OK, Now that I've started this mess re: 12th house...

[ricochetastroman]

Seriously, I feel like I really understand 11 signs of the zodiac, i.e., what makes them tick at an archtypally (sp?) level. But what makes GEMINI tick?
Really? Why are they assigned to the Twins? Why do they shift back and forth? Why do they seem to stop in mid-stream and objectify you? What are they trying to escape? Why do they hate being "nailed down?"

Mostly, what gives them the sense of clear-cut duality? Your thoughts?

[BlueIris]

1. I have a hard time understanding Gemini, too.

Even though three close friends of mine have been Geminis.

For me, it's not so much the dual-personality thing I don't get, (I understand their duality pretty well, though it can be hard to predict which half of it I'm dealing with on any given day) as it is their occasional propensity for detatchment. Geminis detatch from their emotions so completely sometimes, they come off as callous to me. I hate that.

[LaurenG]

2. I have a Gemini moon and I don't like the way it works

I feel things very deeply but I have a hard time displaying that. I'm OK talking about it but I do come across as detached, (which I'm not at all, inside at least btw). The other thing it does is try to analyze the feelings which makes me crazy as I have to go in and check for logic first instead of just feeling the feelings.

I always thought it was my upbringing, you know people telling us we have no right to feel things and express them. I am beginning to think Gemini is the reason though. Also, I wasn't sure about your remark about the 12th house so for clarification my Gemini is in the 11th.

I also have a very detached Gemini brother, he thinks he's perfect though which makes him even harder to deal with, lol.

[BlueIris]

4. Oh, God, Gemini superiority.

Can't stand it. Can't. I mean, maybe you just meant that your brother has a strong opinion of himself, which is fine, but the thing that always bugged me the MOST about my Gemini friends? The smug superiority which was just impenetrable at times. Especially the Gemini I was friends with in college. I always wanted to scream, "'Kay, you're a genius, but you're not perfect." Like that would have done any good.

[stellanoir]

3. Hey guess what. . .?

Based solely on this thread title, we all get to blame all our 12th house messes and entanglements on rick henceforth and heretofore. . .Okay. . .?

Kidding of course.

Seriously though, from my obtuse perspective, the Mercurial trickster rulership of airy Gemini is of a very different "flavor" than that of Virgo.

My Mercury in Virgo has gotten into a slew of silly discussions with people with Mercury in Gemini. They pretty much go like this. . .

Mercury in Gemini- "Well there are two different angles to any issue."

Me-"What about all the infinite others. . .?"

The Gemini orientation is often one of dualism. The Virgo orientation often proverbially gets so immersed in complexity it "cannot see the forest through the trees."

These discussions are truly exercises in futility as they undercurrent is "who's Mercury is better than who's" which is of course is completely immeasurable.

Funny. . . though I've had these sorts of discussions for ages, my Son is a Gemini with Mercury in Gemini and he and I have luckily never fallen into such pointless discussions. Phew.

[ricochetastroman]

6. OK here goes Gemini

My 12th house comment meant that since I started the thread on trying to figure out the 12th house...

I like this discussion so far: responding to the idea of detachment, being inpenetrable and/or superior:

Gemini it seems to me to have such a huge fear of getting stuck down in the depths of following a subject to it's greatest depth (such that Aquarius does) that they fear what they are missing on the surface as a Flutterby... They just can't miss the next episode, the next party, the next discovery by wasting their time down deep. And I think that really frustrates them because they actually want to know everthing. Their need for "horizontal" knowledge is just as intense as the final Air sign, Aquarius' need for "vertical" knowledge. This is also, I believe why they are accused (and many times fairly) as being unfeeling.

They also get a bad rap - they DO feel, they just can't afford the time to dilly-dally! Anyhow, it seems that they often can't stand being found out as to how shallow they can be. So, they come back at you with barbs, criticism, or even attack. They accuse you of being too serious when they're being light, and vice-versa. They avoid, change the subject, whatever, anything to keep from being nailed down. Again, being nailed down causes them to lose time on the "find the next Waldo-meter".

The "superiority" thing, to me, is simply an outgrowth of this ego-protection so they can avoid being trapped or being seen for the young soul that they reflect at the archetype level. Since the soul archetype has just come from the ever-fresh ARIES state and has gotten grounded in the TAURUS state, the Gemini is obsessed with butterflying around... Thank GOD for them...because of them, the world has three important things:

1. a mind
2. the ability to communicate
3. the democratic underground

Here is where I'm stuck:

They seem to quickly and abruptly go from being subjective ("there" or "present" in a one-on-one conversation with you) and then suddenly, they flip to OBJECTIFYING you. (Yes, my Mother was born June 1., waaaa) It's almost as if during those moments that they're not even related to you! You're under a microscope. I DON'T THINK IT IS INTENTIONAL. I think it is part and parcel of their job as the 3rd sign, i.e., their need to explore facts, do data-collection and classify things. So, it looks like, in the middle of them "being a person", they stop to do classification work! Yes, that can make the object (the other person) feel inanimate, but I just think it's their need. So, as I continue to talk to myself here... I may be getting closer to what I sense...

Therefoe, the two Twins are:
1. The "normal" subjective person
2. The one that periodically and continuously "checks out" in order to objectively watch life and categorize it. (Afterall the archetype level of Cancer is next where the soul gets baked in the oven, add a heavy dose of emotions, and viola, a whole person comes out ready for a fresh Ego in Leo.)

Does any of this plethora of blab-blab make any sense?

Signed,
Son of Gemini

[stellanoir]

8. Well as to the objective/subjective thingy. . .and the number 3. . .

In numerology the number three is perhaps the most creative though also the most volatile.

The best metaphor I've ever found for that quality might sound a bit prosaic. . .it's one of a firefly. One a chemical level when they light up they are actually juggling a phosphate, going from adenosine diphosphate to adenosine triphosphate. They become illuminated when holding three phosphates and go dark when they are holding two.

Similarly, the three is comprised of the two previous concurrent numbers. It is unique in that regard. The one is representative of the self (conscious-spirit). The two is often representative of the other (unconscious-soul.)

I think you may gleen some of the objective/subjective oscillation in that. I do anyhoo.

Love the "find the next Waldo-meter" line. LOL

Signed,
the mom of a Gemini (he thankfully has a Cancer Moon though)

ps-I was just goofing around about you referring to your 12 th house thread as "a mess." I thought it was great fun really.

[ricochetastroman]

12. Stella, goofing around, nah...

Yes, I know you were funnin, no prob.
Interesting thought you have about III. I didn't know he was chemical though?!
So, why, what triggers them to go from Subjective to Objective like an oscillator?

Can't figure.:crazy:

[stellanoir]

14. The three is ungrounded though it can be centered.

It's unhealthy manifestations can include what is often perceived as bi polar disorder and unemployment.

Creative genius/craziness is faily notorious.

The four (the numerological cornerstone- Saturnine) is the first of the three worldy, and two physical numbers.

An uncentered three is constantly going back and forth between the one and the two.

Contemplate the fundamental duality as represented in the Yin Yang symbol. . .

Here's what I wrote about it last year but have been saying for decades. . .

(please excuse any redundancy ladies but rick hasn't seen this)

". . .Consider also being squiggle in the middle of Yin Yang symbol because at the
center of the white is black, at the center of black is white.

'Round and 'round we incessantly go.

That is the trap of dualism, and why it is far more fun to be
the squiggle in the middle. The dark is simply as sacred as the light.

Problems arise when imbalances and repression and resulting deviance occur
through an unbalanced relationship between the two extremes and not by the fault or
exclusive virtue of one or the other. (lots more on that later)

The Yin Yang symbolizes a gateway to upper universes FYI, or is at the
very least one of them. There are many, and are several such symbols for
every faith and culture. Though the uncircled cross is a symbol, most
crucifying and damning for many. It simply has no flow. Maybe start
circling that around. . ."

A centered three is akin to the squiggle in the middle, having balance between their left and right brains, their male and female selves, the light and the shadow, the known and the unknown. . .etc.

An uncentered three is oscillating wildly between those factors and influences at dizzying speed, sort of like "Mr toad's wild ride" and going "help Mr. Wizard !!!" all the way.

Does that help???

If not I'll rephrase.

[ricochetastroman]

17. Thanks Stella

Yes, I think that does help. Breaking it down, back to the 'three' really does help. I perceive that is why "four" or Cancer is so "nest-bound?"

Good stuff again Stell.

Gemini may very well be the most intriguing sign of the first six.

[ricochetastroman]

18. Hmm...

Oscillating...hmmm...

and yet this YinYang-staring, looking back and forth at the duality, is somehow different than the constant paradoxes that Aquarius perceives.

Different rules for different types of Ping-pong, I reckon.

[stellanoir]

19. Bingo

Aquarians are like. . .

>>>>>>>>>>insert finest valley girl accent here

. . .like so-o-o multidimensional. LOL

[ricochetastroman]

20. STELLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAA !! I coulda been somebody....

Like I KNOW what you MEAN about Aquarians, like they're TOTALLY COOL like way out and into paradoxes and pairs of jeans and like SO radical and like into the opposites of this n'that and really not like Gemini's like ya know?

Like, I coulda been a contender or something.

[stellanoir]

21. wows

I'm not sure if I've been out "valley girled" or out "Stalloned."

Did you ever hear that his mom was an astrologer. Sounded like an old school fatalist but an astrologer nontheless.

Too funnily peculiar really.

[ricochetastroman]

22. OMG

Oh My Gawd, to use Stallone as a verb! How awesome is that... that even one-ups my "Waldo" line for today! Hee hee.

Yeh, and I heard that Frank Zappa's mother invented "white-out" too. I just wish someone would invent a "stickie" that you didn't have to assist with scotch tape. Geesh. :banghead:

[stellanoir]

23. Nah it wasn't Zappa's mom

It was Mike Nesmith's mom of the dubious Monkee's fame who created white out. Wick and I knew his second wife for a while. He was the only musician in the group but. . .well. . .never mind.

They did a cool music video early on called "Elephant Parts" though.

[ricochetastroman]

24. Anyhow...

what were we saying about Gemini?

[stellanoir]

25. Gemini's have no frigging mental focus. . .OKAY ???

But Virgo's derail threads far better so there.

:rofl:

[BlueIris]

26. THANK YOU.

I know you were making a funny, but--that's one thing I can't STAND about Gemini.

[ricochetastroman]

27. Thank you Blue Iris

I'm trying to pump some life back into this thread. I know what you mean about Gemini... but the point is...

Why do they flip back and forth? There's a reason. Insight is required here. It's such a universal thing, especially with the female gender Geminis. Why are they matched to TWINS when all other signs are matched to one single thing?

I like what Stella said about the "three" watching the duality of the "two", back and forth, ping-ponging. But, that's not enough yet. There is more to the story.

Wick? Where are you when we need you?
-r

[stellanoir]

28. Wick's a Gemini rising so she's probably flittering about somewhere. LOL

Some astrologers do consider all the air signs as dual though, by virtue (or detriment) of their symbols all having separate lines, unlike all the other elements.

It's kinda curious for sure.

[ricochetastroman]

29. separate line!

kinda sounds like cocaine usage to me!

how cool is that? I never realized the Gemini/Libra/Aquarian glyphs....

can I refer to that in my newsletter? OR, do I have to pay you too?

Then why is my poor GOAT symbol so twisted?
And what are you doing with your Virgo legs crossed?

As a matter of fact, I was trying to put specific info in last month's newsletter on the history of the glyphs in astrology. I couldn't find a good website on that - do you know of one?

Maybe I'll make up my own, what the hell.:rant:

[emcguffie]

31. Could a stranger inquire where your Mercury resides? NT

[ricochetastroman]

32. 18 Sagittarius NT

[wickfordbard]

39. Gemini's flip back and forth because . . . ta! ta!

because they're not trying to catagorize you, they're trying to catagorize themselves. Through catagorizing you and the outside world, then comparing themselves to what they discover, they figure out what 's important to know and what isn't. Also, they are constantly meeting their shadows in the people they meet, so they're comparing themselves. that's the flip - first it's all about you and then they understand something about themselves and project it on you.

Wow, where did that come from?

:hurts: :hurts: :nopity: :nopity: :spank: :spank: :wow: :wow:

W

[emcguffie]

30. Stanley?

(I played Stella once, a long time ago....)

[Morgana LaFey]

35. Fear?

Nahhh. Just don't want to suffer insane boredom. Who needs an in-depth understanding of anything when you can have "enough" understanding of it superficially, and then go on to something else, something more interesting. Of course, i didn't know your mother, maybe she DID have the fear you describe.

I actually hate Gemini, but have my Sun in the 3rd house so... what does that make me? Smile. And my Mercury is in there too, trine Uranus in, you guessed it, Gemini.

I just don't want to get bogged down with details when I hate details and there are people who ENJOY them (like good Virgoans, for example). And the people who LOVE details are made and put on earth specifically to get involved with those details, so again, why should I bother, butterfly that I am?

[ricochetastroman]

36. Dear Fearless

You are right... why should you bother. But what makes you a Twin, is the question.

[Morgana LaFey]

43. Wellllll...

the house placement gives a strong flavor of the natural sign for that house. I have Sun in 3rd, Gemini's natural house. That gives me a Geminian flavor. Someone else pointed out there are 12 flavors of Gemini, well the same is true in other ways.

Wish it weren't the case -- in many ways I think I'd have been a lot happier with less Gemini influence -- but there it is.

[Why Syzygy]

5. I was married to a Gemini

for 13 years. I never noticed any of the things mentioned on this thread. I experienced his duality as passive aggression. We could have plans, but if his family came up with something different, he would toss ours aside and go with theirs. I hated that. He never expressed original ideas, even though his job entailed coming up with creative solutions and building things to specification. He was very good at it. He was a hard worker. But he didn't have a strong sense of when someone was not treating him fairly. I got very weary after all those years of having responsibility for everything from financial planning to social interactions and the emotional direction of our relationship. He wasn't a leader at all. I'm Leo, so I took it all on, but as I said, it got old. When we split up, we had a 'last dinner', and he said, "do you know what I think"? I said, "No. I would love to know what you think". He said, "Never mind". !!!! (insert scream) He was faithful and the most loyal person I have ever known. His family thought he walked on water and was made of gold. He was the baby with two older sisters. That used to frustrate me because I lived with him day in day out, and he was not perfect. It made the situation very divisive. I felt that he never actually switched his loyalty from his family to ours. His niece and nephew were also Geminis. Of course the other planets influence is unknown ...

Later, I had a Gemini bf. He was very expressive, though still easily led. He had almost the same type of attachment to his family of origin. We had nothing in common, other than sex, so that was just a passing involvement.

Over all, I found them to be immensely entertaining.

[ricochetastroman]

7. Vote, late of Geminiland

I know nothing of them being changeable regarding their families. Interesting to note. Of course they are entertaining. I will say this no other sign has such a huge discrepancy between the men and women. I find Gemini men much different than the women. Gemini men seem to be much more laid back.

[Why Syzygy]

9. Another thing

about both of them .. they never met a 'stranger'. They would just as soon strike up a conversation with the cashier at the check out line as talk to an intimate friend. I can't think of any Gemini women, other than the niece. She was very emotional and fought with her brother constantly.

Laid back and never afraid to act the fool. When I was with the bf, we lived in a small town. EVERYONE knew him. He had a "rooster act". Literally. That was his nicname, and he was proud of it. Wherever we went, people begged him to do it. He turned his cap around and strutted and crowed. I left the premises when that started. When we went to his company Christmas party, I knew people would expect his 'show'. I let him know I would be leaving pronto if he caved into their demands, so that one time he resisted. The ex-dh didn't mind looking silly either, but never to that extreme. He was very attractive, but never thought of himself that way. No vanity or shyness at all. Is that due to their youngish soul development?

When you say 'not changeable regarding their families' .. what do you mean?

[ricochetastroman]

10. Gemini II

Many of his characteristics seem to me to be because of the rest of his chart.
"never thought of himself as attractive", yes, I do believe it is because of their "boyishness". As an example, see the actor Michael J. Fox. We must be careful here. This whole phrase that I use "soul development" is not to imply that they are less than or less developed. It is a FEEL they have, that they give off. It's just that at that stage the feel is one of boyishness, i.e., young. Don't want to offend anyone - some of the most profound thinkers I have ever met were Geminian.

[ricochetastroman]

11. Family

the "family thing" was in reference to aforementioned family issues above.
They want to play and explore, it's that simple.

[NMDemDist2]

15. my husband of 13 years is a Gemini

it's a good match, he has his moon in my sun sign and my moon is in Gemini

he's funny, smart and loving but moody sometimes. the earth sign moon makes him very disciplined and practical

he's a keeper lol :bounce:

[wickfordbard]

13. Even with Gemini there are 12 different ways they manifest

Let's not forget that Gemini's manifest according to their moon sign as well.

I know some Gemini's who are totally controlled by their emotions - being friendly one day and distant another (crescent moon types). I also know Gemini's who are wise in the ways of the world and who do soul-search and go deep (balsamic types).

A good friend of Stella's and mine call Gemini's Versatile. They are here on earth to discover how fascinating life is. So they do skim the surface, although they can also dive deep.

I also like the idea from Greek mythology that Geminis are the divine and human twins - they are here to discover how the mind works. Tricksters as well as messengers.

[ricochetastroman]

16. Thanks Wick

We're on to something here. I rarely find the ones that "dive deep". And if I do, it's certainly indicated by other chart constructs. However, I find this referral to balsamic and crescent types of vinegar interesting. I've not followed much of these moon phases that Rudhyar talks about. What is the balsamic phase? What is a Gemini with Moon in Taurus?

Yes, I find they are here to explore - and to see how the mind works, but why do they flip from subject to object and back in forth? There has to be an underlying function to it.

[Chemical Bill]

33. Gee wizz...

Geminis go from one POV to another for the pure joy of exploration. They go from subjective to objective and back just because they need a change. Think of it this way: Aries is the infant, Taurus the toddler, Gemini the child old enough to learn and explore but too young to place any judgment on any of it. It's all interesting.

You Sagittarian types want to study the depths of whatever interests you, and that fails you with Gemini, as they aren't known for depth. This is just too simple for your complex mind. There is no underlying function!

Hope that helps.

Bill

[ricochetastroman]

34. Hey Bill

I like what you have to say. I see Gemini the toddler who is "too young" to placae any judgement on it...but they certainly do place judgement, and lots of it. It certainly can be argued that they "don't mean anything by it", but I often wonder.

I'm not sure that there isn't an underlying function...

Your input does help, but why the Twins?

[stellanoir]

37. I've already said this

THE TWINs are about fundamental duality. Yin Yang and 'round and 'round we go.

Hang out with spirited three year olds and you'll see it. They are delightfully spirited and volatile.

Or as a funny friend once started singing when our kids were three. "I'm three, I'm three, I'm three"
funnily mocking the Who's "I'm Free" lyrics.

LOL

[ricochetastroman]

38. I Won't Get Fooled Again... NT

[Chemical Bill]

41. Judgment.

OK, I was incorrect. I should have said pre-judgment. The certainly give immediate feedback on whether something is good or bad, but in general can go into a situation and take it on it's merits. Is that better? Plus, everybody has a complex chart, with many possible influences that temper or support the sun sign.

BTW, I have Mercury in Gemini (in th ninth house), Venus in Gemini, Saturn in the third house, and the north node in the third in Sagittarius, which places the south node in Gemini in the ninth. I consider myself fluent in Gemini and Sagittarius.

Bill

[wickfordbard]

40. Balsamic Moon is the old crescent moon rising before Sunrise

Finishing up old business. Much like the 12th house. Can be wisdom aspect. Moon in Taurus, Gemini sun is balsamic moon. Moon in Gemini, Sun in Cancer is balsamic moon.

As I said in another post,

"gemini's go back and forth because they're not trying to catagorize you, they're trying to catagorize themselves. Through catagorizing you and the outside world, then comparing themselves to what they discover, they figure out what 's important to know and what isn't. Also, they are constantly meeting their shadows in the people they meet, so they're comparing themselves. that's the flip - first it's all about you and then they understand something about themselves and project it on you."

In making a comparison, they figure out what they're interested in nd what they're not. Then they tuck away the info to show that they know things. The messanger.

I'm always late. I wonder if you'll even see this.

come back. . . . . ..........

[ricochetastroman]

42. Yes, 10 4, I see it

Very interesting. Kinda compares closely to Libra who I believe, uses the Scales as a source of comparison - much as you describe.

You make a lot of sense to me. I'll ponder it more. Thanks

[cassiepriam]

44. I think the best way to get a feel for a sign or planet is to go back

to the very beginning. Ancient Roman, Greek, Chinese myths.
And to really get into the meaning of the glyph.

The ancients did not have the veil that we do, so they were much more
in touch with our spiritual connection to the stars.

From: http://www.eastbayastro.org/articles/lore/gemini.htm
<<In ancient China the twin stars of our modern constellation
Gemini were the twin symbols of the eternal contrasts throughout life, Yin and Yang. Elements of mystery, Yin is the feminine principle, water, cold and dark, winter and the Moon; while Yang is masculine, fire, heat and light, summer and the Sun. They complement each other, and together they constitute the power of the seasons, the elements, the world above and the world below, and all of humanity.>>

http://users.winshop.com.au/annew/Gemini.html
>>In Roman and Greek mythology the Gemini Twins are Castor and Pollux. The Twins were warlike heroes who were especially honored by seafaring people. They were considered to be the protectors of sailors and were supposed to rid the high seas of buccaneers and pirates.

The twins spent their time raiding cattle and abducting young women. During one such cattle raid a cousin (Idas) became enraged at Castor and killed him. Zeus threw a thunderbolt at Idas, killing him.
Since Pollux was the son of Zeus, he was immortal. But Pollux mourned over his brother's loss to such a point that he wanted to follow Castor into Hades. Pollux beseeched Jupiter to let him die too; as the Twins were inseparable, the one could not live without the other. But an immortal cannot die. Zeus was so stricken by Pollux's love for his brother, he allowed them both to share Hades and Olympus, on alternate days. Jupiter allowed Pollux to spend one day among the gods and the other in Hades, the Underworld, with his beloved brother.>>

http://www.novareinna.com/constellation/gemini.html
<<The symbol...or glyph...of Gemini resembles the Roman numeral II. It is representative of twins, as well as the possibility of choice between good and evil. In Vedic Astrology, this glyph symbolizes the manifestation of the Spirit as it enters the phase of duality. As thought reflects the subject...the object expression of Spirit...the glyph becomes an apt representation of the divison of Spirit and is indicative of polarity. Within the material world or manifested state, all things oscillate between the positive and negative...up and down...right and wrong...in and out, etc. The two vertical lines are also said to represent, as division, the male and the female. Thus, in a sense, the act of reproduction is governed first by Gemini.>>

[ricochetastroman]

45. Hey Cass

thanks for the great info
now, we have some MEAT in this discussion :freak:

[cassiepriam]

46. Really helps me. For example cannot really understand Pluto unless you

understand Persephone.

[ricochetastroman]

47. Aw, go glif yourseff

Hey Cass
do you know where I can find a site that describes what the glyphs mean?
Such as Capricorn, Virgo, etc.?