I have a very complicated situation with my husband

[yankeeinlouisiana]

He loves another woman. He says he still love me and is in love with me, but he's met someone closer to his spiritual awareness. They haven't had sex yet, (but I know they have kissed), but I know it's only a matter of time.

I love my husband dearly and I really don't want to lose him, but I'm having a hard time coping right now. I do believe they can help each other to grow spiritually, but it's the sexual aspect I'm having a hard time with.

Any insight or advice anyone can offer is more than appreciated.

[teenagebambam]

1. Well, here's what my mother might say....

"He don't need no spirituality, he needs an iron skillet upside his head."

[yankeeinlouisiana]

2. Thanks! I can use all the smiles I can get.

n/t

[yankeeinlouisiana]

3. I guess I should have posted a little more info

in my original post.

This is going to sound a little weird, (even for this forum), but he has a destiny and I think she can help him to the next level, whereas I cannot. I know I have a destiny too, I just pray (been doing a lot of that lately), that our destinies align.

[Dover]

6. I don't know if there are any 'right' or singular formulas for situations like this.

I've been on all sides of that one at one time or another. Attraction and love are often the muses that spark our souls. We might discover that we aren't 'in love' so much with the other person as they have helped us to love a part of ourselves that needs to be nurtured. Often it's temporary, , lasting just long enough for the new thing to emerge, but sometimes it's a lifetime thing.
It happens often in teacher/student relationships. A teacher opens us up in ways no one else has and we fall in love with them...when in fact we are falling in love with a newly emerging part of ourselves.

I'm reminded of Jung's relationship with his muse/mistress. His wife, recognizing what this woman was bringing into his life, somehow learned to live within that triangle. But that's not necessarily
the answer for everyone. Jung, while he may have been a brilliant psychoanalyst and seer of other people's conscious and unconscious behaviors and inner workings, may have been blind or incapable of altering his response to his own. OR perhaps he fully understood the dynamics and then CHOSE the experience.

Anyway, such a difficult situation. Follow your deepest heart's wisdom. :hug:

[yankeeinlouisiana]

34. Funny you should use the word "muse".

That's what he calls her. He told me that I keep him grounded and he sees her as his muse. (I thought I was going to puke when he said that.) I think I'm trying to do what Jung's wife did, but having a difficult time with that. I want to give him the freedom to grow and reach his destiny, but this is a very difficult road.

Thank you for your post and all of the posts. I've always enjoyed your posts and all of these responses are helping very much.

[Dover]

39. Be sure to tell him that this is NOT very a-MUSING!

At least he's aware that she IS a muse.

I'm pretty aware when men are seeing me as their muse. It's like they are possessed.
It's not a bad thing, because it means they are opening to some new and important aspect
of themselves. So while I certainly don't want to squash that in anyone, my boundaries are very clear.
It's tricky to redirect all that energy. It can be like trying to rein in a wild
horse. But ultimately it's important for them (or any of us) to own this aspect of themselves instead of projecting it. But that generally comes AFTER the falling in love part.

I know the difference between that and love, though they aren't necessarily mutually
exclusive. Maybe he does too.

In my youth, when a long term 'spouse equivalent' started to stray I was angry and hurt and we both went back and forth about it...stay...go....stay...go. After a few months of this and lots of games,
I finally decided to give him ALL the rope and see where we both landed. So I left, he stayed and
pursued the woman he thought he needed to be with. I went back to school and discovered all these
wonderful new aspects of myself, and dated, got to know myself better, etc. and a year later he comes
crawling back telling me it didn't work out, and WHY OH WHY did he mess up our relationship? He wanted to try again.

Well, I MIGHT have taken him back had I not been in such a good place in my life with new prospects
for relationship, career and so forth. We didn't have kids so that wasn't an issue. The truth was I had blossomed in his absense and outgrown him. Being with him again would have felt oppressive to my new self. It was a tough road but worth every tear.

Hang in there toots.
(((big hug)))

[yankeeinlouisiana]

49. "a-MUSING"...that made me smile. Thanks.

I still keep wondering what she wants out of this. She's told me that I shouldn't be afraid of her and I told her I wasn't. That was an odd conversation. We occasionally run into each other and she'll give me a kiss on the cheek and a hug; she holds nothing against me and I really have nothing against her. I just don't want her having sex, falling in love or anything else like that with my husband. I don't know if she's in love with my husband but there certainly is an attraction.

[Dover]

54. Well, unfortunately most of us are not conscious enough of ourselves

and in control of our energies and egos enough for that kind of interaction t work out well, as is apparent in your husband's lustful reaction to her (regardless of her intentions).
Astrologically speaking these are classic traps associated with Neptune where sex, love and spirituality get mixed up with the illusion of same. Boundaries and distinctions dissolve.
She has already crossed the line if they've kissed or she's given him green light signals, which may mean it's mutual but more likely she is feeding her ego and feels superior to him (and you) in some way...so can take him or leave him. It's heady stuff to have someone falling all over you and putting you on a pedestal. If she were spiritually mature she would have already put
those boundaries down and not allowed it to get this far.

Get your own boundaries clear with her as well. Intimate contact with you can also be
a power play rather than an act of endearment or friendship.

Onward through the fog.

And btw, Jung's wife was always unhappy with the 'arrangement' and it was always stressful for all three. Those were different times and Jung, for all his gifts, was very much a human and a man.
Perhaps they felt the positives of staying together outweighed the negatives. Their choice.
Hard to know what the intimate dynmaics were there, but I know I could never live like that...as mistress OR wife in a triangle.

[Shallah Kali]

12. It is up to each individual to actualize him/herself. I fail to see how bending and breaking vows

can take anyone any where but *down* several levels. He may have 'special needs' but the spiritual thing to do IMO is for him to find a way to meet them that does not violate commitments he freely chose to make. Having a romantic emotional relationship with one's guru crosses the line. Kissing with the potential for sex outside one's committed relationship with the 'guru' smashes it. If he wants tantra outside of marriage so to speak there is always himself to practice on. There are many other ways to develop a spiritual practice if that is what he *truly* wants.

I am afraid to me it sounds like this is just window dressing to make an affair look nice. He probably is firmly convinced it is all about spiritual growth so he won't have to admit he is doing something he would probably say if anybody else - including you - was doing it was wrong.

There is a general rule of thumb that people shouldn't have sexual relationships with their spiritual leaders, psychotherapists, doctors and teachers. There is too much projection of one's innerself, potentials and dreams on the other person, too much giving away of power to the one in the leadership position.

This just reminds me of people who have flings with their so-called soulmates and try to say it is OK because they needed to complete something from another life, never considering that maybe this time all they needed was to just say NO at the beginning instead of reenacting their love triangle for the umpteenth lifetime.


Whatever you choose I wish you well. I just know if it was me I would be fighting the urge to use the traditional frying pan upside the head technique if my best beloved wanted to go to another level with his guru instead of me!

[yankeeinlouisiana]

35. Gosh, you guys are dead on!!

Dover used the word "muse" and now you used the word "guru". She's really into yoga and has gone to India to practice/learn. My husband has learned a different philosophy and he is intrigued by this new one. (God, as I typed that I don't even believe it myself.)

As far as the sex thing goes, he told me that it is simply another way of relating to someone. I kinda understood what he meant, but again it sounds like rationalization.

As far as marriage vows goes, we weren't married in a Christian church, so there's no "death 'til you part" thing. In our religion it is called an eclipse. Two bodies are joined to become one, but it is only for a determined amount of time. Unfortunately, our eclipse ended last September. We can get re-eclipsed and have talked about doing so, but not lately.

:-(

FYI, we've been married for 17 years and have known each other for 20 years. We also have three children. And all of this sucks, very much!

[Shallah Kali]

38. Sex isn't just a friendly handshake even if your husband wants to make like it is

It is an exchange of personal - including spiritual - energy between people. Some even give a piece of their soul to one another. This and energy cords are why it is so blasted hard for people to get over intimate relationships and so easy for a user to yank the other's chain. The only more intimate act and relationship than sex is to carry and give birth to a child. The body is the temple of the soul and inviting someone into the holy of holies ideally isn't done with someone who is not aware of the magnitude of what is taking place - especially so when supposedly done for spiritual growth.

To me it makes no difference if a couple has a legal marriage or other ceremony. If a commitment was made it should be honored. And IMO I am on the side of common law marriage where if a couple lives together in the manner of man and wife then by all, IMO, ethical standards they are married. I am angered that someone would want their signifcant other to do all the spousely duties raising their kids and keeping their SO grounded while they seek 'spiritual' heights with somebody else. Where is his consideration for your spiritual needs including trust and true honesty, not ridiculous rationalizations? Blast it. I really wish I could help you somehow! I really hate to see people jerked around by their SOs who want a bit of something on the side while keeping their SO for backup. I hope something happens to snap him out of his trance so he can see himself and his 'guru' clearly.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

47. I guess I didn't explain my wedding ceremony clear enough.

The church part of the wedding (eclipse) is what has expired. We still have a marriage license and if we part would still need to get divorced. I asked him today if he would like to get re-eclipsed and he told me yes but that we should get through a few things first and I totally agreed with him.

[WhiteTara]

32. don't forget to pray

for yourself in all of this too. I ache for your pain and wouldn't mind giving you the skillet for the whap upside his head.

Be very very kind to yourself. You are living your destiny too and you count. As my therapist would say, "each of us has one unit of human worth" don't give him your unit.
:hug:

[glowing]

4. It sounds to me like he's using another part of his body to do the thinking

and using the "spirituality" crap to allow you to go along... "Shit of get off the Pot" is what I say. If he needs to move on and "grow", then let him move on. There is no reason for your spirituality and your heart to be crushed by being inbetween of his indecisiveness. AND instead of looking outside of your commitment, what can the two of you do to address what is missing in his "spiritual" growth. I'm sorry but sex in my book does not equate spiritual growth... its just a great part of finding the person you want to spend your life with.

Good luck and don't get snowed.

[LiberalEsto]

5. Sounds like b.s. to me

In my cranky old opinion, he wants to have his cake and eat it too, and he's dressed it all up in a lot of "spiritual" language to con you into going along with it.

I can't tell you what to do, but in your place I would tell him to cut the spiritual next-level talk and decide whether to give her up, or hit the road. And I would have myself tested for STDs, just in case.

Sorry to sound so harsh, that's just how it seems to me. I hope everything works our for the best for you.

:hug:

[Coyote_Bandit]

7. Grow spiritually?

How exactly?

What you have said indicates that you believe the relationship is or will become sexual. That means the relationship will lead to a betrayal and likely the deceit that accompanies such betrayal.

Is failure to keep a commitment, betrayal, and deceit evidence of spiritual growth? Hardly.

Seems to me that your husband is "thinking" with the wrong part of his anatomy.

You are naive to justify the relationship because you credit the other woman with the capacity to help your husband grow spiritually. Bullshit. Spiritual growth is an individual responsibility. No other woman is required for his spiritual growth. But a hefty dose of honesty, self discipline and self control is required.

Now is the time to challenge the relationship and fight to save your marriage - if that is what you want to do. Validating the relationship is a sign that you approve.

Sorry. I don't mean to sound harsh. You are not responsible for your husband's choices and his behavior. Don't beat yourself up over stuff you can't control.

:hug:

[yankeeinlouisiana]

36. Yes, sometimes I am naive.

Especially when it comes to my husband. I just want to trust him and maybe that is why I give him so much leeway.

Since Katrina, things have been very hard on us. He lost his job and that brought on a lot of financial hardships and now we have recently started a new business, so there's a lot of other crap going on in our life right now. I spoke with a friend of mine about this and she has observed in the past that when things don't go well for my husband it tends to affect every aspect of his life.

You're not being harsh, it just simple reality for me.

[Dover]

8. The Mistress

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/g/griffin-mistress.html

[Matariki]

14. Hey Dover

this requires a log in to the NY Times site.

Is it a book, if so what's the name of it? What's the context to this conversation?

Genuinely curious...

[Dover]

15. It's the first chapter of a book

titled, The Mistress - Histories, Myths and Interpretations of the "Other Woman".
by Victoria Griffin.

I'll PM you and anyone else who would like to read it, the text.

[Matariki]

16. Thank you very much.

That was a good read. Think I'll look up the book at the library. Thanks Dover.

[Dover]

17. You're welcome.

I'm not surprised you enjoyed that. It seems we both enjoy the richness of archetypes, symbols and mythology. Not to mention Jung and psychology!

[Hestia]

27. There is a website that allows you to log into websites that need

a password - http://bugmenot.com - there are log in's for most newspaper sites. Just an FYI

[Dora]

9. Challenging times. When they told us about love...

... they forgot to tell us about the hard parts.

I was once "another woman," and my idea of what constitutes betrayal and deceit may be more forgiving and nebulous than others.

I think most loving relationships are full of challenge whether they're marital, parental, or platonic. I only suggest that you give yourself enough quiet space to meditate on loving yourself and your spouse, and listening to the voice within that will tell you what you must do.

:hug:

[saracat]

10. Personally, I don't buy that his spirituality is the part of him that is "growing". Spirituality

doesn't grow by betrayal, either emotionally or physically. Spirituality grows by nurturing itself and that includes honoring your vows. I am really sorry but at the moment your husband doesn't sound spiritual to me so much as ".self serving".

I would request that he work on the relationship between you both and on honoring his commitment to you. If he cannot I believe you should honor your commitment to yourself and cut him loose. he is disrespecting you and that isn't 'spiritual". nor is your allowing him to disrespect you or providing him with an excuse to do so by accepting his rationale for doing so
.
Best of luck to you and much light. You deserve better.

[Dover]

11. A woman associate of mine was in a somewhat similar situation.

She had invited a female colleague she enjoyed and admired over to her house a
lot to work and socialize, and the woman's husband apparently liked her too
...and began to have romantic thoughts/feelings. It was clear that it was mutual.
So the woman, seeing this development decided to call a 'meeting' of all three of them to
lay it out on the table before it got much further along. She wasn't emotional,
and let be known her good feelings for her colleague and love for her husband.
And she began to speak of the practical consequences as well as the emotional ones
were this to proceed.

While the colleague had clearly been experiencing her own fantasies about being with
the woman's husband, there was something about the reality of actually discussing it
openly and dealing with the aftermath that burst her romantic bubble. She created the
necessary and proper distance from the husband and he did the same, and they all carried on.
Turns out the husband, who had been out of a job for awhile and was feeling less 'a man'
because of it, recognized his need to be admired and respected on those terms, which was
a catalyst for getting a second wind in his job hunting...which paid off with a new job.
And the woman said that her colleague had been divorced a few years before and was just
lonely for male companionship, and yet hadn't really done much about it. So she started
dating again.

Sometimes situations like this shakeup a marriage for the better, whether the couple
winds up staying together, separating for a time, or splitting. Because there is
something that needs to be expressed, changed, brought into the open...whatever.
It's rarely sexual attraction alone...anymore than it is a red sports car.
But finding a way to understand and articulate those inner needs and drives is another
thing entirely!
Messy but often important..

[NuttyFluffers]

26. that's a beautiful example of communication's power

often i think that is the reason for so many of our emotions -- to be inspired with enough energy to intervene and start the process of dialogue. unfortunately sometimes the emotions get really high and communication starts with screaming. this is often not as productive, however...

[Matariki]

13. Your husband needs to read some Jungian work about the anima

He's confusing an un-integrated part of himself with this woman. The supposed connection to his spirituality is a dead give away.

He doesn't need to have sex with her to benefit spiritually from a friendship with her. The attraction points to something he either sees in her or is projecting on her that he wants in himself.

You both should go to couple counseling to get through this.

[LWolf]

18. Don't listen to me.

My last marriage of 12 years ended when my husband, who'd been a lifelong friend that I trusted with my heart, announced that while he still loved me and always would (I know this to be true, to some extent,) he was "in love" with someone else. I did the "don't destroy our lifelong relationship, and he went through the motions, with none of himself invested, for a couple of weeks. Then told me I had to go. She moved into my house a week after I moved out. He didn't even get a new bed. My stuff was still hanging in the closet.

With that behind me, I'm understandably skeptical about the "spiritual awareness" thing. It's obviously more than "spiritual."

It could have a spiritual component, but the bottom line, for me, is this:

If your marriage agreement includes monogamy, I think he's already broken that agreement, whether they're having sex or not.

If I were faced with that situation now, I'd be a lot less patient and forgiving than I was then. I wouldn't make it easy by walking away from the house and everything we'd built together, our community of people in common, etc., and just disappearing.

I also wouldn't bother trying to work it out; if he isn't getting what he wants from me, he'll always see the grass "greener" somewhere, anywhere, else.

I feel like an ultimatum, and some counseling, is in order.

Don't listen to me, though. This is still, after all of the work I've done, an unhealed soul wound.

[I Have A Dream]

19. LWolf, I'm sorry that you have been hurt so deeply.

I know that it's the type of betrayal that makes it really hard to trust someone again since you so trusted him, your friend and beloved. I hope that you are able to heal at some point so that you don't have to carry that pain around inside of you. May this huge weight be lifted from your soul.

:hug:

[LWolf]

28. Thatnk you for your kind thoughts.

I, too, continue to hope. Often I've felt that I HAVE healed and moved on, only to find it suddenly still with me.

[Grateful for Hope]

20. I can't even imagine, LWolf

I think your advice is sound, and, it does sound like you have done a lot of healing. I am so sorry that you went through this. I have to admit that your post made me quite angry.

You certainly deserved much, much better than this.

[LWolf]

29. I have done

much healing, and I believe there is much more to be done. Thank you for your words of support. They help.

[Grateful for Hope]

21. I definitely agree with the other posters here

All of us, at one time or another, are attracted to other people, whether we are married or not. It is what one does with that attraction that defines one's willingness to honor (and work for) a marital/committed relationship.

It certainly sounds to me that your husband is full of excuses for wanting to act on such an attraction. Couching the attraction in spiritual terms is, to me, a rather blatant attempt to deceive you (and, possibly, even him).

[BlueIris]

22. Welp, he claims to know what he wants here. It's up to you to decide what you want.

I'd leave him out of it while you think it through. It sounds to me as if he left you out of his decision to violate the emotional boundaries of your relationship for his spiritual growth. If a more fluid definition of monogamy isn't for you, then I think you have some hard choices to make in the near future.

We are here for you, whatever you decide.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. Based on some of my own experience..get out now...while you still have some

self-respect.
I think that I would be more hurt by a relationship with a spiritual connection that I would by one of only meaningless sex.

If you leave the decision to him, it will be a long drawn out situation where he will make you so miserable that you will eventually leave anyway.
I think that men in this situation just do not have the courage to end it, so they try to make you so miserable that you end it, and they do not have to take responsibility for anything.

Sorry if this sounds bitter, but I guess it is.

[SheilaT]

24. It's not complicated.

It's very simple.

He can honor his marriage vows or he can break them. And, quite frankly, and as several others have already pointed out, this isn't "spiritual" and don't let him feed you that crap.

Having just been through very much the same thing -- after twenty-five years of marriage my husband met someone he decided he'd rather be with, and it took me entirely too long to figure out what was going on -- I'm only sorry that I didn't move much more quickly on getting divorced and starting a new life. In my case the delay wound up costing me significant money. However, the divorce is almost final, I've moved half way across the country, and even though I'm still angry at him for what happened, I know I can have a new and hopefully better life on my own.

And I do miss him in many ways, especially because we could talk about anything and everything, and right now there's no one in my life I can talk with the same way. And there may never be another person like that, but I'm moving on.

The real danger is getting stuck in your feelings about loving him dearly (and that doesn't need to change) and not wanting to lose him. You may have already lost him, and as difficult and painful as it is (how well I know!) you have to start thinking about yourself first.

It's harder than you think and who knows if you'll ever really get over him, but eventually there's peace for you.

[NuttyFluffers]

25. watch Eyes Wide Shut with him, understand the wisdom of Jealousy and emptiness of Lust

it is Envy, not Jealousy, that medieval Christianity considered a sin. why? because envy is wholly unhealthy spite of another being happy. it eats away at both parties in a spiral of venom and destruction. whereas jealousy is, within reason (this is the part people get confused about), a normal response in defense of that which you love. it tries to keep what is loved from harm or stolen; as long as it isn't destructive smothering, which is envy masking as "jealous passion" when it has its victim in its clutches, jealousy has its place in pretty much every relationship.

further, Lust is really boring in the end. yeah, the sex can be great! but just like empty calorie desserts, you can never really eat your fill before getting sick. it's an addiction to new heights while not appreciating the lasting powers of love. stimulation is not love, it's a prelude to an orgasm. love transcends, and lasts, something lust can never do. in the end Lust becomes boring and requires the next twinkie or cupcake to satisfy the craving; but there will never be satisfaction, there is only craving -- a never-ending ache for sensation to fill an ever growing void inside. it is a fool's errand and never ends well.

so go see the movie, or another one if you can think of one with a similarly profound message, and see if that wakes him up from his silly "sweet tooth." if he still needs to back out of your marriage contract, with lawyers and screaming and crying and moving and all, then he is welcome to try. a good fight helps remind people that love and contracts are not made easily -- that's the challenge of a vow. there should be plenty of pain involved, both in getting in it and in getting out, it might make him think twice whether it is worth it, and whether his feelings are more than just petty lust. you'll be surprised how often it's all about unresolved lust confused for real and meaningful and lasting love. sometimes a moment on the lips is forever on the hips...

[Why Syzygy]

30. Great post!

:thumbsup: I'm really enjoying your contributions to the forum!

[midnight]

33. I think that everthing that has been posted here is worthy of

embracing. I wish I could add more to this, but I'm sending you a hug instead.

[Metta]

31. Ya don't have to have sex to be spritual.

In fact, spritual relationships actually deepen once the sexual focus is set aside. What about doing no harm? I hope he wakes up.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

37. Update to the saga that is currently my life.

She doesn't want to see him any longer. She thought that I was more ok with this then I am.

Yesterday before he left to our new venture, I told him that I would meet him for dinner with the kids. So we show up at the restaurant and he tells me she invited him over for dinner and that he would be back in a couple of hours. So I have dinner with the kids and take them home. We were going to meet at a local bar so I hung around the house for about an hour or so, get dressed up to go wait for him.

So I'm waiting, and waiting, and waiting. I didn't want to call him because they would see it as being intrusive. So I txted him to see if he was coming. He txted me back saying he would be there soon and was anything wrong? So I stating thinking what to txt back and he calls me. I go to a quieter part of the bar so I could hear him and speak in private. He doesn't understand why I'm upset and I told him (ok it was more of a "yell at him")to just fuck her so we could get over this and get on with our lives. So he sees me call him (and I think she does too) as a "power play" (his words). That his wife summoned him and he had to leave her. So, I guess this upset her and she never wants to see him. When he told me this, it felt like a boulder was lifted off of my shoulders. He's bummed now because he feels he has lost his chance at reaching his next spiritual level. So, now I have this to contend with. I have to console my husband for loosing his mistress. Sucks for me.

Thank you everyone for all of your advice and words of encouragement. I'm not much of the frying pan type, but I have considered castration.

;-)

[LaurenG]

40. You don't have to console him

I wish I could say so many things but I don't think I could say more than the rest up-thread.

Suffice it to say that your husband may think he's on a "path" and that it's his destiny to do these things and maybe in a certain respect, it is. I would only ask that you take care of you and your feelings because you have a wonderful opportunity to create some lovely boundaries.

Is it OK with you that he did this?

Take very good care of yourself, do what you feel is best for yourself and please don't ever let anyone tell you that they are on a higher spiritual level than you are, it's a load of crap, no higher spiritual being would ever tell you that, much less betray you in this way. :hug:

...betrayal of yourself in order not to betray another

is betrayal nonetheless. It is the Highest Betrayal.

You are not avoiding betrayal by betraying yourself, you

are merely choosing whom to betray.
Neale Donald Walsch

[yankeeinlouisiana]

50. Great quote!

No, I'm not ok with him having a mistress. I finally got him to admit that for all practical purpose and intent he is having an affair, it just hasn't been consummated yet. My biggest fear is that when/if they do have sex he/they will see it as sooo magical it will merely be something else I can't give him.

He was by her house one day and I left a note on his car windshield stating, "if you don't come to me, how can I help you?" I signed it love and my name. We've never talked about that note. I should ask him what he thought. He keeps reassuring me that he's not going to leave me and that he'll always love me, but if we go down this path, things can change. That's my greatest fear.

[BlueIris]

41. Based on this post, I feel I must recommend

therapy. And lots of it. And a divorce attorney. Maybe lots of them.

My condolences on all this, by the way. I think you deserve (much) better.

[I Have A Dream]

42. Of course I don't know all of the details...

but her saying that she never wants to see him again seems as though it might be her power play. It sounds like an ultimatum on her part. I wonder if she's trying to get him to leave you. (It's important for me to say that I might be totally wrong, but when she's acting like the wounded party, it says a lot.) I don't think that this episode is over by any means. I hope that I'm wrong though.

You deserve so much better than to be treated like this. :(

:hug::hug::hug:

[Why Syzygy]

44. This was exactly my impression.

She's the one playing games, and with Yankee's LIFE! That steams me. You're right. We don't know for sure. But I do know for sure people do stuff like that. From everything posted, it does seem she is perfectly okay with taking another woman's husband.

[lildreamer316]

45. This is exactly what I was going to say, word for word.

I don't think it's over, either. By saying what she said, she is either 1) making a power play (calling his bluff); or/and 2) she wasn't that into him and his 'spritual growth' in the first place. Which is something you may want to point out to him, anyway. If she's really interested in helping him spiritually, a call from you would not have deterred her.
Something's rotten in the state of ......

Best of luck. :hug:

[yankeeinlouisiana]

51. Nope, unfortunately you were not wrong

by any means. She called him around 4:00 am this morning. We were still out at a local bar and there's a diner connected to the bar. I told him I was hungry and went and got something to eat. When I came back in the bar he was gone. So, I txt him where was he and he told me he was with some other friends outside. Well, the other friends came back in the bar, but he was still missing. So I txt him back again asking where he was. No reply. So I called him cell phone and it went directly to voice mail. So, I figure he was talking with her. Sure enough, I go outside and he is sitting in his truck talking with someone. I walk over to him and he tells me she called. I said, I figured as much and as I start to walk away I told him to tell her to get over herself. She hung up. I guess a part of me knew it would just be too easy for her to walk quietly into the night. So I still have the boulder, but it doesn't seem as heavy this time.

[I Have A Dream]

55. I'm sorry, yankeeinlouisiana. I was hoping that I was wrong.

:(

:hug::hug:

[PinkTiger]

43. You won't like what I say, probably, but here is my take on this:

You are involved with an immature, childish man who manipulates you in order to get what he wants emotionally. His talk about "spiritual awareness" is to make him sound enlightened and "new age," but in truth he is no different than a host of other people who have manipulated others in relationships. The main problem is that you actually seem to buy in to his abuse and turn it back on yourself. You do need some counseling (don't we all) and I hope you get it so you will stop the pattern. As for him, throw him overboard. If it were me, I would have his bags packed and waiting at the door the next time he comes home. Gently get him out of your life and move forward. He is poison.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

52. I still trust him and I am still willing to believe in him

and give him a chance. We've already gone through the bag packing period. It was over the 4th of July. But we made up and I brought his things back in from the porch and that is when he told me about her.

I know who my husband is. He is very deep and complicated and I knew that before I married him. It's hard to relate all of the integral aspects of our life and marriage and I realize how this must look to the outside world, but I'm willing to hang in there.

[PinkTiger]

56. OK, I get it.

But what about your needs? Who is going to help you with YOUR spiritual experiences? Hmmm?

[Grateful for Hope]

62. Very good point

BTW, I am glad to see you posting here again.

Good to see ya!

[PinkTiger]

65. Thanks Hope.

I will be around all the time, but only posting now and then. I'm not sure I really belong here anymore at DU.

[BlueIris]

60. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Nice to see you again, Pink.

[PinkTiger]

64. Thanks.

I lurk but do not post much. I'm not into Kool-Aid, LOL.

[lildreamer316]

46. Upon reading and re-reading the thread, I have a possible different conclusion.

Of course, I am in no way trying to preach or teach or even say that I have any concept of what you are going through. I certainly don't want to come off as acting like I do. You don't know me from Lilith, and vice versa. I would not presume to say that I know best. With that in mind, this possibility suggested itself:

I was reading Shallah's post #12, where she says: "This just reminds me of people who have flings with their so-called soulmates and try to say it is OK because they needed to complete something from another life, never considering that maybe this time all they needed was to just say NO at the beginning instead of reenacting their love triangle for the umpteenth lifetime."

Maybe this is what is going on here?

I see the fact that instead of just throwing him over immediately when this started, you tried to see if there was some deeper motivation and meaning behind the situation. Is it possible that you are here to give him the chance to make the right choice this time? Maybe your higher self knows this? And that's why you are still seeking a different solution than ending the relationship (as it is now). I believe he needs to realize that the 'higher spiritual person' happens to be right there at home - one who does not react without thinking; one who attempted to see more than one solution to this problem; and one who was more concerned about his spiritual growth at this time than her own. I don't think you get much "higher" than that on this plane, at least not in the usual.

I also put forth that he is falling for the flashy front of spirituality ( a 'guru' who's been around the world training and etc.; 'credentialed'); instead of seeing the spirituality inherent in each person. Spirit expresses itself quietly as well as out loud; in the everyday motions of caring for family and friends; in holding the steady bright light of home. Where else does he think he will find it? Who was it who said if you don't find it within, you won't find it outside (without was the word used, I believe)? Truer words and all that. Centering and growing does not need to be flashy and new; it can come in like fog...on little, quiet cat's feet. You wake up one day and all of a sudden; you realize you are feeling differently about yourself or about life..you've changed your mind, and you didn't even realize it.

The Secret movie says that if you have a partner that you are not happy with, try to focus on the things that you do like about that person, no matter how small...and what you focus on, expands. He might do well to try this also...again, just ideas. YMMV and etc.

With my ex-fiance; he had cheated on me numerous times...and then I on him (tit-for-tat-ing; we were young and stupid!lol). But something always kept me (and him!) coming back to the relationship. For eight years. I remember, one night he asked me why I loved him so much. I had no answer except for that I just did. There sometimes are no 'whys' in love, it just is. People called me naeive and crazy and told me I had no sense of self-worth to continue in such a relationship; but at the end things were really getting better..we were getting closer; committing again; etc. Then, he died in a motorcycle accident.
So I can say with conviction that I know I was here to hold the light for him; to let him know that he was worthy of love no matter what. I had no regrets then, and I have none now. If you think you can look at this situation and say that you have acted true to your heart, then continue to do what it is telling you, no matter what people say.

It is okay to be angry. He needs to learn from your anger that this is no way to treat another spiritual soul. If this is his learning experience, give him the full effect! That's what you both paid for; coming here in these bodies! And if he does not appear to be learning the lesson in the framework of your relationship, then by all means, consider letting him out of it! Don't lose yourself in this, and don't let this be a justification for staying in something that is only detrimental to you and your family.

If you can look in the mirror and know that you are doing what feels right for you, then don't let anyone dissuade you.

I do understand what you are feeling...that knot in your belly. Been there more times than I can count. Do realize that something like this is far more damaging that you may think it is; and take all the time you need to heal.

All my light to you and your family. Best of luck with all of it. I hope I haven't been to foreward.

:hug: :hug:

[yankeeinlouisiana]

48. No you haven't been too forward.

I asked for frank advice and guidance and this post has given me just that. I know we'll get through this and I really feel we still will be together.

Sorry about your loss, but I'm glad you were there for him.

:hug:

[yankeeinlouisiana]

53. I was just re-reading your post and I think you may

be right. She has gone through this before with other married couples and here she is again. I told my husband if she doesn't want to go through this any more, she should stop getting involved with married men. Seems simple enough. We keep repeating lessons in our life until we have finally learned the lesson. Hopefully, I can be her final teacher.

:-)

I have to tread very delicately with this situation, so I won't push my husband away.

I tried doing a tarot card reading a couple of weeks ago and the cards that kept coming up spoke of deceit, vice, weakness, corruption and such. Those were the words that I noticed the most. Here are the cards and question that I asked:

"What will come from mine and her relationship?"

1.) Page of Pentacles; 2.) King of Cups - reversed; 3.) The Lovers; 4.) King of Swords; 5.) King of Pentacles - reversed; 6.) Seven of Swords - reversed; 7.) Eight of Cups - reversed; 9.) Four of Wands - reversed; and 10.) Five of Pentacles - reversed.

If anyone would like to look at this spread and give me their interpretation, that would be much appreciated.

My husband thinks under different circumstances, she and I could be great friends and we all have a lot to learn from each other. I just pray he is right.

[I Have A Dream]

57. OK, here's the question. Would he be OK with you acting the way he is?

Does he have different rules for himself than he has for you?

[Grateful for Hope]

58. Oh my goodness, Dream

I was going to ask this exact question. I am glad I read your post first.

A very, very valid question, IMO.

[I Have A Dream]

59. Yeah, it had to be asked. It's the next logical question.

Is what's good for the goose, good for the gander in his eyes?

:shrug:

(:hi:, Hope!)

[Grateful for Hope]

61. Hi Dream

:hi: back at ya! And, :hug:

That question definitely had to be asked. Most, most definitely.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

63. If I asked him that question he would say, of course I

would support you and he would say he wouldn't be jealous or worried. But that's all in theory. I'm not really sure how he would react if I did this in real life. He's always teased me that he would want pictures and details though. ;-)

He is much more of a free-thinker than I when it comes to sex.

[davsand]

66. There is not one bit of this that is "spiritual" in my opinion.

I'm gonna sound like some cranky old lady here, but there is not ONE aspect of this that has much to do with spirituality.

You guys are married--right? You sound like you have a personal opinion that marriage is an exclusive thing between the people involved--that your expectation was that it was an exclusive relationship. From what I am understanding of all this he is out there running around and it is upsetting you and probably your kids too (he blew you and the kids off for dinner?!!)

You two have got to get your shit together and you better do it PDQ.

If you are ok with him getting some on the side--then that is between you two and you don't get to object when he's out without you. If you decide you are ok with it--and it is YOUR call to make, not just his--then you need to not be dragging the kids or anyone else into the middle of it.

If you are NOT ok with an open marriage, then you need to assert that NOW--in no uncertain terms--and you need to stand by it, even if it means kicking his butt to the curb.

I'm gonna get really crass here, but stepping out on your partner without their blessing has jack to do with your (or anyone's) spiritual growth and everything to do with a lack of respect in that relationship. His lack has created pain for you, and it is now up to YOU to pull your hand out of that particular fire.

My advice is to tell him to cut the "soul" crap and that you two have a very frank discussion about what you each need/desire from your marriage.

Sorry if I managed to offend, but this all smacks of emotional manipulation.



Laura