what makes a good music store?

[toddzilla]

What brings you into a store?

what brings you back?

what drives your high-end gear purchases?

how important is price over service?




I manage a guitar shop, and want to know!

[Ron Green]

1. Service. It's the only thing a local store has got that can't be had

online. I don't see how you're going to keep people from going online for big-ticket items, unless you've developed some loyalty through good service. Probably in most cases, you'll lose those people anyway, if you can't come close to the online price. Retail customers are so fickle.

[jpgray]

2. Service, personality and atmosphere. And above all that, trust (nt)

[paulk]

3. a salesman who knows more about the gear than I do

I'm mainly into electronic music, and that's rarely the case - especially horrible places like Guitar Center.

I do play guitar, though. I've even been thinking about getting a new, better acoustic - and if I do pull the trigger, I'm definately going to a small place (probably like yours). I'm willing to pay more for service when it comes to things like guitars. There's a couple of small shops right nearby - one thing that will be an influence is how long the shops have been in business.

As far as sales technique, something that always turned me off was a saleguy who was more interested in showing off his licks than selling something. This happened a lot when looking at electronic keyboards. The salesman wouldn't have the first clue about how to program the damn thing, but he sure could do a decent imitation of Kieth Emerson!

[toddzilla]

4. heh

i'm very low key as a salesperson. i'll offer to demo something if i can tell the person is nervous about playing. if there is a choice of guitars or amps that a person is looking at, i'll explain the featuresm, pros/cons of each model, then leave them to check em out on their own and just drop in every few mins to see that they are doing ok. If need be i'll a/b the models for them so they can hear it. it's really difficult because i'm trying to find a balance between being so non-agressive that i can't "push" a sale, but not pushy to where it turns people off.

we do offer really good service, i change single strings for free, neck adjustments and things like that are rarely charged for. It takes time to get known as a good store and we are only about a year old.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. OK Todd, Here's My List

1) I don't want to take food out of the mouth of the owner/operator, but i don't want to get shafted. Set the prices fair. Don't make the dickering an important part of the deal, unless you're prepared to offer a really great deal to a good negotiator.

2) Offer every piece of gear ready to play. Guitars should be set and dressed. Now, if you're selling a $99 Epiphone or Squire, all bets are off. But anything over about 4 bills should nave no rough frets, should be fully intonated, bridge and pickups adjusted properly, and if a floating bridge, springs should be set to create proper pull. I don't want to buy a $900 guitar and then have to take it home and do 3 hours of work to make it work the way it should.

3) Leave me alone when i'm looking, unless i ask. Once i ask, unless you're busy with another customer, we talk NOW! I know sometimes people can be hacks and you would be worried about whether they're playing a guitar or playing with it! But, you should be able to tell who can talk the talk and immediately determine real deal or poseur. Leave the real deals alone. Let them make their own decisions. Once again, any guitar sales person that thinks i'm going to drop $500 - $2k on a guitar without playing it for a half-hour is kidding themselves.

4) Have good repair/mod services. Don't have to be in-house, but a list of the right people for the right jobs would be great. If you're into high line guitars, i'd even have an amp hotrodder somewhat local that you can establish a pipeline with.

5) Don't hide the effects. Anybody who would buy an effect without trying one is such an easy sale they don't need service at all.

6) Put the amps in a separate room, or at least behind some sort of barrier. That way people wanting to try them out won't be self-conscious about volume. At least have a hideaway like that for serious folks trying out serious stuff.

7) Lastly, make the place a welcome mat for players. I like going to places where i feel free just to come in and say hi! Play a couple new guitars. Chew the fat. And then be able to walk out, without buying anything, but not feeling guilty. I suppose that's a service issue, too.

The Professor

[toddzilla]

6. all very valid..

i think you'd like my store. although our floor space is limited so we can't really have a seperate area for trying stuff out, it's not too crowded (unfortunately!)

the funny thing is you can never tell who is a "player" and who isn't, and honestly from a business/retail standpoint, it makes NO difference as to whether they will buy something or not. i've sold more high-end gear to people that are not good players than to those that are.

i do spend alot of time tweaking necks and setting up the store guitars so they play well, although it's very, very hard to keep 80+ guitars in tune and everything. it's also very difficult to keep higher end guitars accessible because people are utterly clueless about how careful you need to be with a $2000+ axe. everyone wants to try out everything, but they don't want to actually buy anything that has the slightest pick scratch on it.

we do have a minimum level of acceptable quality, you won't see any new guitars for 99 bucks here, and we only have one model of acoustic that doesn't have a solid top, and we mostly rent those.


The hardest thing about it is that we want to attract the players and people who like and appreciate high end gear, but it's hard to reach them.

anyway, thanks for the input, i try to run it like i've always imagined a shop should be.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Too Bad I Don't Live Around There

I'd hang out in your shop if i lived there!

As far as tuning the guitars, that's not what i meant. I never expect all of them to be in tune. Guitars just don't cooperate that way. Strings stretch, wood changes shape, and all that. I just don't like going to a store and picking up an $800 guitar and feel that it needs 2 hours worth the work. That's inexcusable, to me.

But, g'luck on the shop.
The Professor

[MazeRat7]

12. Sounds like you run a good shop....

While I can not speak for guitar players that purchase high-end gear, I can speak for keyboards. Myself and most of the top players I know, rarely "shop" for a keyboard. Generally we have a specific set of functions in mind and have already done the research long before going to a store. By the time I actually get to a store, I pretty much know the make and model I plan to purchase and all that remains is to play it and negotiate price + add-ons (case, cables, whatever).

This has to suck for store owners. If they dont have that high-end Kurzweil or Korg or whatever (rack models included) in stock, they loose the sale. If they do, they may have to sit on it for months before making the sale.

However, all that being said - 9 times out of 10 I throw my business to a locally owned company and am willing to pay a slightly higher price for the convenience of purchasing locally and having local service in the unlikely event something does not work. I am fortunate living in a "music town". I have never not been able to purchase the exact make/model I wanted on the day I went to the stores cash in hand.

MZr7

[emulatorloo]

8. My list

1. be able to answer my questions.

2. don't try to charge me list price. Be fair.

3. don't bug me when I'm looking

4. don't bug me/go all chatty when I am trying an instrument out

5. provide me with decent headphones if I want them to check a keyboard out

6. If I come in for a guitar, don't try to sell me an african drum (seriously, this happened to me, and variations of it several times)

7. have a great service dept

[dean_dem]

9. When it doesn't have a bunch of...

fifteen year olds trying to play "Enter Sandman" on the guitar at top volume over and over again. That usually helps.

Seriously though, I like it when the salesperson is just helpful and knowledgable, without the attitude. You know the type: there's nothing worse than musician egos, and when you musician salesman egos, all they want to do is show off. It annoys the crap out of me when I ask to see something, and the salesman is playing the damn guitar more than I am. It's only to show off, and it doesn't impress me. I always avoid those stores.

[chaska]

10. Here's mine.

I hate that loud canned music music crap. Guitar Center can kiss my ass.

Price is everything.

Must not be corporate.

I want closed off booths where I can try a piece out at something above a whisper. Okay, you got me. I really just don't want to have to listen to all the wankers. Put THEM in the booth.

Saleman leave me alone unless I ask for help. All I want is a greeting when I enter with a "let me know if I can help you" and a see ya later when I leave (if I'm not buying).

And please don't pander. I hate when salesmen come up and tell me how well I play, and then then do the same thing to some other guy who sux.

I want to feel welcome to come in and play whatever instrument I want without feeling pressure to buy.

I know more than you about this piece of equipment. What's wrong with this picture?

How about a token lefty instrument that's worth playing in every store.

Why do I spend all of my time tuning guitars when I go to a music store? Why can't someone who works there do that on a regular basis? And while you're at it, what's with all the crud on the strings?

Why do music stores never carry anything interesting or cutting edge?

[toddzilla]

11. well...

I hate that loud canned music music crap. Guitar Center can kiss my ass.


****I generally play blues or light jazz, classic rock, nothing heavy.

Price is everything.
****Price IS everything, but service costs money, trained experienced employees cost money. If you expect guitar center pricing with local shop knowledge and friendliness, get a clue.

Must not be corporate.

***(see guitar center..

I want closed off booths where I can try a piece out at something above a whisper. Okay, you got me. I really just don't want to have to listen to all the wankers. Put THEM in the booth.

*****sorry, no room for that, but i will ask someone to turn down if they are interfering with other people trying things out.

Saleman leave me alone unless I ask for help. All I want is a greeting when I enter with a "let me know if I can help you" and a see ya later when I leave (if I'm not buying).

*****i always do

And please don't pander. I hate when salesmen come up and tell me how well I play, and then then do the same thing to some other guy who sux.

******If i tell you that you play well, it's because you do, if you suck, i just don't say anything, at least until you leave, then i make fun of you. :silly: :silly:

I want to feel welcome to come in and play whatever instrument I want without feeling pressure to buy.



I know more than you about this piece of equipment. What's wrong with this picture?

******Memorize the 200 pieces of gear in the store and be able to program all the effects at a moments notice.. I do my best, but realistically it's not possible.

How about a token lefty instrument that's worth playing in every store.
*** Lefties hang on the wall and lose us money in a small shop.

Why do I spend all of my time tuning guitars when I go to a music store? Why can't someone who works there do that on a regular basis? And while you're at it, what's with all the crud on the strings?

******Tune and string 100+ instruments every week.. We spend hours and hours tuning and polishing our stock, it's a never ending battle.

Why do music stores never carry anything interesting or cutting edge?

*******It costs money to go out on a limb, and when you're the little guy trying to compete, you can't afford to gamble on the "next big thing" when you have to pay for what you already have.

[toddzilla]

13. so IS price everything?

how close would you expect a small shop to be to a large chain store? do you buy things that are signifigantly cheaper even when the service is bad?

sorry about the constant questions, but i'm trying to figure some stuff out, running a store is a real struggle with guitar center 4 miles away.

[Ron Green]

14. I would do some profiling.

I know this is not a nice word, and you want to try to give everyone a chance to be straight-up guy, but there must be some techniques you could use and methods you could put in place to differentiate the real customers from the ones who will waste your time. Whether this will work is based on the theory that someone who's a musical wanker will likely be a general wanker as well.

If you can come within 10% of Guitar Center's price, will your better service make the sale? How about 20%? You've probably figured this out by now, just how price-competitive you have to be along with your superior service.

My idea is that, if you can somehow identify the time-wasters, you can move your resources away from them and on to the "live ones." It's not just the good players who are worth spending time with, because the beginners with money who want your knowledge and service are your prime candidates, too. But I'm guessing that people who are boorish enough to try out your guitars just so they can crunch their lame Van Halen licks are also usually the ones who, when they have a little cash to spend, will bail out and go down the street where it's five dollars cheaper. Players with the grace and good taste to listen to what you've got to say instead of showing off their stinky stuff will most likely be the ones who'll show you some loyalty when it's time to buy, in my opinion.

So if you can perhaps develop some kind of classification system for your floor people, "who's a customer and who's a bozo," you might be able to marshal your resources more effectively and build an educated and civilized customer base.

[toddzilla]

15. i try..

the "floor people" is basically me and the owner. i'm on the floor 45 hours a week, he's in and out but on the floor about 20 probably.


You wouldn't believe how hard it is to figure out who is serious, who has money, who's a jackass etc.. honestly there's no way to tell. I had a kid come in who was probably 19 or so, multiple piercings, playing a crap-ass guitar and looking ratty as hell. he wanted to try out the dual recto head we had. i let him play it, he was ok as a player, then he offered me a grand, paid cash the next day. he came back like 2 days later because he couldn't figure out all the switches and settings on it.. he thought it was broken.

point is, you just can't tell who is going to buy what. we had a student that has played roughly a year come in and buy an $1800 half stack, there's just no way we would have guessed he would be the guy to get that..


It's tough, but we'll keep on with the good service and hopefully we will get a reputation.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. No I Prefer To Buy Local

I only buy chain when i'm looking for something that the smaller joints simply don't carry, or if they do, the pricing difference is ridiculous. (Example: A shop not too far from me could have gotten my T.C Electronics M-300, but it was $100 more than a major chain. That's $100 more than $189. So, that is a 35% difference. That's ridiculous!

But, i bought a Mexican Strat from my guys, and paid about $30 more than i could have at a Major, but i'd rather do biz with them.

So, price is certainly part of the equation, but i don't weight it any higher than any of my other criteria.
The Professor

[Beaverhausen]

17. well...as a female musician...

It's important that the salespeople at the store treat me with the respect I deserve.

I literally stood at the counter of a store with cash in my hand and I was ignored by the salesperson who helped a man who came in after me. I have at times been treated like a child when I try to buy guitar strings. Fortunately I have an endoresment

John Pearse strings RULE!!! http://www.jpstrings.com/

so I don't have to go to a store to get them anymore.

I have been a performing musician for 24 years. I still hate going into music stores.

[toddzilla]

18. those are good strings..

we carry those and people like em.

the only time i'll not pay much attention to someone is if there is a group of 5 ten year olds, then i just make sure they don't break anything or handle the expensive instruments.

[TrogL]

19. Staff who are musicians and know their stuff

I hate it when the keyboard area is staffed by guitar players who don't know what they're talking about.

My favourite store isn't particularly flashy but they know their stuff. The other stores in town are staffed by idiots.