One realization I have this morning...

[OneGrassRoot]

is that I do need to remove myself, somehow, from caring so much about these other realities that people are experiencing, especially if it's a reality I don't choose to experience. (see "your reaction to the Sanford fiasco" thread below)

My desire to stay informed is largely to help people like my aunt see the truth -- not my interpretation of truth, but hard facts -- since they get all of their information from one source.

That's hopeless. They don't believe facts; they believe all liberals and all media are lying.

People see and hear what they want to see and hear.

The same is true of my partner. She sees and hears what she wants to see and hear.

And, who am I to judge that? I'm sure I do it to a certain degree as well without being aware of it.

Now the question is, how to EXIST in the same world WITH people who see and hear things so differently than I do yet we're supposed to make decisions and create things together.

I've always voted for a translator of sorts, but that is frowned upon.

I didn't receive the guidance dream I called forth. :( Oh well, it will come in some form soon, I trust.....

What this release does provide me is that I no longer have a need to follow what Faux News and others are saying about this, that and the other. Yes, it frightens me that they lie and feed fear and hatred, but I can't change it, as those listening WANT to hear what they're saying. They'll find it somewhere if they didn't get it at Faux. It feeds their worldview. No other truths matter. It is THEIR reality.

So, I'm focused on MY reality. Creating it to the best of my ability to be the experience of MY choosing.

Still, the dilemma, is that others' realities impinge upon mine nonstop. How to work with that, detach from it, move beyond it? I don't know....I'm confused about that this morning.

I realize how I respond TO it is what's mostly within my control. Still, do I respond by detaching, trying to work with, or moving beyond it? lolol


:shrug:

[northernlights]

1. boy do I hear you, OGR

I don't know how we co-exist in the same physical reality as they do. My last job was working for a bunch of freepers. It was such a sick, sick environment, and they had no qualms whatsoever about bringing their rage into my home and taking it out on my defenseless animals. It took me months to get over the physical illness of being around them.

But I need to earn a living...and they seem to be everywhere.

I don't think you can work with it. As you write, they WANT to hear what they are hearing when they listen to FAUX. It is like a drug for them...they are addicted to rage and hate. And behind it all is huge, huge primal fear. The rage and hate drowns out and quells their fear. When they don't cling to their hate, the fear rises up. They're too cowardly to face it. I remember my freeper boss literally white-faced and trembling, after listening to hate-radio crap, yelling over and over, "But they want to KILL us all!!! They want to KILL us all!!" Mr. Kristian Konservative didn't even trust the god he thinks he fervently believes in to protect him, lol.

Their "filters" are so gummed up and dirty with fear and crap, they can't see facts right under their noses, or recognize them when they trip over them or are hit on the head with them.

And part of their "game" has always been to provoke, provoke, provoke with the intent of starting a gang fight. Because they are a bunch of cowardly bullies with big chips on their shoulders. In the case of your relatives, that means *just don't answer the phone.* You cannot change them. You can only put them on the big *IGNORE.*

I'm just hoping to find an environment where I can earn a decent living and not be working for or with them again. That's one plus of the medical setting -- most of them can't make it through the schooling, those that do are changed *by* the education and their surroundings. Even though I disagree with much of western medicine, I find that a lot of the better nurses also do. They do herbs, they do reiki, they try to change the system from within the system.

Other than that, I think all any of us can really do is just stay focused in our own reality and avoid contact with their reality. But even though my neighbors present a real physical threat, I no longer worry about it. For one thing, I've slowly learned that, now that Obama and the dems have won and they're clearly outnumbered, if you say "boo!" to them they will back down. For another, my horses have gotten smart. When my freeper-idjit neighbor opened their gate wide open to try to entice them to escape...they headed the other way, to the most remote pasture we have. I guess they know better than to get near freepers or follow their lead too, lol.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. dayum......

I feel for you, northernlights. I would go batshit crazy -- more than I already am! -- if people messed with my babies. Talk about primal rage....ughhhh.....

You're absolutely right though. I agree with everything you've said.

One thing I've also noticed recently, however, and it has to do with people I know who work in the medical field, is just the opposite of your experience.

I don't know if it's the area or what, but I also work with private clinics of various specialties in some of my work. The office staff are people I've known for a long time and I really like them in general. We don't interact that much though, mainly just the normal pleasantries.

I have noticed an undertone of grumbling lately I didn't notice before. Their impatience specifically with Medicare patients.

A good example is this comment one of the girls made. She was talking about an elderly patient that came in for treatment.

She said this lady -- "a typical Medicare patient" -- at her last appointment was rambling on and on about how she had to get home on time because some organization was coming over to fix up her house. There's some community organization that evidently goes around helping elderly and/or lower income persons fix up their houses, the office worker told me.

She said, "Must be nice. I'm here all day busting my ass for these people and they go home and get free shit."

:wow:

BTW, I thought about you last night. I'm still reading, bit by bit, "The Four Agreements," and last night focused on the "be impeccable with your word" section.

I guess I blew that when I told my aunt she's a fucking idiot.

:rofl:

[northernlights]

7. the nurses I'm thinking of are the higher quality

there are tons of average out there. But the ones with advanced degrees, such as the Director of Training that I took A&P with, are very cool. And I sat with very cool group of students in that course. Of course, I've met some real jerk-offs too, so recent experience is probably coloring my attitude right now. And I separate the health care *delivery* people from the office staff, in the same way the university professors are a universe apart from the administrative staff. I expect they are 2 entirely different worlds.

Yup, you blew the impeccability with the word. Don't feel bad, just climb right back on that horse :D. I think that's got to be the toughest agreement to hold.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. Unfortunately...

a nurse actually said this, but still...it's a mindset that is probably pervasive regardless of income level. In general, however, you're probably right. :)

I talked myself into thinking I WAS impeccable with my word, as I fully meant and said "you're a fucking idiot" with as much integrity as I could muster!!!

Just kidding! :rofl:

[northernlights]

13. maybe the nurse was just having a reeeally bad day

It's got to be one of the toughest jobs out there. If you spend some time in the health forum, it's just plain scary the way some medical staff is treated. The nurse-patient ratios are so bad, the nurses often can't even stop to pee.

But I've also known some incredibly jerky nurses. The one that comes to mind is a rw kk born again, lol.

Hey, I'll give you that one. You did, after all, fully mean what you said. You weren't in any way being dishonest or manipulative. In fact, you displayed considerable courage in the face of potential family punishment! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Any thoughts or reactions:

In considering this realization that there are SO many different realities being experienced and embodied by all of us and those around us, how does this statement hit you:


" ________ is the Community of Tomorrow built on your wishes and dreams today."


It's at the bottom of all of my emails and I haven't paid attention to it lately. But, just now, it hit me.

How does one build a community -- one NOT based on political, cultural or religious ideology -- when there ARE so many varied, and often conflicting, wishes and dreams?

I've envisioned our core humanity being what brings us together. But these vastly different worldviews are troublesome; sure, in times of extreme crisis people can come together, but in chronically stressful times as we are living now, people argue and blame others rather than see how they can work together.

I suppose I simply trust that like attracts like, even within a community with varied worldviews?

You can tell I'm going through a real existential crisis here. ;)


On edit: I had a little "aha" moment after typing the above (I have a feeling sharing here is what will lead me where I am trying to go. Thank you for that. :) )

BTW, I'm removing the name of the project because I'm rambling about personal dilemmas and I don't want these discussions to come up in Google searches if someone enters the business or website name. :)

Anyway, I just clearly heard: Board of Advisors.

A Board of Advisors with varied skill sets and life perspectives, and thus opinions, could bring more harmony in many ways. :)

Simple, yet I honestly never thought of it before. Focus group, yes; but the more formal Board of Advisors is a new "aha" moment.

[LaurenG]

4. This ties in nicely with a thread in Environment/Energy

called "The Importance of Enlightenment"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=115&topic_id=199812&mesg_id=199812

The discussion was around people entrenched in "tribal thinking."

People are going to try and keep you in the fold, especially family members. They want you to share their beliefs and if you manage to start to get out of the "hole" they will pull you back with all that they have or totally write you off in order not to have to think about other ways of believing/ living etc.

In al-anon they always taught us to detach with love. It's difficult if we have any emotional ties not to detach with anger. It's really about setting boundaries with those who wish to keep us tied to them in unhealthy ways. Keep taking care of yourself the best way you know how.

Thanks for bringing this topic up for discussion, it's nice to get other peoples take on this.

[OneGrassRoot]

6. That IS interesting....

Thank you for pointing me to that other thread, Lauren. :)

:hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Can't edit OP so shall post clarification here:

When I refer to "my partner," I mean my business partner. I announced my engagement weeks ago to Mark, so I didn't want anyone to be confused.

:)

[MorningGlow]

8. What you're describing is the Shift in a nutshell

Much as some people (*cough* my former elder *cough*) want the Shift to be the pagan version of the Rapture, with the worthy folk being hoovered up into an alternate, idyllic existence, leaving the pond scum folk to wallow in their own filth, that is NOT what the Shift is.

We're all going to be here. Right here. We chose Earth for this experience, and here we stay. We will exist side by side with people who see things in different ways. Our "ascension" hinges on, as you said, HOW we perceive reality, what reality we create for ourselves. Are we going to be bitter and angry and fearful? Or are we going to be trusting and loving and kind to one another? That answer illustrates which reality we're going to choose.

I love my aunt (the one I went off on a few weeks ago); she is very dear to me. We made it eight and a half years without having a blowup, so I figure my freakout was, proportional to the time frame of the buildup, mild.
:rofl:

I will continue to love my aunt and value her; however, we have to return to the reality we had created before, where there is NO WAY we can ever bring up politics, right-wing talk radio, gay rights, environmentalism, or anything else we part ways on--a DMZ of sorts. That's how we're going to cope and coexist.

On another note, I'm grappling with how to deal with the Shift with regard to Mr. MG. He is a good person, but he carries a lot of anger. He "hates" everything--no joke--I mean EVERYthing. Hates our house. Hates the village we live in. Hates our neighbors. Hates people in general (they're all "stupid"). Hates hates hates. His approach to life makes it very difficult to live with him (for someone like us, I mean--other people might not even notice it or be bothered by it).

We had a long talk about it, and I told him that I can't abide how much hate and anger he has. (BTW, he swears MG Jr. and I are not included in the "I hate everything" life view.) After he thought about it for a while, he announced that he was going to change. He agreed that it's not healthy to be this way, so he's going to stop griping about everything. "It's just a house" he said, echoing what I told him before. "And I can ignore our neighbors when they act like assholes." He agreed with what I had said--that there are jerks everywhere, and we have to recognize that we can't change them OR run away from them; our reality is not who we surround ourselves with, but how we react (or don't react) to the people who rub us the wrong way--how we let them affect us (or not--preferably not).

But honestly, I'm not sure he can manage it. It's like an alcoholic swearing off booze without the help of AA--are they really off it, or just burying it and ignoring it, where it'll fester and be worse in the long run? After all, what is fear and hatred but an addiction?

I have decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, but my guard is up, let's say. Will we be able to continue to live together if I embrace the ascension and he doesn't? That's a really big question. I'm not liking the answer I'm seeing at the moment. :(

[OneGrassRoot]

10. ...

I have to leave until later today, but wanted to give you a big hug and say that, unfortunately, I can kind of relate. :(

Things are very, very intense and weird. I know I sound like a broken record, but that's how things feel these last two weeks. Very, very odd. But, if I can detach, it's fascinating as well, and why I work through these things via writing about them here, like a journal...lol.

HUGE hugs to you, MorningGlow. :) :hug:

[MorningGlow]

14. Thanks, OGR

Back atcha. :hug:

It certainly is intense and weird--and intensely weird--lately.

[Why Syzygy]

11. ahem.

Not to start a feud, as usually happens at DU when someone mentions AA ...
There are MANY alcoholics who find other various methods to induce the self growth and awareness needed to live without alcohol. Happily. I just don't like to see generalizations that infer that anyone who gives up alcoholic drinking without AA are somehow "less than" sober or recovered.

[MorningGlow]

12. Yes, you're right--I apologize

I fired that post off using "AA" as shorthand. I should have said "AA or any other method for overcoming addiction". The point I wanted to make is that very few people can overcome addiction just by saying "fine, I'll stop then" and not have any problems after that very moment, especially when the person who's addicted is doing it merely to please a loved one instead of from their own heart. Mr. MG gave me a "fine, I'll stop then" which is what's giving me pause.

[Why Syzygy]

17. Aw. That's okay.

All addictions require personal commitment to overcome. You're right. In order to really change, he'll have to make some changes, not just give lip service. As you related it, I thought he 'sounded' sincere. Of course I'm not there and trust you know what's really going on. :grouphug:

[MorningGlow]

18. He's said the same, several times before

And he meant it every time. He's had varying degrees of success when it comes to the longevity of his promise. But then he's always gone back to his negative attitude. Not to say he'll do the same this time, but that's why my guard is up.

I realize (bringing this back to OGR's point, making amends for hijacking her thread! :) ) that this is a very difficult thing to change for anyone--it requires a complete 180 as to how to view life and how to live it. VERY difficult. I used to be a really negative person when I was young, because that's the way my parents were, and I didn't know any different--didn't even notice I was being negative. It took me about 10 years of training (during my witchcraft classes) and being around others a lot in my coven, where we'd catch each other if we said self-defeating or viciously negative things, before I "got it". So I've only been "negativity free" myself for about one quarter of my life.

Anyway, that's why, unless these negative people, including the fundies and conservatives and other people we've discussed, really SEE how they talk and how they're perceiving life, they're more likely to remain the way they are, and we just have to give them a wide berth.

I was watching my favorite guy's (see sig) latest documentaries, James May on the Moon and James May at the Edge of Space, where he gives a very accessible history of the moon landings and then goes up in a U-2 spy plane and sees the curvature of the Earth. He was incredibly moved at the sight, and he said that if everyone on the planet could do what he just did, "it would change the face of global politics, religion, education, everything". It reminded me of what I always say--for some of these negative people to wake up, they'd have to have a near-death experience before they changed so essentially.

I don't want to "nearly kill" people, so...anybody got enough cash to send these Negative Nellies on a quick space ride to jolly them up a bit? :D

[Why Syzygy]

22. In your post

to which I originally responded, I noticed that you mention he doesn't 'hate' you and MG Jr. That makes me sad to think that you might even consider the possibility. I know how hate/anger being expressed by someone close engenders insecure feelings. For all the years we've been here posting together, you've never mentioned a single thing that would lead anyone to believe that he doesn't love you and Jr. Of course, constantly expressing hate is not the most loving thing one can do.

I had a male friend in Austin who was really a NICE guy. He knows all about geology and it was great fun to show him my crystal collection. But, oh my, I hated to be in a vehicle with him. He is/was the quintessential road rager. I told him so too. Frankly, I refuse to be a passenger in the vehicle with one. It isn't safe. And, if we went through a fast food drive through, he pissed and moaned the entire time. It was very unpleasant. He was younger than me by four or five years, but had his "Story" he told about how he was sure he would "die young" because all the men in his family did. That isn't healthy and as we know, a self fulfilling prophecy! He was a little bit interested in me, but I had to decline mainly for those two reasons. Some years ago I placed an ad in the dating section of an alternative paper, and the copy included, "No Road Ragers". lol

Warning, my version of advice ahead. You can't change or fix anyone of course. But sometimes, like GTRO wrote, we can say or do something that might cause a snap to awareness. The natural born smart ass I am might say something like this: Mr. MG . I Hate .. Me . Really? Do you? PLEASE tell me all about it! I cannot wait to hear more! I live for no other reason than to lay down my life as a toxic waste dump for your hate. It fulfills me!
:rofl: Well, I think it's funny. But who knows.

If he continues to indulge himself, just do whatever it takes to protect yourself and take care of yourself and MG Jr. It could be it is a simple habit for him; or it could indicate deeper issues where he is projecting 'hate' in an effort to avoid his inner demons. You have a better perspective on that. Take care!

[MorningGlow]

23. OMG Syz that is so weird

The men in Mr. MG's family have all died young (in their 50s), and Mr. MG considers it inevitable as well (he'll be 48 in July). Do you think that there might be some connection--that perhaps they feel anger toward that "inevitability" even though they act as though they have accepted it?

Anyway, I have "ordered" Mr. MG that he is not to succumb to the family medical history in any way, because his son needs him. He is trying to take care of himself, but he still needs to take medication for his high blood pressure, and he hasn't.

For the record, Mr. MG is quite cool-headed behind the wheel (and thank goodness--I wouldn't be able to ride with someone like your friend!) and never raises his voice or lashes out in any way. (Of course that could be bad as well, with anger festering and all.)

Thank you for the advice. As it happens, I actually AM a natural-born smartass! That should work for me! :hi:

[Why Syzygy]

24. Oh no!

We write our Stories. I was planning to post a thread with this, but haven't gotten it together to do so. But I MUST give it to you now. You've got to get him to watch this. I'm hardly ever adamant. I'm making an exception. Tell him Auntie Syzygy said so.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6568107389365915765&hl=en

My friend doesn't seem to have anger about other issues. Just driving related. He works in customer support for one of the utilities; and in fact that's how we met. He is very patient on the phone and we started talking ... :shrug:

[get the red out]

19. "White-knuckling"

Giving up a harmful, negative behavior without replacing it with anything positive to correct the mental and emotional or even physical conditions that led to the behavior to begin with.

Just my definition anyway. :7

I have white-knuckled various things in my life before to no avail; always ended up having to make efforts to change my thinking, (dammit!).

MG, at least your husband knows he has a problem. So many people don't even know. After all the fighting last year over the election with my spouse, and me reading books on how to talk to someone who is being, honestly, verbally abusive, with no improvement; I looked up from chopping vegetables in the kitchen sometime in late November when he was jabbering at me again and said calmly but firmly "It is NOT my purpose in this relationship to be your liberal punching bag, that is not why I am here and I will not play that role in your life." He tried to accuse me of going after him over politics as much as he did me and I stopped him and pointed out that I made an effort not to do so and he knew it, and he became quiet and got a really funny look on his face. After that things started getting better, we almost never discuss politics now and even often find common ground on some political issues when they come up. I don't know how that got through to him when nothing else did, but so far so good.

[northernlights]

15. I'm sorry, MG,

for what you and hubbie are going through. :hug:

Also sorry to read that the shift won't be some pagan rapture :rofl: I so hoped to leave certain people behind to wallow in their own mess :D Also to land in nirvana.

[MorningGlow]

16. Thanks NL

We'll see what happens. :hug:

You know, I kinda wanted the fundie version to be the right one--have them hoovered up and leave us with a lovely fundie-free earth. It's always the assholes who have the good cars, so after they were gone, I figured we could have our pick!
:rofl:

[Shallah Kali]

20. Don't try to argue with phobic people. Go ahead and say what you want but accept it won't be absorbe

for months, years or at all in this life. Sometimes people will get it much later while others never will. Sometimes the seed of thought you or another planted with be fruitful and grow, other times not, but in any case neither is your fault or responsibility.

Focus on taking care of yourself. A accept it is not up to you alone to save the world or anyone else. The only person you can 'save is yourself. The most anyone can do is assist others along the way.

I wish there was some magic way to allow others to see each one's point of view but there isn't. It is frustrating as can be to see facts and reason just bounce off not being absorbed at all. All I can do is accept the fact I can't make other's see what they can't or are not capable of seeing and work on my reactions to their actions and reactions. And like you said it stinks that their choice of reality impinges on ours like being stuck with w. for 8 years. When I am not ticked over the damage they cause that I feel sad for people trapped in their net of fear and paranoia :( but then again I have to accept it is not my fault or responsibility. I can only do what I can do. The only person I can change is myself. I can try to help others but it is up to them whether it works or not.

so my advice such as it is is to be the best you you can be. this sets a good example and raises the collective vibes. and you are the only person you can change and so you get further than continuing to play irresistible force and immovable object.

[Shallah Kali]

21. A very good book on setting boundaries, relationship dynamics & how to resist changing back

The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner

Sorry it is only snippet view :( It is a very popular selfhelp books so maybe your local library has a copy. I was lucky and got several copies at Goodwill so I have been sharing them with friends. While it can't help you figure out a way to get others to see your point of view to at least consider it for a moment it does show some ways to help you stand up for yourself. I have found it very helpful and fully worth my $1.99! I esp. like how it pointed out how people will try to get others to change back (or countermoves as the author calls them) even when making changes for the better - even one's the person encouraged.