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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:32 PM
Original message
We are done - this country
is going to hell in a hand basket with no way out. Everyone, say hello to President McCain. I'm just about done here, any criticism of St. Obama and you are called a bigot. Unbelievable. If he gets the nomination, the swift boating will be fast, furious and effective. I'm speechless, disappointed and feel just sick.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. done we are, and done is good
Edited on Mon Mar-17-08 10:13 PM by Two Americas
It won't work. Our thinking, our approaches, and our ideas have all failed. Our premises and assumptions were in error. What we have been trying to do will never succeed. Realizing that it is done is liberating, and will allow us to rebuild with free hands and hearts, with renewed energy and purpose.

Yes, it is done. The whole thing is finished; it is over - and we should not kid ourselves by thinking that modern liberalism is not part of what is done - part of that illusion about America that is finished now, and we should not fool ourselkves into believing that modern liberalism is not something that has also failed and that we must now abandon. We see the stark evidence of the complete failure of modern liberalism and the Democratic party every day right here, on almost every thread. We can also faintly see the embers glowing here and there that will someday soon spread again into a raging fire of justice and freedom.

We cannot elect this or that savior, or tinker with this or that detail, or change our personal lifestyles, or make different choices, or improve ourselves, or expect to "work within the system" and accomplish anything but postponement of the inevitable which will only increase the suffering in the meanwhile.

It is time to let go and re-think everything. People are desperately hanging on for dear life to outmoded ideas and approaches. Let go. Encourage everyone else to let go.

"The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country." - Lincoln

It is easy to see the inadequate dogmas that the other person is clinging to. Do we have the courage to look at our own? We have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

The Democratic party is like a withered and rotting corpse propped up in the corner. We keep trying to breathe life into it, we talk to it, we pretend it is alive. But every day the smell gets worse and worse.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Wow - that's it in a nutshell.
Thanks, Two Americas, we are in need of a revolution. Everything that I have believed in as being a Democrat rings hollow in the current landscape. The rejection of John Edwards was the beginning of the end for me. I can only hope he will come forward with something that will really wake the country up, and I believe him to be capable of doing that.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. "Let go. Encourage everyone else to let go. "
Yes, let go of the rot: it's freeing!!

My only problem is in making myself not proclaim this on DU, as it only brings out the vitriol in those hanging on for dear life.

Bring out the barricades, friends.

It's time.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes it is -
I still feel Edwards is going to have something to say, and what ever it may be, I know it will be good.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I was shocked and grieved when Edwards suspended.....
Now, I find that I'm just not engaged in the whole process.

If he "says something", fine. If he doesn't, more fine.

I truly believe the end has come for this whole system as it is.

It won't be a peaceful death, because so many are holding on to the "hope" (sorry, that isn't meant to be a dig) that it can be resurrected.

Liberalism has failed.

Most don't yet want to see that.

The longer it takes to grasp that, the more ugly and painful the death.

I don't really see there's much Edwards can do or say to change that now.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I know, but I think he may go the way of Gore.
Al Gore has become a very effective champion for the planet, it may very well be Edwards will take a similar role as an advocate for the poor. John Edwards got me interested in politics again, his passion became mine because he touched on every reason of why I chose the Democratic party as my own so many years ago - that party doesn't exist anymore, no more than what the Republicans used to call theirs either. A change is coming, I can almost feel it, and it doesn't have St. Obama written all over it.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. this year
"A change is coming, I can almost feel it."

I think it happens this year - big changes. It is much bigger than any race for political office.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. do you see any direction that is taking.....?
I"m really curious about that.

And, frightened, too, of course. I'm so tenuous.

I cheer the crash, but I know I'll suffer even more.

I don't have a clue what the changes will look like.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. that's what I'm hoping he will do! I hope he's sharpening his power-point skills!
:) :) :) ) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

It's time... it's waaaay PAST time.

This cause has died on the vine, with the help of Dems, too, for 20 years now.

It's time.

If Edwards is the one to do it, then he has my undying gratitude!

HOWEVER, I also think it will take ALL of us, and I don't see many ready to form that movement.

What I do know, is what I tried to talk about at DU in '04, after the Kerry disaster. EDUCATION!

As I said in another post, we haven't touched hearts. We haven't preached beyond the choir.

"We" being the Dems, liberals, progressives... we don't know who we are. We're splintered beyond any hope to work together. One faction doesn't want to listen to another one, and NONE Of 'em want to listen to poor people. Until all the factions decide to care about each other, and LISTEN and work together, nothing will change.

AND... until we can work together and then start helping the 'murkin public to understand the REAL issues, we are nowhere.

All I can do is try to bring some understanding to my little corner.

Poverty.

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. wish I could express what I see coming
As always, I can see the future in big non-verbal symbols and movements but it is hard to put into words. Especially here at DU where every single word you choose gets analyzed to death, you know, and jumped on?

The factions, and the inability to get people on the same page - we never will be able to resolve that, and it is a good thing that we can't because all of the causes of all of the factions are based on the same false premises. We think we are recruiting people or converting people or selling people into a pro-active program, as though the "default" position were a level playing field, or OK, or standard, or normal, or sustainable. That is backwards. The problem is not that we cannot inspire people to pro-actively do positive things, the problem is people's resistance to seeing the negative - the dangerous path we are on. That means that collapse and disintegration and warring factions is a good thing, not a bad thing. We need to recognize and stop doing the very destructive things we are doing, not come up with positive things to do. All of the do-good liberalism is based on the false notion that things are more or less OK, that we just need a few minor tweaks, that there are just a few problems - a few homeless people that we can help and everything will be fine - or if we just end the war than we can go back to the good times, or if we can get corporations to do "socially-responsible things"..... It is all an illusion. People like the "good" part of the illusion and are desperately hanging on to it - we just elect some Democrats and support the right causes and make the right choices and try to be a good person who cares and so forth. It is so easy to see what is wrong with "them" over there - it is all the Republicans fault! - and so painful and difficult to see our own errors, our own complicity, our own cowardice, our own depravity.

Before the physical realities of war and bombing civilians, of torture and abuse, of a collapsing economy, of homelessness and poverty—before these obvious physical signs appear—and they are everywhere now and just screaming at us—there are attitudes, there are premises and assumptions. That is where the battle is. It is a straight line directly from the way that people right here talk to and about homeless people and poor people into the atrocities in Iraq. Read what people write here everyday and it is obvious that these people—all of us—are living in a society that is capable of terrible oppression and abuse, that is a society that could torture and cage human beings, that could reign bombs down on poor villagers, that could admire and emulate those who are lying, cheating, bullying and stealing. It isn't just happening in the White House or the halls of Congress, it isn't just happening in Iraq, it isn’t just coming from a few bad apples. It is all around us, everywhere, every day, in every thing we do, in everything we see, and think and say.

We are in a very dark place. We are experiencing first hand what it is like to live inside of a society that has gone mad, that has headed down that horrible path of hatred and brutality and inhumanity.

It is all rotten to the core. We know this because we can know the tree by the fruit, because the objective evidence is so overwhelming that this is so and can be found everywhere we look. Look around — this is what it looks like from the inside of an unfolding catastrophic global nightmare, this is what it looks like when things have gone very, very wrong and when almost any sort of cataclysm or horror has now become very possible. What people are lacking is not “solutions” or “plans” or “theories” let alone "hope" - they need clarity, they need honesty, they mneed coursage, they need compassion - they need to face the truth about what is, not argue about what should be.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. We have met the enemy......
Yes, I've been trying to say we need to look to ourselves for years now, and .....

.................my flame-insulation is burned to a crisp.

When we don't want to look at ourselves, the outcome is inevitable.

:cry:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. REVOLUTION By "The People" Is What I Feel Is Needed.... But The
I've felt that way for WAAAAAY too long now! Every time I listen to John Lennon when he sings... Revolution, Revolution, everyone's talking bout Revolution... I think back to a time WHEN IT WAS POSSIBLE!

I have begun to use the word "hate" in some of my conversations, and that's NOT a word I ever ever want to use. But, unless we RISE UP, our "goose" is cooked!

JMHO!
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. The question is: what is the plan? If you are not part of the problem are you a part
of the solution?

It took women 72 years of fighting and advocacy to win the right to vote. They started a movement.

Who would you nominate to start the revolution you yearn for; the revolution you continue to interject into your posts?

Who is YOUR hero, the figurehead of your movement, your leader?

The absoluteness of your assessment is poetic, and paints a picture so grim that I almost bought into your doctrine of the failure of liberalism.

I am of the mind that our political system can be repaired, and needs to start with a coalition of goodwill and an abandonment of personal agendas.



John Edwards threw down the gauntlet and asked people to join him in his effort toward political reform. I have not given up on him; however, until and if he decides, I will move on to find others who share my values.

Being critical without offering substance is easy. Saying is not doing.

I once worked for a psychotherapist who would ask "if you gave up your anger, would you disappear?" If you stop being angry, then what would you be?

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's time to stop looking for a hero, a leader.
WE are the ones we've been looking for, and the sooner we realize that, the sooner we'll get to some real solutions.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Psst Hope....
I so agree with you. :hug: Just read GDP threads for 15 minutes...lol.

I worked for McCain in 2000. Edwards brought me back in 2004. McCain is no Edwards, so that leaves us with......? Sucks, doesn't it :cry:

Sidebar: I'm rooting for Hillary, though I won't work or donate to her campaign during the primaries, I may, if she's the nominee :patriot:
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Thank you C -
:hug:
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. We are "done" if we nominate or elect this racist Obama. I feel
sick that the "so called" Democratic party forced Edwards to step aside for this disingenuous fake.
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