Anyone who knows/was a child who never received religious indoctrination? How do they feel now?

[pink-o]

Just curious. I am an agnostic now, but even up till 15 years ago I thought there might be a "creator". I was raised by an Orthodox Jewish father, whose own grandfather was the Dean of Rabbis in Baltimore, and an atheist mother, whose own grandmother was a strict Calvinist fundie from Leeds, Yorkshire. My mom's father was an atheist as well, but sent her to the United Church in Calgary just for social reasons. So Mom sent my sister and me to Methodist Sunday School for a few years for the same reason.

I know, WTF????

Anyway, my religious upbringing had very little to do with either the old or the new testament, but I was still steered away from science and logic when it came to explaining the origins of the universe. Whatever conflicts might occur between the mythology and scientific reality were dismissed with the inevitiable "God works in mysterious ways" crap.

I have known for years that "religion" was all about brainwashing and indoctrination, but for a long time I held onto the myth of a "spiritual path" Even with an atheist mother! So my question is: Are children who're told FROM THE VERY BEGINNING that religion is superstition--do they still adhere to scientific principles, or do some embrace religion? I'd love to hear the statistics of that--because I don't think very many kids are brought up atheist. I should have been, but wasn't--and it took me till my forties to finally reject the mythology!

[More Than A Feeling]

1. I was raised in a 100% secular household. You can read my story here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=173891&mesg_id=173982

[Warpy]

2. Most kids, religious or secular, are exposed to the idea

of a big daddy in the sky by other kids, at the very least. Most kids get into that "afraid not to believe" mindset where they are afraid to question that very basic notion because they know it will lead to social ostracism.

I survived Catholic school. I rejected the whole business while I was still in grammar school, thanks to a series of priests and nuns whose take on spirituality can be best described as fucking nuts and to the hardness of the marble floor in a series of churches where I spent class time on my knees for rebelliousness.

I just never found anybody at the other end of the prayer line and was too honest to pretend that I did.

Both my parents died unbelievers. It took my dad until the end to come out as an agnostic, but he did eventually.

I once asked my agnostic mother why she'd packed me off to Catholic school when she didn't believe any more of it than I did. Her answer, "I just wanted you to have all the disadvantages I did."

[goddess40]

3. I raised my boys as atheists

one (he's 19)is now a methodist - it's a girl thing that I hope is temporary. His father converted from catholicism to be a Lutheran when in high school for some girl and he is now agnostic, so there's hope.

The 15 year old is atheist and we have recently joined the Universilist Unitarian church which supports our beliefs so I think he'll be a life long atheist.

My boys are both on the autism spectrum (high functioning) so they have social issues and I think church is much friendlier place than school -- actually I know it's a friendlier and safer place than school. I only wish I had joined the UU earlier so maybe could have avoided the older son's joining the methodist church.

[lizerdbits]

4. I had a secular upbringing

We did xmas for presents, I was about 8 before I knew about that it was supposed to be Jesus's birthday. Ironic since we were sent to vacation bible school sometimes in elementary school at the local methodist and baptist churches, mainly because some of our friends went there and it was more of fun socializing in the summer.

My parents were shipped to catholic school and didn't want us to endure that. My mom's side of the family has some pretty hard core believers but on my dad's side it's mostly just my Grandmother now, he and his sister are pretty much agnostic after catholic school. Then there's his brother who's pretty fire and brimstone now. Apparently he found Jesus after a couple DUI convictions and license suspension. Maybe the 5 marriages had something to do with it.

I'm glad now I was raised that way. I think it's hard for a lot of people to go from religion to logic, it's tough to let go of myths that comfort especially in tough times like death of loved ones. I'd love to believe I'll see others in magical happy land after dying but I have no reason to believe that it's true so I don't believe it. It's hard to imagine being surrounded by a belief system for most of your life, especially childhood when we are so trusting and assume it's all true, and then abandoning it. Rough transition for hard core believers.

[pink-o]

5. Yeah, we also had Christmas at my house. My father had no problem embracing it.

..At least, the secular trappings of it! (It's a pagan holiday anyway). Personally, I love shopping for gifties for all my friends and family, so I have nothing against that particular commerical aspect of it.

But I think you're right--it's hard for a lot of people to give up the comfortable mythology that they're special and a perfect being created them in his image and angels will look after them all their lives. I finally jettisoned the last vestiges of superstition for this reason:

I still believed that love came from God. I saw the bonds that humans formed, and I couldn't see the same intimacy or connection in other animals. But then, in my forties, my hormones started going haywire, and I realised all our emotions come from the amygdala and are hormonally influenced--including love!!! Ha Ha--cosmic joke's on me, huh??

Not that I'm negating love--it's made me happier and sadder than any other emotion. But it's biochemistry, not divinely infused!!!

[goddess40]

9. we did christmas too

it was family time and an excuse to bring the extended family together - even if my sister makes a birthday cake for Jesus and she and her kids sing happy birthday. No kidding, but they won't do a christmas tree because of some goofy born-again bullshit.

Don't even get me started on the BS about halloween.

[enlightenment]

6. I raised my son in a secular household

but as Warpy pointed out, he was exposed to religious ideas from school chums. I allowed him the option of exploring that avenue (against my better judgement) and he spent about half a year wandering from one idea to another. At the end of that time, he lost interest in things woo woo.

It is difficult to teach children that religion is superstition - the very concept of superstition is quite complex, if you think about it. I think it's more important to teach children to think, and when they are of an age, to think critically. Taught to do that, most people will reject superstition simply because it makes no sense.

[Deep13]

7. Parents were intermittently religious.

The were divorced. By high school, Dad was an atheist and Mom and the step monster were a kind of Fundy variety of Catholic. Frankly, nothing good came out of it.

My wife's brother's children are getting the Catholic brain washing. She keeps them away from us so we can't "confuse" them.

[TZ]

8. I was raised as a secular Jew

We practiced the traditions but never went big into the whole God thing. However, my mother thought we should be at least exposed to religion so we could make our own choices what to believe and what to not believe. She took us to UU Sunday School (which was mostly composed of holding hands and singing songs).
There are three of us, and while none of us are particularly religious (I think I'm the only outright atheist of the three) I'm also the only scientifically oriented one. The other two...I wouldn't call them believers in God so much as not so much adhering to scientific principles. One can be without religion and still not embrace scientific principles.

[dropkickpa]

10. I was raised in an atheist household

My mother was raised a strict Catholic, and Dad was raised Prebyterian, but lackadaisically. His mum was excommunicated from the Catholic church back in the '30s (she divorced her first husband because he was an asshole). She started doing the presby thing when she started dating my grampa, but they both rarely attended church after they got married (neither one felt a strong need to). After he died, Gramma would go to church, mostly for the social aspect of it and because she enjoyed singing in the choir. When she remarried, she supposedly became a Methodist (that's what Dick was, his name was appropriate), but never went to their church because the choir wasn't as fun, so she went back to the presby churh. She doesn't even bother going to church now, she says her singing has gone to crap (she's 90) so there no reason to go.

Mom's family was strict Catholic, they NEVER ate meat on Fridays (still usually don't), etc. Grandma and Grampa (before he died), were horrified when they found out that 1. none of us kids were baptised and 2. we were all athiests. Grandma still gives me in particular shit about that (none of the rest of my siblings has gone to visit her in more than 10 years, so they avoid it, and I am now refusing to go, too).

I've only been to sunday church services maybe 8 times in my life, mostly with friends as a kid, and I went to all sorts of churches. I went to Baha'i, Presby, Catholic, methodist, and couple of other services. All seemed to me, to be perfectly honest, like a bunch of hogwash. Having 6 kids, my parents didn't think it was necessary to send us to church stuff just for the social aspect of it, not to mention they didn't want us to be indoctrinated into any of it. One of my brothers has buddhist leanings, but without the religious part, if that makes any sense, and another has actually been exploring Astaru. The rest of us are totally non-religious.

Even with 2 brothers that make their lives as artists (the two mentioned above), science was always presented to us as a valuable thing to learn about, and we were taught to question things that we are asked to "take on faith". I'm the scientifically inclined kid, but we *all* have an interest in it.

What I've always found to be funny is that me and my siblings have a very strict moral code based on the principles of "make the best of what you've got, cuz this is all there is". The vast majority of the time, it's a lot more strict than our friends who are "believers" and were raised that way. Kinda nullifies the whole "religion is what gives humans morality" argument I hear all the time from fundies.

With my daughter, it's been tough because my best friend is a fundie (I know, I know, but she's really intelligent otherwise and wasn't always this way!), and I've had to be careful of Dropkid spending time with her kids, because they'll sometimes spout "Jesus is great!!" crap at her. BUT, my friend respects my views, and works with her kids to keep them from doing that (but the fundie nature of their church makes it hard for her to rein her kids in sometimes). Dropkid is not allowed to spend the night on Saturdays because I won't allow her to go to their church on Sunday morning. It can be particularly difficult at the age she is right now (7) because of the "joiner" nature of this age group, and, even though Dropkid is usually fiercly independant, she still sometimes wants to "fit in" and do what the other kids are doing.

[and-justice-for-all]

11. I feel just fine...nt

[pink-o]

12. Thanks for all the interesting stories, you guys! Please keep 'em coming! n/t

[MedleyMisty]

13. I didn't get any kind of indoctrination

My mother was very hands-off. The only rule I ever had was a bed time up until around sixth grade or so.

My father died when I was in first grade. I don't remember if he was religious or not - somehow I doubt it. I know that he taught me to play chess when I was two and that he loved me and that he was a good man. My mother says that I'm a lot like him - he was also an introvert who loved nature and loved to learn.

Actually, I was never told that religion was superstition so I don't know if I qualify. I was never "told" anything - except that when people talk about other people they're talking about themselves, men like to think they're being important and telling you what to do so just nod and smile and then go do what you wanted to do, and that I could always come home if a man hit me - my mother's first husband was abusive and her father wouldn't let her come home, so that was a big deal to her.

When religion did come up, my mother said that Grandma believed that your world ended when you died and that she believed that humans were born good and that when we died we all went to the Happy Hunting Grounds.

We had a children's Bible - actually it's still around, I saw it in my old bedroom when I went up there for Memorial Day. I read it when I was around four or five and it just felt extremely wrong - like the events made no logical sense and couldn't have possibly happened and the God dude was terribly mean and did some things that were morally wrong. Then in first grade I learned about dinosaurs, and that was it for me.

I do like the result internally, but I think it's why I have such trouble empathizing with people and sometimes come off as judging them and looking down on them and stuff - I don't understand being indoctrinated and tend to think that people choose their beliefs consciously and knowingly and willingly. And so I am rather harsh and don't give anyone any slack for the culture they grew up in or what their parents thought or what the TV tells them to think or what's "socially acceptable". I will admit that it's because I don't understand it - I can empathize a bit if I compare it to a person born into wealth not understanding poverty.

At the basic level, I think the difference is fear. I won the nature/nurture birth lottery, if not the financial birth lottery. So I was born with a good amount of developmental potential and then I had the perfect environment to develop that potential - I knew that my mother loved me unconditionally and that I was safe and wanted and accepted for who I was, whoever that turned out to be.

Is it possible that maybe people need an imaginary daddy in the sky because they didn't get that from their parents? Because all the good stuff that people say they get from religion - I understand that because I feel it too. Only for me it's grounded in reality, not myth. I also don't get the whole "comfort" thing people say - like sometimes I'll see a fellow atheist talking about how they wish they could believe because it's comforting or whatever. I don't get that - I think that it has something to do with death and meaninglessness. I'm not afraid of death and I create my own meaning.

Going to bed now.

[Sabriel]

14. I've never been to church, never believed in a diety

Well, I've been IN a church, but not TO church, if you know what I mean.

My parents just never did anything at all about religion. They're not atheists themselves, but we never talked about it, and we never did anything, other than having a tree and carols at Christmas.

I've mentioned to people that I've never been to church, and they look at me like I'm E.T., except for the the Catholic guy who commented, "Lucky."