character in one finger than Bill "endorse all the gay bashing bills" Clinton.

Reading the Obama article on Salon, I found the following letter that says better what I've tried to say on 1992 being far easier than 2004 - this person remembered things I forgot years ago.

"disregarding a 'dead girl/live boy' scenario, obama seems destined for the white house. but we shouldn't set him up with an 0-1 record before he's had a chance to really distinguish himself. we always refer back to clinton when we want to talk about democrats who know how to win, but this sort of thinking seems to overlook the fact that clinton won his first election due to a series of enormously fortuitous circumstances: george h.w. bush's failure to honor his 'read my lips' promise; the entry of h. ross perot; the reluctance of popular democratic leaders like dick gephardt to enter the race against an imcumbent president coming off of a victorious 'war'; the fact that clinton's 'pussy problems' came out long before the primaries, when he wasn't even a contender, so they were essentially forgotten about before the real campaign got started; the ineptitude of his opponents in the primaries; george h. w. bush's obvious exhaustion and reluctance to campaign (checking his watch during debates; throwing up under the table in japan, etc.), and so forth.

bottom line: without ross perot, bill clinton never would have won.

[Blaukraut]

2. Exactly!

bottom line: without ross perot, bill clinton never would have won.

People in the Clinton camp seem to conveniently forget that fact.

[JI7]

3. Kerry and probably Gore would have won in 1992

and probably by more than Clinton did. Clinton got like less than 45 percent in 1992.

and Clinton's biggest advantage in 1992 being the absence of the issue Dems have been viewed as weakest on which is defense since it was the end of the cold war.

so Clinton had all that plus Perot as mentioned, and of course his own background as a southern moderate and yet still won only a plurality.

Kerry having all the so called weaknesses from being a mass liberal senator with anti war record , and running after the biggest attack on our nation just 3 years earlier, and coming so close to winning.

Clinton neeeds to get over himself. he wont be able to substitute for Hillary in primary debates and other events.

[wisteria]

6. I think we need to start repeating this. If he is going to set himself up

as the case study in winning, I think it is only fair to analyze and dissect his lucky win.

It is a shame, this makes me dislike Senator Clinton and she wasn't even a part of this.

[karynnj]

7. I have in the past - though I was way too wordy and

explained too much on Perot. (I was trying to make sure they knew it wasn't just that he was a thgird partyt candidaet siphoning off votes, he bashed Bush very hard - far harder than Clinton. Also, Clinton vaunted war room was a reaction because his past kept creeping in.)

This doesn't make me like or dislike Hillary. I have gotten to the point that after 5 years as a Senator and 8 as First Lady and having read the first 100 or so pages of her autobiography - which are fascinating - then it got terminally boring. (The Clinton biographies are among the few I started and didn't finish.)

[blm]

10. Without Kerry's 5yrs exposing IranContra and BCCI, Clinton wouldn't have

won.

[politicasista]

4. Aw Duh! I forgot it was already mentioned n/t

[karynnj]

8. I'm glad you posted it - The New Yorker didn't have it online

and I'm a very bad typist. It's great people got to actually see it.

[wisteria]

5. Hey, I am sick of Clinton's bullshit too. Oh, and for the headlights

descriptive, I think he meant Bush. Screw Clinton. He wants his wife to be President and he will trash anyone to get her there. What a jerk, smile in their faces and stab them in the back. There was no need for him to trash other Dem's. Did he do that because some blogger told him it would get a lot of attention? He was just lucky to win the first time after that bumbling campaign of his and the second time- look who he ran against- Dole. He has no class.

[ProSense]

12. Clinton on Kerry

Transcript: President Clinton and Senator Kerry in Philadelphia
October 25, 2004
Philadelphia, PA

We have different philosophies. John Kerry and the rest of us who are supporting him want a country and a world of shared responsibilities and shared opportunities and a stronger community, where we cooperate with others whenever we can and act alone only when we have to.

Our friends on the other side want a world where they concentrate wealth and power on the far right, do what they want to when they can and cooperate with others only when they have to. I am very proud of John Kerry and the campaign he has run. He never gives up.


He never gives up. I remember in the primary campaign, very early, they were saying, "Oh, Kerry's dead. He's dashed expectations. He can't win." He just kept being John Kerry. And he won in Iowa. He won in New Hampshire. And he won the nomination for president.


I remember, early in this campaign, they said, "Oh, Kerry's beat. He's too far behind. He's dead as a door nail." And then he gave us three magnificent performances in those debates, and he's leading in this race.


CLINTON: I am proud that John Kerry has treated the voters of America with genuine respect. He's given them his specific plans on jobs, on health care, on energy, on security.
In the closing days of this election -- and you know I've been home watching it, so I see all this stuff...


... the other side, they're trying to scare the undecided voters about Senator Kerry.
And they're trying to scare the decided voters away from the polls. We know about that, don't we? It worked so well in Florida, they seem to be trying it elsewhere.

In the closing days of this campaign, John Kerry's gone on being John Kerry, talking about his hopes for America, his plans for America, his commitment to our security and our prosperity.

Now, one of Clinton's laws of politics is this: If one candidate's trying to scare you and the other one's trying to get you to think, if one candidate's appealing to your fears and the other one's appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.
That's the best.


My fellow Americans, we can do better. And in eight days we're going to do better with President John Kerry. Bring him on.


http://www.clintonfoundation.org/102504-cf-gn-ele-usa-ts-wjc-and-senator-kerry-in-philadelphia.htm

[wisteria]

13. This the honest Clinton, the other one is the self-serving Clinton.

I would like to remind him of his words back then.

[ProSense]

9. Laura Bush aiding Clinton conference

Laura Bush aiding Clinton conference

By JENNIFER LOVEN, Associated Press Writer Thu Sep 14, 9:50 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Another member of the Bush family is getting cozy with former
President Clinton. First lady Laura Bush joins the former president as a keynote speaker opening his three-day Clinton Global Initiative in New York next week.

Clinton has famously formed a close friendship with the current president's dad. Clinton has been a repeat guest at the Kennebunkport, Maine, home of George H.W. Bush and his wife, Barbara.

Snip...

The first lady's speech next Wednesday will cover topics such as literacy and education, AIDS and women's rights that she has highlighted in her travels. They include 11 solo trips to 27 countries in the nearly six years of her husband's presidency.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060915/ap_on_go_pr_wh/laura_bush_3

Is she going to push condoms and abstinence again?


I first saw this at Taylor Marsh's site, where she pointed to Bush's abysmal record on AIDS and questioned why Clinton was giving Bush leverage using of all people Laura Bush. Clinton couldn't find a more credible keynote speaker?

[ProSense]

11. Bill Clinton is the "deer caught in the headlights"

Clinton defends successor's push for war

Says Bush 'couldn't responsibly ignore' chance Iraq had WMDs

Wednesday, June 23, 2004 Posted: 7:55 AM EDT (1155 GMT)

(CNN) -- Former President Clinton has revealed that he continues to support President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but chastised the administration over the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/index.html

If Bill Clinton is tired of Rove's BS, he needs to stop spewing it, which is what he's doing with this claim. He must have forgotten that Kerry got 12 million more votes than he did!

[karynnj]

14. Over on DU now

Some of our "non friends" are having fun. Hey, Wisteria - I'm yealous - I thought I was being tough on Clinton BUT no one responded to me. Your post was great and it should be an honor to be on that guy's ignore list ... esp as he goes on to point out "he's not listening" How cute?

Interesting that the Huffington Post left out his criticism of Gore in the same paragraph. The New Yorker article is not on line. I need to find my copy and put in those paragraphs.

[wisteria]

15. LOL, I will have to go and check back on that post. Interesting about

Gore isn't it. I would like to see how AK would respond if Gore were included in the Huffinton piece.

[karynnj]

16. Exactly - we've had run ins in the past

I will look for my magazine - I suspect my husband took it.

[ProSense]

17. Oh brother!

Clinton sees hope of fresh Mideast initiative

By Chrystia Freeland and Edward Luce
Updated: 7:12 p.m. ET Sept. 19, 2006

President Clinton, whose annual conference, the Clinton Global Initiative, begins in New York on Wednesday, said the deteriorating situation in Iraq and Afghanistan and the aftermath of the war in Lebanon had created the conditions for "some kind of positive movement to take place."

Snip...

In a wide-ranging interview, President Clinton offered a subtle but cogently-presented rebuttal of the Bush administration's approach to foreign policy saying that rising global resentment towards the US could mostly be overcome by a change in the US administration's attitude towards those feeling the resentment. President Clinton said that people around the world could disagree with particular policies the US pursued but still feel goodwill towards America if they felt it held their ultimate interests at heart.

"If you run a big country that has to make controversial decisions - people can't possibly agree with your decisions all the time, then you must bend over backwards to make sure they feel that at least you care about them, you know about their concerns and that you're pulling for them. Policy is important. But attitude is also important."

Snip...

President Clinton offered clear advice for Democratic candidates seeking to counter Republican arguments on national security. He said it did not matter if Democratic candidates recommended differing strategies for how to change course in Iraq - whether it was setting a deadline for withdrawal of US troops, as some, such as John Kerry, the losing 2004 presidential candidate had proposed, or altering the military and civil reconstruction strategy in Iraq without setting a deadline for pulling out, as President Clinton has argued.

"The point is that Americans will tolerate Democratic differences on Iraq because the current situation has not worked," he said."The Democrats can have differences on this but they won't win the election just by criticising Iraq."

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14905804

Bush recommits to Mideast peace

by Olivier Knox 1 hour, 10 minutes ago

UNITED NATIONS (AFP) - US President George W. Bush recommitted himself to the Middle East peace process on the eve of a meeting with embattled Palestinian President Mahmud Abbas.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060919/pl_afp/unassemblyusbush_060919222127

Bush, Clinton have chance encounter at U.N.

1 hour, 1 minute ago

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - You never know who you might run into at the
United Nations.

President George W. Bush found that out on Tuesday with a chance encounter with his predecessor,
Bill Clinton.

Bush clapped his arm over Clinton's shoulders and pulled Iraqi President Jalal Talibani over for a three-way chat.

"It was unplanned, unexpected. When you see another president standing nearby, the proper thing to do is to go over and say 'hi'," said White House spokesman Tony Snow.

He said it was a brief and "very nice, very pleasant conversation."

Bush was just leaving a luncheon with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and Clinton was there for an AIDS funding conference.

Despite being from different political parties, Clinton and Bush's father, former President George Bush, have been close since joining forces to help victims of the South Asia tsunami.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060919/us_nm/un_bush_clinton_dc_1

[wisteria]

18. Clinton needs to retire and tend to a garden and shut up. I can't

take much more from him. Someone needs to keep him busy and away from the media. You know, I can't believe how much he needs to be the center of attention. :banghead:

[karynnj]

19. What does this mean in real life?

President Clinton said that people around the world could disagree with particular policies the US pursued but still feel goodwill towards America if they felt it held their ultimate interests at heart.

I'm not being flippant - is this neo-con?

[ProSense]

20. Attached the preceding statement and it

sound's like a neo-liberal apologists saying Bush's failed policies and crimes are simply a difference of opinion.

[karynnj]

21. It makes it sound like he thinks the

problem is all PR or marketing - where we need to change the relationship we have with a country we are not currently getting along with. Subtle is an understatement - cogent or not. I really thing the world would like some major behavior changes.

I find it far easier to parse even the most complicated of Kerry's sentences than this. I think in part I really didn't want to believe it. I'm with you and Wisteria.

[ProSense]

22. That was

a terrific post in the GD! Awesome!

[karynnj]

25. it was the angriest thing I ever wrote - I stold large parts

from the other threads we were fighting. I notice you and BLM have the same person angry with you as I have. I wish she would drop the big picture of the Gores - I have to fight to not blame them for her attacks. :) And that is not rational.

[wisteria]

24. I think it sounds like something close to what Chaney said today

about us saving the world.

So, let me see here, we do things to anger and put other countries in harms way, but they will ultimately understand because we are looking out for their best interests. I think this sounds irrational- seriously. It is like a parent saying I am going to beat you, because it is good for you.
Oh, and as for Chaney's over the top comments today see the link below.



Cheney says hopes of world rest on U.S



Cheney said that, to President Truman, the term Cold War was "an expression he never much cared for and seldom used. He called it the war of nerves. When you think about it, that's an apt description of the kind of challenge America is now facing."

"The war on terror is a test of our strength, a test of our capabilities, and above all a test of our character," Cheney said.

"We know that the hopes of the civilized world ride with us. Our cause is right, it is just and this nation will prevail," Cheney added.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060920/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney



What a ghoul, just in time for the Halloween season.

[ProSense]

32. Why would anyone try to prop up a man who

sanctioned this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2837263&mesg_id=2837263

[karynnj]

30. Prosense - did you post this in DU-P?

I just re-read it - because it bothered me so much yesterday. It bothers me that 50 days before the election, Clinton syas,

"President Clinton, whose annual conference, the Clinton Global Initiative, begins in New York on Wednesday, said the deteriorating situation in Iraq and Afghanistan and the aftermath of the war in Lebanon had created the conditions for "some kind of positive movement to take place.

While emphasising that he had no "insider knowledge", President Clinton said: "All these bad news stories have created a sense that if we don't want further disintegration to occur then we had better come up with a strategy that goes forward in creating a new sense of order that enables everybody to live together. I'm not sure you won't see some positive things come out of the Middle East in the next 60 days."

"It is time to think about what we can do to break out of this, otherwise we have three choices. We can say: "We know who our adversaries are and we can accelerate the confrontation, or we can kick the can down the road and hope the underlying realities change, or we can try to rearrange the pieces and players and try to put a puzzle together". It seems to me the latter course is the best…It wouldn't surprise me to see some fairly interesting things come out."

I now thing the reason this bothered me was that it sounds too much like the Noah Feldman article explaining the neo con idea of "creative destabilization,"

http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F10910F63F5B0C738FDDAE0894DE404482

His 4 points for showing strength on national security:
- Win Afghanistan
- Energy
- Implement 911
- give foreign aid to the developing world

These are not explained anywhere near as well as Kerry's. They also ignore Iraq, which is kind of the big elephant in the room. It's also not clear how we add to foreign aid if we're spending the same on Iraq. The other Kerry one left out is to restore moral leadership - this was a natural for Kerry - not Clinton.

Other than that - the first 3 are roughly equivilent to Kerry's. ( Clinton almost uses Kerry 2004 language on energy - ignoring his Presidency was in the years "the locust ate" on this.)

[ProSense]

31. Done! n/t

[ProSense]

23. Nothing like focusing on 2006

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2836469&mesg_id=2836469

[wisteria]

26. This is getting disgusting. We really need to clean house.

They must think the Democrats can't wait for a repeat of the Clinton years. This is really ridiculous. I suppose, if this turns out to be true we know what we are up against, the old party ways virsus the new.

[JI7]

27. "deer caught in the headlights"

sounds more like something that should apply to Clinton hanging out with the Bush family while the Republicans went on lying about him being responsible for 9/11 and having done nothing to fight terrorism. that all hurt Kerry and other Dems in 2002 and 2004 more than most things that he might think.

and most recently with that shitty abc movie that was released and him and his people suddenly get outraged now.

and he suddenly finds reasons for voting for iwr and why it's not a vote for war .

[ray of light]

28. besides "dear caught in the headlights' was more like his reaction

to the whole Kenneth Star debaucle!

I mean how many years did they drag his name and the whole Democratic party through the mud?

[karynnj]

29. good point

I wonder if there was any significance to Kerry choosing Pepperdine as the location of his speech. It could be a coincidence, but as well as Kerry defining his own religious values, he is, like Obama, representing that Democrat have these values too. Also to reach out to the other side going to where they are makes sense. I wonder if Starr was there.