I live on 40 acres, and want to be self-sufficient

[adigal]

I work, though, for 6 more years. I have done dog rescue, and still have 9 dogs, some with a prey drive, so the animals need to be safe behind fencing. I am interested in chickens, milk goats, angora goats and alpacas. We have all woods, and the soil is rocky as anything. No water, but we have a marshy area, and we may dig that out for a pond, about 150 by 100 feet.

I am looking for ways to do wind and solar for less money than companies want to set it up. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

[MineralMan]

1. If you do not already, subscribe to Mother Earth News.

It's hard to offer any suggestions, not knowing what part of the country you live in. Rocky soil will complicate self-sufficiency. Lots of hard work to correct that, but it can be done. What kind of woods? Again, not knowing where you are complicates people's ability to help.

[Old Codger]

2. Well

Without knowing where you are located it is a little difficult to give any real advice. we have 30 acres in Oregon, fairly mild climate. Retired now but did our thing for quite a while with greenhouses and selling produce, flowers and bedding plants at local growers markets....... made a decent living at it and enjoyed it quite a bit.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

3. You may not have to raise your own meat at all if you're in a rural area.

Just stick a block of salt in the back yard and see what comes around.
Salt Lick - it's like ordering delicious animals for delivery.

A few chickens will make ALOT of eggs. And if you like goat milk... they're easier and more self-sufficient than cows. Other than that you can't go wrong with a veggie garden.

[HereSince1628]

4. Check with your county about digging in a wet area...

I wanted to do that and was denied a permit. The rules obviously vary from place to place, but you wouldn't want to have to fill in your pond after you went to the expense to make it.

[adigal]

5. I am in the Adirondacks, NY

Zone 5A, cold. Our property cannot be logged for cash, it was logged about 30 years ago, mostly pines and birch on it now. Not much valuable wood.

I don't need meat, I am "almost" a vegetarian, we only eat chicken on occasion. No beef or pork. I could NOT kill my animals for meat unless it was a matter of survival.

Thanks for any help!!

[MineralMan]

6. That will make it more difficult, certainly.

Cold regions like yours have short growing seasons, and energy requirements are high during the cold months. Look around your area. Are there others who are managing self-sufficiency there? I'd tend to doubt it. Attaining self-sufficiency in such areas is always a marginal proposition. someone mentioned that marshy area and the problem you may have in altering it. I'd expect that you will not be allowed to dig it out for a pond. It will probably be classified as a wetland.

If you're really serious about self-sufficiency, you might want to strongly consider selling this property and buying property in a place that is more friendly to small farming. It's difficult enough to successfully operate a self-sufficient small farm without the additional difficulties of a cold climate. Many regions have similar land prices in rural areas, so making a move might be practical, assuming you own your property outright.

There are many, many things to consider. I'd check out some of the excellent books on the subject and read them carefully. There's a lot of planning to do.

You also mentioned solar and wind power. It's easy enough to do some limited-power projects on a tight budget, but anything more than that gets expensive very quickly. Heating water with solar can be very economical. Generating a couple of kilowatts with wind can be done cheaply, as well, using automotive components, but that's not enough for most people, and home-built systems are maintenance-intensive. Going completely off the grid and living with some sort of normal amenities is a very costly project.

I think it's time to start reading and thinking.

[demwing]

7. Chickens and Free Solar

Produce tons of eggs, meat, and just as importantly - fertilizer.

http://www.ehow.com/build-chicken-coop/

Chicken fertilzer is valuable because it is the highest in NPK (Nitrogen, Phosphoric acid, Potash) of any animal manure. Caution - it has to be composted first or it will burn your plants.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4897956_age-chicken-manure-use-compost.html

If your soil is rocky, try box gardens.

http://www.ehow.com/how_4780612_build-vegetable-garden-box.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_7560906_garden-rocky-soil.html
http://www.ehow.com/list_7529587_plants-grow-rocky-soil.html

There is a TON of information on Solar online:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2284756_obtain-solar-panels-free.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_7721556_build-cheap-solar-energy-systems.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_4842030_use-solar-energy.html
http://www.freesolarpanels.com/


This took me 5 minutes to compile. I'm sure you could do better with more time. Google is your best friend :)

[adigal]

8. Thank you, all, for your help

I appreciate the advice and pointers.
Adigal

[eilen]

9. I suggest you hook up with a local permaculture group

They can help you make decisions that are tailored to your particular climate and land features. Try St. Lawrence U, Paul Smith College, Tupper Lake.

http://upstatenypermaculture.net/
http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/

I think there are some courses open in Ithaca and in the FingerLakes on permaculture design. You may want to learn about forest gardens. There is much you can do where you are, I don't believe you need to move. It is a matter of using what you have intelligently. You can likely use a woodburning stove to keep warm in the winter and replant areas with fruit and nut trees, berry thickets. Perhaps you can harvest Maple syrup.

You can also host outdoorsmen type events-- hiking, camping, orienteering, etc.


I live in upstate NY and the Adirondacks are a beautiful place and part of our rich history.

[FedUpWithIt All]

10. I made a list of resources that have helped us.

Magazines...

Mother Earth News; Countryside Magazine; Backwoods Home; Gri;, Hobby farms; Plain; Country Smallholding and Small Farm Today

Online resources...

Homesteading Today; Backyard Chickens; Backyard Herds; The Walden Effect; Permies; and countless blogs are available from others making a similar move. The following page has some very good links as well...
http://www.allotment.org.uk/garden/Self_Sufficiency/index.php

Books...

Anything by John Seymour ie. "The Self Sufficient Life and How To Live It"

"Back to Basics: A Complete Guide to Traditional Skills, Third Edition"

"Self-Sufficiency: A Complete Guide to Baking, Carpentry, Crafts, Organic Gardening, Preserving Your Harvest, Raising Animals, and More! (Back to Basics Guides)"

"Homesteading: A Back to Basics Guide to Growing Your Own Food, Canning, Keeping Chickens, Generating Your Own Energy, Crafting, Herbal Medicine, and More (Back to Basics Guides)"

"Mini Farming: Self-Sufficiency on 1/4 Acre"

"The Complete Book of Self Sufficiency"

"Little Heathens: Hard Times and High Spirits on an Iowa Farm During the Great Depression"

"DIY Projects for the Self-Sufficient Homeowner: 25 Ways to Build a Self-Reliant Lifestyle"

"Root Cellaring: Natural Cold Storage of Fruits & Vegetables"

"Putting Food By (Plume)"

Video...

And BBC recently aired two TV series called "Edwardian Farm" and "Victorian Farm". The small clips we've seen are fascinating and we learned a ton from them. We're going to purchase the complete sets.


Oh and just for kicks, there is an old show from the 70's on Netflix called "Good Neighbors". It aired in England and was originally called "The Good Life" It was about an urban couple that decided to try self sufficiency. Fun program and it was comforting to see a mainstream source, even if decades old, showcasing this type of lifestyle.


:hi:

[adigal]

11. I think I misspoke...

I don't expect to be able to totally live off the land. I don't make clothes, don't tan hides, and won't eat my animals. I would like to be as self-sufficient as possible. We do have rescue dogs, who need a lot of care, and we have had horses on our property who died of old age, so we are experienced animal owners.


Gardening - we need more help with that!

[FedUpWithIt All]

12. Every person has their own vision of what that means to them personally.

Most of the resources given throughout the thread deal with all types of set ups. From Urban farming on 1/4 acre to smallholding and hobby farming, permaculture and even full out non-electric back in time and to the land types. Most of us have been sorting through these resources finding what works for our own individual circumstances. Go through some of the sources listed and you're sure to find some things that work for you.

I highly recommend the John Seymour books to anyone considering a move to greater independence even if it is on a minimal or casual scale. Very good book.

As to gardening, a hybrid of lasagna and square foot raised beds would work well on rocky soil if soil is composed carefully. There are fantastic books on both methods.

And don't forget to take a look at Backyard Chickens. It is a good mix of urban "pet" chicken owners, small farmers and those who keep a small flock for either eggs or meat. It is a diverse group and the information is very clear and helpful.

Best Wishes

[Inchworm]

13. A few groups here at DU may help

I find most of the people on DU really like helping people figure out ways to achieve goals. To me they help because it is an interactive experience :D

Gardening (a little slow this time of year)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=246

Cooking
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=236

DU Frugal and Energy Efficient Living Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=353

Hope this helps. They all sure help me ;)

Oh, two more... :hide:

Stories about drinking, kissing, and occasional wind breaking. It isn't uncommon to see pictures of kitties.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=105

Chickens, goats and land usage (snicker) :hide:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=268

:hi:
:yoiks:

[handmade34]

14. depends on your lifestyle

reduced consumption one part of becoming self-sufficient -

http://windspireenergy.com/applications/residential/

"Homes across the country are using wind power generated by Windspire wind turbines to generate clean renewable energy and offset their energy use. Only 30 feet tall and silent, the Windspires are designed to fit in well in urban and suburban areas. U.S. homeowners are eligible for a 30% federal tax credit off the total cost of the turbines including installation and available local rebates as much as $4,800 in some states."

rainwater collection
http://www.greenrightnow.com/weareaustin/2008/05/19/getting-water-wise-by-catching-the-rain/

composting toilets save in many ways
etc

[name removved]

15. Gosh, you're so lucky! What state do you live in?

Would you be able to garden year-round?

[bvar22]

16. It is a process. Take your time, and celebrate small accomplishments.

*It will cost twice as much,
Take 3 times as long,
And require 5 times as much labor.

*Start small and expand what works, especially in the Veggie Garden.
Trying to do too much the first year can be overwhelming, and takes the fun right out of it.
Reframe the goal from "As sustainable as possible"
to "More sustainable next year."

*County Extensions are great, but are financed by BIG Money, and occasionally push the latest Chem products.

*You can glean valuable nuggets by eavesdropping at the local Co-Op.

*Unless your local utility has a sell back capability, wind & solar are not worthwhile.
Without Sell back, you have to invest in a cumbersome, expensive, short life, very toxic, lead/acid battery storage on your property.
Our rural grid has no Sell Back capability,
so we focus on Passive Energy Efficiency.
(The Solar Hot Water system is next on the list.)

*Patience. Some things like Fruit Trees, Grapes, Asparagus, BlueBerries take YEARS to produce a decent crop.

*Buy BULK, and cook from scratch.
Can, Freeze, Dry as much as possible for Winter.

*Goats and Fruit Trees/Veggie Gardens don't mix.
Don't get goats until your fencing is Bomb Proof.

*Chickens are fun, easy, entertaining,
and have also proved to be the best source of Year Round healthy food in addition to great fertilizer for the veggies.
If there are predators around, build a very secure area/coop for the birds.
A mean/pugnacious Rooster will earn his keep if you let your birds Free Range.
Ours attacks anything that approaches his hens, even us.
We would have to get rid of him if we had kids,
but he DOES protect the hens.


*Neighbors are a valuable asset. They KNOW what grows/works well in your area,
and LOVE to talk about it, but sometimes get stuck in the box of "We've always done it this way".

*Neighbors (again). Your relationship with them is important. In rural areas some (most) of them will be hard core Republicans/Fundamentalists. It is best to avoid open, hostile opposition on political matters, but don't sacrifice your values. Finding Common Ground is easy (love for the area/love for the land), and indirect methods produce the best results when dealing with deeply ingrained belief systems.

When we arrived here, we joined the local Rural Volunteer Fire Dept.
We kept our mouths shut, attended training, took care not to step on any toes, always showed up,
got sweaty & dirty, carried more than our share of the load, and the other members soon accepted us as "good people".
Everybody in this area has some connection through the Fire Dept,
and when YOU show up when somebody needs help, they tend to "accept" you.
Our connection to the Fire Dept, and the local people in it, has quickly opened doors that would have been tightly closed without it.
In rural areas, it IS who you know,
and everybody wants to talk about the last fire.
(This is not for everybody, but merely an example of one way to integrate yourself with the rural community.)

*(repeat)Start Small, and expand/improve what works,
but don't be afraid to experiment, or to fail.


My wife & I started down the Sustainable/Organic path in 2006.
It is a process.

Next year, we will !CONSUME! even less.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x2601

[Kali]

17. REALLY good advice!

:thumbsup:

[junkyard angel]

18. Can you recommend any clear books

for the absolute newbie to read?

[jwirr]

19. BackHome has a great plan for wind. I got it for subscribing. I do not

know how good it is but it is worth a look.

[Dover]

20. Goats are great....BUT

if pasturing is not managed well, they can leave your land looking like a moonscape with all kinds
of repercussions to your goal of sustainability. Rotating pastures is just one solution (with serious attention to strong fences), as well as keeping the proper number of animals for your land size.

So be sure to consider and/or get fully educated about how each of your endeavors impacts the big picture and works holistically. That is the primary lesson of sustainable living practice.

[newfie11]

25. Yep they do tend to escape easily

and beware neighboring dogs, coyotes, cougar, etc that can kill them.

[triguy46]

21. By self sufficient do you mean energy wise?

Or do you intend to grow/raise food and develop some means to get a little cash? Your description of your 40 acres would make agricultural self sufficiency daunting.

[adigal]

22. I would like to grow most of my food, if I could

I would definitely need a greenhouse, as it is zone 5 up here.

[AnneD]

23. Contact your local agricultural extension agent....

People tend to forget they exist. When I first moved to a high elevation, I had cooking issues. As I did not have Internet there....they sent me a ton of info not only about growing things but home economics (cooking and canning) for higher elevations. They were life savers.

[Name removed]

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