This needs help!!!!

[kerrygoddess]

I can't I'm getting ready to head out to see JK -

Late Nite FDL: Dead Man Talking
http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/17/late-nite-fdl-dead-man-talking/#more-4538

[whometense]

1. lotta spew over there

I can't think of a thing to say to that bunch of deadenders that would make a difference.

Update: Okay, I said something - at #437 I doubt anyone will even see it.

What does it say about Kerry that two years later a nasty - reallllly nasty - post about him inspires 437 responses in a few hours?

[karynnj]

2. I wonder if it makes sense to even get in here

There are already hundreds of comments mostly from people impressed with their own radicalism and how hard they worked. Linking Kerry and Lieberman as the same is strange - anyone there can not be reached by reason. The only person - in the first 50 or so comments who I felt bad about was a VVAW person who clearly felt Kerry not responding to the SBVT was a betrayal of him and others.

Others were at this level of intelligence:
I’m a big Kathleen Madigan fan. She has a bit on Kerry: (Imagine a stuffy New England accent here)

“I’m sorry I speak like a man from the 15th centur-ay and here’s my freaky wife in charge of ketchup”

Responding intelligently is impossible without looking clueless - they likely know that Kerry's speech is fine and Teresa a commendble person - they simply think the joke is worth it. Pathetic.

The question is did many on this site support Kerry in 2004?

[whometense]

6. I've really soured on that site.

In the beginning - they got famous via the Plame case - it was a great site. Very informative, serious, and kind of homey. Politics were there, but always in service of the truth.

It's really changed - and, for me, jumped the shark. In spite of the fact that Taylor Marsh posts there (one of the comments referenced her in a real snarky way) the people there jumped head first into the Lamont/Lieberman fight, and their success (if it was theirs) has gone to their heads.

Like Kos, and like every other mainstream blog, they attract a lot of me-tooers. No thinking, just emotional outbursts worthy of a two-year-old's temper tantrum. It literally made me sick to read that crap, and again I'm impressed by Kerry's willingness to even consider wading into the primary muck a second time. I see no sign this far out that the 2008 primary season will be any less acrimonious than 2004 was.

I just wish people would think before they open their mouths. Why can't people talk about the good in their own preferred candidate rather than tear a good (VERY good) democrat down.

I'm thinking of emailing Taylor the link and asking her what she thinks of posting on a site that would publish this.

[TayTay]

7. I removed them from my favorites list

I just don't think that I have anything in common with them. We don't want the same things from America, from democracy and from our candidates. That much is obvious and I don't think they are worth my time or effort anymore. They are just odious and entirely negative people who don't believe in anything but their own ability to snark.

[whometense]

8. Good idea.

I have too.

What do you think of the idea of sending the post to Taylor? She probably will see it anyway...

[TayTay]

9. She probably has seen it

and she is in LA, she might be seeing someone else today too! I don't think that will do any good, she does like the people over there, even if she disagrees with their assessments of the people.

[karynnj]

19. I noticed that many of the nastier ones

posted many many times. They really must fear he has a chance - 2 years later the anger should have died - or at least been directed where it belonged. Kerry did his part as well as any campaign I ever saw - far better than 1992 - where Clinton won almost in spite of himself.

The Medis, the government, and some churches all should reflect on their role - though many still thing that the bad actions they did were for a higher goal. they need to look at what that goal really was. It's not pretty.

[beachmom]

10. Well, I just wrote an angry post (it's submitted, but maybe they won't

publish). I guess after that whole incident this past weekend with Gary Norton's brother's story and John Kerry's comment on DKos, I just have NO tolerance for this crap:

What a vile piece of garbage post, based on innuendo, mean spiritedness, and NOTHING of substance. So much to criticize, but I'll just take these three paragraphs:


I’m not going into battle with you again. When it got ugly, you took your rich white ass back to Boston even as reports were pouring in on election day 2004 that something was really wrong in Ohio. You conceded before the damn polls were even closed!

Maybe you don’t realize how deeply disappointing it was for all of us who had worked so hard to try and push you over the line to watch you run from fight after fight. The other side was perfectly willing to get ugly, but it was like you couldn’t be bothered to get your hands dirty. You equivocated. You withered under fire. You hit all the wrong notes and yet we hung in there, trying to believe, hoping against hope, praying that the country would change directions before it went over the cliff.

At times, you seemed to be the only person who didn’t realize that thousands and thousands of human lives were at stake in that election. It was, you know, just another day on the golf course for you. We needed you to fight and you folded. We needed you to shout and you mumbled. I am NOT going to let you let me down again.



Conceded before the polls were closed? Gee, I don't recall a concession until the NEXT DAY. I don't know of ANY polls that are open the day AFTER Election Day.

Obviously, you did NOT watch the concession speech, because the part where JK choked up THE MOST and was visibly emotional was when he was thanking those who volunteered and helped out. He said "I wish I could put my arms around all of you." And to this day, he has spoken of how he let down so many Americans who didn't have health care, who were in desparate need for change. You don't think he GETS THAT??? That tells me you don't KNOW John Kerry, never BOTHERED to GET to KNOW him, and now with your pathetic knowledge of him (which probably didn't make you much of an advocate when it mattered most) leads you to write such filth.

Your post says little about John Kerry, and a lot about someone who is looking for ONE PERSON to blame for what amounts to DEMOCRATIC PARTY problems. Our Party infrastructure has been deteriorating for years -- Howard Dean is currently working on a 50 State strategy but it is going to be SOME TIME before we can equal the Republican grassroots machine.

So instead of this horrid post, why aren't you thinking of solutions for our party instead of bashing our last candidate with Clintonista/Rove talking points? Oh, that's right. It's a GREAT way of escaping accepting responsibility for a party that has more problems than one candidate (who bested the prez in ALL 3 debates, in case you've forgotten).

[karynnj]

21. Great post and it's up there

I posted the DU research forum and the NYU speech urls.

[Blaukraut]

3. How nasty they are!

Whome, you're right - your response will likely be drowned out. What a bunch of self-righteous oh-so-perfectly-pure asshats!

[fedupinBushcountry]

4. I responded

to the nasty little bullies. I thought I was on a right wing site.

[TayTay]

5. And people like this wonder why we have trouble attracting voters

and votes. All I can say is that I hope to God I never have to work, canvass, phone-bank or really ever interact with people like that. I hope they all stick together so that we can point out what a small group of negative and nasty people they really are.

Anyone ever endorsed by those people would get a second look from me. I would want to make sure I am not throwing my money away on those who hurt the Democratic Party and Democratic candidates. I would look long and hard before I would endorse anything these cretins do.

[ProSense]

11. Well look what I did!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/18/132441/145

[Blaukraut]

12. Heh, lets see if it works

I can already picture it; Kos traffic drops to almost nonexistent as the masses run over to the FDL post to add their bile. We'll have kos all to ourselves :-)

[ProSense]

13. It will need a few

comments and recs to stay up!

[beachmom]

15. I think traffic is down at Kos in general

It's REALLY tough to get on the Rec List. I haven't had any luck lately, but you know, hopefully enough people will see it, if they page through the diaries. But we're not exactly in friendly territory. In fact, the only time Kos traffic really had an upward trend had to do with John Kerry posting in January. And since the haters are once again dominating, I notice traffic is down (it's been documented). I REALLY think people want to read positive things about Dems (and others, too, not just Kerry), but quickly stop reading if it gets too negative. We're digging our own grave if this is what it's going to be about . . .

[TayTay]

16. I think are out working on campaigns as well

and don't have time to hang out with the idle chit-chatters and haters. At least I hope that's what it is. It would be sad to think that this medium is all about just the abject hatred of others who share your cause.

[beachmom]

17. That's a good point. Also, local blogs have had an INCREASE in traffic

Blogs like RaisingKaine here in Virginia. That would make sense, since people can only focus on their own state elections, and don't have time to find out what's happening in, say, Montana.

[Blaukraut]

18. oops, I completely forgot. Reco'ed and posted now, though! n/t

[wisteria]

22. I hope I have helped out a little. n/t

[ProSense]

26. Thanks!

:)

[beachmom]

28. Somebody just called you "Dude". Just so you know. n/t

[beachmom]

14. Awesome ProSense!!

I really can't stand these people! I hope it will make just one person, just one person, think . . .

[ProSense]

24. Thanks! They

will not be able to hide behind these attacks during a campaign.

[MH1]

27. Good job.

I stayed home sick from work today (notice, no quotes) and I was feeling a little better, thought I'd check in here, and first thing I saw was kg's post, right after she posted it. Idiot me, I had to go look. After a few minutes wading through that swamp I had to go back to bed for an hour or so. Yech. Just yech.

I was happy to see all these comments when I came back. I heartily agree. FDL was once a worthy blog but for reasons I can only speculate, they've handed their megaphone to some true assholes, and it makes me sad to see it.

[politicasista]

33. Always interesting that everyone BUT Kerry can run again

He must be a serious threat for real, but he doesn't speak clear for common people to understand. :sarcasm:


Nice way to promote other candidates, huh?

Not.

[wisteria]

20. Notice that we have heard all these types of comments before.

I would like to suggest that this group of haters have banded together and now travel around to post all over, the same old tired arguments and to promote their real winner of a candidate. I saw Dean mentioned, Clark, Edwards. It may well be just the 300 or so of them virus the rest of the country.
They really are childish and they seem to have to stick together to reinforce their opinions.

[ProSense]

23. Exactly!

They're sensing that Kerry is gaining a lot of momentum and are turning up the attacks! The tired arguments can't work anymore, so they're resorting to childish tactics, such as silly photos and name-calling!

[Democrafty]

25. That was my reaction, too.

There using "all of my exes should be shipped to a desert island" logic to tear JK, appealing to emotions because they can't claim that the Senator isn't doing important work.

[MBS]

29. thanks to everyone

thanks to everyone for your help!

[TayTay]

30. Enter and sign in please!

Welcome to the John Kerry forum on DU. We were your very first DU post! ('tis an honor.) Maybe it's just me, but this is a sort of grumpy place today. (I think it is me and it's my fault. I am on pins and needles for a primary tomorrow and am not in the best of moods. My apologies. Imagine what I am like when we are behind in the polls, sigh!)

Welcome, welcome. Come in, introduce your self and pull up a chair.

:patriot:

[MBS]

31. re entering and signing in

I would have posted much earlier, but DU makes it so complicated (as it is, they've messed up my account). Firedog Lake and the Busheviks (moniker cribbed from some blog somewhere. . perfect term) have spoiled my mood for the day. Care a lot about same primary, and will vote tomorrow, but it's one of my lesser worries at the moment.

[TayTay]

36. I understand, it's nice to have you here.

I'm voting North of Boston. I actually live in a 'red' town, so there is much to be done beyond tomorrow. But, I think we can get a Dem Governor, I know it's doable this year.

Again, welcome!

Every so often these vicious attack posts come out. It's actually strange to see it on firedoglake because the main posters have been much better lately. Also, the netroots project that was spun out of firedoglake has had the most success meeting with Senate staff of just about anyone on that project. I believe they have arranged to meet either quarterly or bi-monthly with Sen. Kerry's Chief of Staff in Boston to discuss their concerns. Ahm, excuse me, but that is a direct ability to convey their concerns, not to an intern, but to the Senators's Massachusetts Chief of Staff. http://www.netrootsmass.net/files/category-4.html

Damn, sometimes it just sucks to be on the web. There is no pleasing some people. Those who complaint the most actually have the least to say.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. I'm not going to even click it.

Can't handle the blood pressure spike. I just might have a fury-induced heart attack. Even reading about it makes me want to vent.

****caution the following rant is not for the faint of heart****

I will say this:

FUCK Firedoglake.

FUCK these pathetic do-nothing piece of shit crybabies who do nothing but sit in their parents' basement and furiously masturbate with Dorito-stained hands while fantasizing about the latest makebelieve savior of All Things Progressive.

FUCK THEM with a rusted tire iron. They are vile, wicked people who know only hatred and pettiness and who are incapable of caring about anything greater than themselves. They exemplify what is wrong with the world today and will only ever serve to create friction, hate, and chaos as long as they pollute the earth with their foul presence.

They are not fit to lick the shit from John Kerry's boots. Fuck them all. I have nothing but utter contempt and hatred for every last one of them. They are worse than worthless and they can rot in hell next to the neocons they enable.

That is all.

****rant over****

[beachmom]

34. Um -- that could use a little more feeling and passion, WEL

I don't read it regularly -- I thought they used to do the Plame investigation, but I guess they've "bridged" out. You were wise to not read it -- it was WORSE than most of the rants on DU, and that's saying a lot.

[WildEyedLiberal]

35. Yeah, I've been told that I'm too restrained.

Just like my idol, John Kerry (whom I follow with slavish, botlike devotion), I am an awkward cold fish, incapable of expressing myself succinctly and with conviction. I am utterly devoid of passion and it reflects in my dull, convoluted writing style. That must be why I feel such an affinity with John Kerry.

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

[Democrafty]

37. Taylor Marsh has something to say to this post:

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=24527

[ProSense]

38. Good post, but Taylor

posts at FDL and her statement has a tone of disappointment, which I can understand.

Me, I don't post at FDL, the vile pigs in that thread deserve contempt! At some point everyone will get behind a candidate (some will have to settle cause frankly the imaginary one's can't run), when they do, it's on! Btw, it'll be on with facts, not smear or vile BS!

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. I responded to Taylor's post

One of them had the audacity to come onto Taylor's blog and claim she'd been misrepresented and that she really respects John Kerry. My ASS. Fuck these tools.

[ProSense]

40. Excellent!

So is the comment after yours!

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. BTW I agree that it's on.

I won't resort to the filthy tactics these lying vermin have - I won't lie about another candidate. But thanks to their utter lack of morals, I will have no hesitation in hitting them and their candidates as hard as I can. Truth hurts, and by the time I'm done with them, they'll have a new understanding of pain.

Politics is a bloodsport; the weak need not apply. If this shit is how they want to play the game, fine. Bring on 2008, fuckers. They will rue the day they declared war on John Kerry.

[politicasista]

46. She laid the smackdown on him/her too n/t

[wisteria]

45. well, that was nice. I glad she had something postive to add. n/t

[cadmium]

41. It's worth checking in on this thread once in a while

I added a comment - my virgin firedoglake post.

I think people remember the first few and last few posts on a thread. So it good to have the last word or two.

They will probably sneak some more nasty comments in later tonight after people who work for a living go to bed.

[whometense]

43. how right you are

"beyond passionate" from today's kos thread is over there whining about how abused he was today at #472.

Don’t know if this thread is kaput by now, but had to add…

<[b>I stood up for the gist of this post over at Kos earlier today, and have been savaged all afternoon. They thought it’s terrible to dis such an honorable man as Kerry (it is, actually, but I think it’s justified. Unfortunate, but justified) I finally told them they must be young enough that Kerry was the first presidential election they followed & they must have become infatuated by him. After a few elections you begin to be less idealistic and look at the electability of the candidate. The election was Kerry’s to lose, and he did just that. Sure, the MSM was horribly biased and Rove and his swiftboaters slung outrageous lies, and it’s pretty clear Bush received much help in Ohio from Blackwell & Diebold. But in spite of all that, Kerry should have been able to make his case that Bush is a miserable moron unfit for any public office, and he did no such thing. I’ve never seen such a lame, mealy-mouthed campaign in my life. I hold Kerry responsible for the horrors this county has had to endure the past 2 years & the horrors likely to follow in the next 2 years.

Anyway, is there the slight possibility that the dems can find a suitable candidate up to the challenge of 08? God, help us and this country if we can’t.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

a quartet of no pity

[karynnj]

44. That right

We are all first time voters in our very early 20s. :) I can't even pretend to be that on the internet. I remember some of the same words - mealy mouth - I think I know someone who troll rated him - me. For the same idiotic statement that Kerry is responsible for all Bush's actions.

I think I'll go back, find 472 and insist it is NOT Kerry, but him. He should have done more including move to Ohio!

[politicasista]

47. Tell good luck finding a suitable candidate

Gee why didn't Kerry work for Diebold and move to Ohio. :sarcasm:

[karynnj]

48. I posted to get the last word - here's my idiotic reply to his idiotic

post. It's amazing that he thinks we're young enough for this to be our first election. I wonder who he thinks we would admire if we were as old as say 50 or more. I just saw Clinton on the Daily Show and questioned nearly every sentence he said. After reading Kerry's speech today, all I can say is that Clinton wouldn't even have the insight of how much better a person Kerry is than he is.

Here it is:
"Gee, I can see why you were criticised - it is beyond unfair to state that Kerry is responsible for the hell that Bush created. It’s clear to me that he worked as hard as he could to win, although the election was stacked against him.

- In previous elections, a group known to be associated with one candidate which levelled outrageous charges against the other would have backfired. All the Navy records back Kerry, a historian’s book backed Kerry and Kerry’s people disproved a huge number of lies. Instead of taking the campaign sponsoring this to task the media played with it.

- The media failed to cover his rallies or his major speeches - other than the convention - to the degree that was normal in past elections.

- The government used terror warnings as political devises.

Oh - as to this being my first election - I have strong memories of canvassing for George McGovern and casting my first vote for him. I couldn’t have cast my first vote for Kerry then unless I lived near Lowell, MA, which I didn’t. I do feel flattered that you think that I and everyone else who though your comment went too far have fresh new ideas, that’s great to hear when you’re much older.

I think you should take your comments further. I think that maybe the fault is not Kerry’s but yours. I suspect that at sometime during the election you posted a whiny tirade because you were not happy with Kerry. This impacted all who read it - making all of them a little less effective. This rippled across the many inter-connected liberal boards. Your attitude was negative and it pulled others down - ultimately leading to less votes.

I hope you realize that you, yes you, are responsible for the world as it is. "

[whometense]

50. I think that's a GREAT response!

I love this part especially:

I think you should take your comments further. I think that maybe the fault is not Kerry’s but yours. I suspect that at sometime during the election you posted a whiny tirade because you were not happy with Kerry. This impacted all who read it - making all of them a little less effective. This rippled across the many inter-connected liberal boards. Your attitude was negative and it pulled others down - ultimately leading to less votes.

I hope you realize that you, yes you, are responsible for the world as it is.

I'm going to adopt that line of reasoning in the future, if you don't mind.

[karynnj]

51. I am really glad you liked it - because

it's something I likely would have chickened out and deleted here after posting - because we have an edit function. I was POed that he had the nerve to blame Kerry, after all Kerry subjected himself to, for the hell Bush created. (just like Teresa - "4 more years of Hell" very accurately said.)

I was especially annoyed because on Kos he said he was for Clark, who he said he didn't know if he could have made it through a grueling campaign.

(Also, everyone who saw the JK group in Boston can be forgiven for mistaking us for 19 year olds - I'm sure the waitress would have carded the lot of us if we ordered beer. :) )

[TayTay]

52. True Karyn

How true. It would be soooooo flattering to be carded again. LOL!

[kerrygoddess]

49. Thank you all!

Sorry to have dropped that an run!

You all rock!

[TayTay]

53. Interesting to see the Free Speech on that particular blog

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2172066

There are opinions that are across the board. This doesn't require a response and was posted for informational purposes.

[kerrygoddess]

54. Hmmm...

interesting... definately food for thought.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. So T Rex is not only a lying, swiftboating asshole...

... he's a racist. Nice.