Heads up, for all who DON'T vaccinate

[FirstLight]

...anyone wanna back me up here?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3448907&mesg_id=3448907


everyone who has replied to this thread is name clling and ranting about how those who don't vaccinate are the cause of these "epidemics"... I could use some help with more facts and less name calling. :)

thanks

[Hestia]

1. Okay, I'll bite --

1 - there really isn't a measles vaccine - it doesn't work, especially against rubeolla, which is the 14 day measles, the MMR is rubella, which is the 3 day measles or German Measles, but does cause the birth defects if a pregnant woman comes down with rubella. What has happened is hygeine (Hygenia) that has made all the difference in the world regarding epidemics.

2 - most the measles are coming from immigrants to this country

3 - last night on NBC, it was reported that 5 million people came down with the measles in the 1960s, directly coorelating with the baby boomers. 500 died per year, which means we are vaccinating against 1/10 of 1%. What is bad about measles is the high temps. Before Tylenol, all there was asprin, which is not the most effective against high fevers, just low grade temps. A next-door neighbor was retarded due to his fever getting over 105 for hours, due to measles. Don't have any stats about side effects of measles.

4 - why are outbreaks happening again? The Echo Boomers = 82 million baby boomers, 40 million Gen x, 88 million Echo Boomers. Think of it as a 2nd wave of boomers. 131 out of 120 million is not worth getting anyone's bowels in an uproar about.

5 - those of us who have had measles are immune. It is actually much better to have them than the supposed vaccine. Lifetime immunity.

[FirstLight]

2. THANK YOU!

I am not going to argue about MY freedom to choose my child's immunity with people who would rather blame me for the problem, when this is not about "those anti-immunization fundies" it is about the vaccines NOT being viable in the first place!

I appreciate your math and inforation as well, I made my decision years back and from a very different place, but the facts of the percentages is really eye opening as well.

[WhiteTara]

11. thermosil is the key

to my concerns about immunizations. Autism is so rampant that it doesn't bear risking.

edited for spelling

[FirstLight]

3. PS

I am really getting a LOT of snarky and downright negative and rude people on DU as of late replying to not just me, but anyone they don't agree with. Seeing users that I don't recognize and the meanness is not normal...

are we being watched more ? what's up with this energy? I may just choose to hang out here until after the election. I don't like the meanness factor! I thought we are all supposed to be on the same "side" here?

has anyone else noticed it too?

yes, I realize I am also jacking my own thread, but this vacine thing is just a small example of alot of what I have seen. I have avoided posting more & more because I don't want to end up defending my thoughts or being chewed up & spit out!

:( meanies!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. two reasons

the place has turned right

There are subjects that are now verbotten...

And yes, more and more of us are posting less and less

Even perhaps donating less and less, or not at all

[FirstLight]

5. how can this be?

are the mods looking the other way and letting the RW trolls take over? are we being infiltrated by the govt, just like Naomi wolf said would happen? this is just downright creepy and really makes me upset too!

grrr!

eta - what's verbotten mean?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. In the desire to support the candidate

any talk that is deviant from the norm, even when looking at polls, is either poopoed or locked as flamebait Hell, even suggesting that the Cons wnt to steal the election and will do all in their power is a no-no topic.

People have been tossed for no reason... others have moved on, and the place has attracted folks who are new to the game, or naive, or both. (As well as a fair amount of "centrists")

And no, the gov'ment does not need to do this... from what I can see this decision came from the top

And verbotten means forbidden.

Do not, in any way, be critical of Barack Obama (even over minor things like FISA) or you may find yourself tossed.

At this point... I just post political stuff at other places and avoid GDP like the plague. Hell, the only good thing about this place is LBN, really

[FirstLight]

7. hey here's another question

someone threatened to "poe" me over this stupid immunzation debate... check out the thread link above... they are capping on chiropractors and everything else , even after I say that i don't want to deal with the negativity, seems like they just want to pick a fight.

never heard the term... it isn't an alert, so wtf? I guess i will be the next to get tossed because I told people to stop telling me that my freedom to choose my children's immunology isn't their business...oops! I thought we lived in a democracy, how silly of me! I guess I'd better just move to fiji!


EDIT to ADD:

here's the quote

"I'm half-tempted to call a Poe on your posts....."

does anyone know WTF that means?

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Have no idea what the term means

I know there are some folks in the alternative healing community that do sell snake oil... but others do not

And some of those alternative means are coming mainstream (acupuncture anyone)

Now as a former medic from a public health perspective I can tell you that you are wrong. And that one reason Polio is coming back in some areas in the third world is lack of a 100% coverage. But you are talking measles, and that one has always been an argument

It's been suggested that if kids do not get it by a certain age... then and ONLY THEN they should be vaccinated since it is far deadlier as an adult.

Others have suggested 100% coverage. I participated in health delivery in a country where vaccination was mandatory for kids to go to public school, period... and democracy, I was told... is not part of public health.

So there is certainly a debate on that one.

[FirstLight]

9. thanks for the info

...and thanks even more for putting it in a way that isn't so damn hot headed. i understand that public health and democracy shouldn't be related, but i still reserve the right to disagree. :)

so I guess we'll just take our chances, and i guess most every parent i know is in the same boat (because we are all hippies that don't immunize!) - so that screws up the chances for the "herd" in my rural town as well...oh shit. (well, overpopulation is an issue too, so maybe curing all these diseases isn't the best thing...that's a whole 'nother debate)

Besides, I doubt if it will be measles which will be the cause of our (humanity's) demise.

thanks nadine...I haven't always agreed with you, but at least you are rational! ;)

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. They're not related... as much as we may like to

in places with top notch delivery systems, the US is not one of them, this is not even up for discussion

You want your kid in public school... he\she gets the vaccines... the only exception, and are rare as hell, are for either religious or medical reasons

As to overpopulation, nature is wise... and will find a way to thin the herd... new diseases are great for that, or for that matter global warming and our dependence on ten plan species and five animal species to survive may just do it.

And as they say, 99% of all species have already gone extinct... we've had a good run... we are not creatures who live outside of nature.

[loudsue]

13. I had measles at the age of 42. Came VERY close to death.

It was a nightmare. My entire body, internally, was as if it was entirely ulcerated. My head swelled up almost 2 inches in the back, near the nape of my neck. My eyes felt raw, as did my teeth, gums and throat. I drank some orange juice at one point, and it burned everything it touched on the way down. It lasted almost a month. Very nasty disease for older people....and when it comes to the measles, 42 IS old! And I had been vaccinated as a kid. Didn't matter.

[Why Syzygy]

14. I had it before I was two

before the vaccine was introduced, which was about 1963 IIRC.

Funny, but I've always had a memory of how sick I was. I don't remember any pain, but I do remember crouching in the back of the closet. I didn't, and don't, know why, but that was the only place I felt better. It may have been related to the accompanying fever.

Your suffering sounds absolutely awful. I'm sorry.

[kimmerspixelated]

12. I want to thank you personally, for coming to my aid!

Your posts were right on, and I'm so glad you presented them! I know what you mean about the rudeness. I have put the ones that I know work for Big Pharma on Ignore, because they were above and beyond nasty. My main objection to their posts is not the differences, or counter ideas but the toxic level of their responses, which makes me think they are just rethug. plants. Maybe I'm paranoid! But I am glad to come in here to breathe a bit! I get a little heated about natural health, and as a mother, it was a big decision to not vac. and the nasty posters really get under my skin, and I don't like what it does to my general sense of well-being. I need to put a sign near the computer that reminds me not to get so involved in these issues! Oh, but thanks for letting me vent!

[Celebration]

15. It got locked

"Every member of this community has a responsibility to participate in a respectful manner, and to help foster an atmosphere of thoughtful discussion. In this regard, we strongly advise that our members exercise a little common decency, rather than trying to parse the message board rules to figure out what type of antisocial behavior is not forbidden."

LOL--

The pro and anti vaccination people have just about ruined the Health Forum. Because of Gardasil, four out of every five OPs are now about vaccines. Some is new information, but mostly it is just the same old stuff. It just gets boring after a while. I think I will starte hiding some threads there.

[Why Syzygy]

16. I looked at it yesterday,

full of marvel that it wasn't locked yet. I alerted on one poster, no one replying to me. In order to 'debate' those issues at DU, one has to have a spirit of tit for tat. I can only tolerate so much of that. Low tolerance.

edit: I thought of introducing this article into the thread, but then, why bother >

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26269069/

Lots of people are talking about this. They manage to do it a bit differently than DU.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26334836/