The Four Horsemen video - Dawkins, Harris, Dennett, Hitchens

[ozone_man]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-869630813464694890

Dec 14, 2007

I'm watching this now as I surf the net. I recommended watching it. It would be nice to see a woman in on the discussion, to offer their perspectives on religion that men can't talk to.

[PassingFair]

1. I certainly could have added a thing or two to the conversation!

:evilgrin:

[ozone_man]

2. I bet you could!

It was nice to watch this talk in a casual setting, having a drink, Hitchens smoking. But it seemed like a woman would have added another dimension. So much suppression of women by the church over the years.

[funflower]

3. Four big important white guys talkin' about how Xianity has messed up our society....

Kind of ironic in a way.

While you wouldn't catch these guys overtly preaching sexism, it seems they suffer from the same clueless blindness to female intelligence that you're likely to see at the local church or mosque. Just saying you don't believe in ancient religious-based sexism doesn't solve the problem, because these men are where they are in part because of the advantages they've had throughout their lives and careers thanks to our societal sexism. If the "HorseMEN" really want to overcome the effects of religion on our society, they're going to have to think outside the easy, old-boys-club box and actively reach out to empower women, despite the fact that it might be less comfortable at first than just going with the (Biblically-inspired) status quo.

[ozone_man]

4. This woman author (Ayaan Hirsi Ali) seems very interesting .

In this profoundly affecting memoir from the internationally renowned author of The Caged Virgin, Ayaan Hirsi Ali tells her astonishing life story, from her traditional Muslim childhood in Somalia, Saudi Arabia, and Kenya, to her intellectual awakening and activism in the Netherlands, and her current life under armed guard in the West.One of today's most admired and controversial political figures, Ayaan Hirsi Ali burst into international headlines following an Islamist's murder of her colleague, Theo van Gogh, with whom she made the movie Submission.Infidel is the eagerly awaited story of the coming of age of this elegant, distinguished -- and sometimes reviled -- political superstar and champion of free speech. With a gimlet eye and measured, often ironic, voice, Hirsi Ali recounts the evolution of her beliefs, her ironclad will, and her extraordinary resolve to fight injustice done in the name of religion. Raised in a strict Muslim family and extended clan, Hirsi Ali survived civil war, female mutilation, brutal beatings, adolescence as a devout believer during the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, and life in four troubled, unstable countries largely ruled by despots. In her early twenties, she escaped from a forced marriage and sought asylum in the Netherlands, where she earned a college degree in political science, tried to help her tragically depressed sister adjust to the West, and fought for the rights of Muslim immigrant women and the reform of Islam as a member of Parliament. Even though she is under constant threat -- demonized by reactionary Islamists and politicians, disowned by her father, and expelled from her family and clan -- she refuses to be silenced.Ultimately a celebration of triumph over adversity, Hirsi Ali's story tells how a bright little girl evolved out of dutiful obedience to become an outspoken, pioneering freedom fighter. As Western governments struggle to balance democratic ideals with religious pressures, no story could be timelier or more significant.

http://books.google.com/books?id=70vIJVnOOpIC&dq=inauthor:Ayaan+inauthor:Hirsi+inauthor:Ali

Sam Harris has been involved in securing her safety.

http://www.samharris.org/site/security_trust/

My wife is reading Infidel now and is quite impressed by her life story. While the "Four Horseman" write analytically about religion, this woman has lived it all first hand and survived to tell her story.

[funflower]

5. Yes! And courageous! There are lots of amazing women involved in the "rational" movement.

Julia Sweeney and the leaders of most of the major US atheist organizations come to mind.

Maybe it's just the media that seems to constantly shine the light on the guys . I'd bet most Americans have no clue who Ayaan Hirsi Ali is.