link to Starlight news latest...continued....

[Desertrose]

from Nancy Waterman......
Nov 6 - "Out of the Ashes" continued
http://starlightnews.com

"Despite his glorious and likely fraudulent victory, George Bush is under some difficult planetary configurations at present. I took these to indicate his failure to win the presidency, but it would seem they indicate instead a very burdensome and troubled time for his administration. One can hope the cries of fraud will reach a fevered pitch and forever tarnish, if not topple, his tenure. Minimally, they should cast a dark shadow and enable significant possibilities in voting reform. The coming battle in Iraq to secure Fallujah may also be tainted by the difficult aspects in the Bush and Inaugural charts in the coming weeks. From November 8 through December 7, Saturn will recross Bush’s natal Saturn, square his progressed Venus, and cross the Inaugural IC. Something will weigh heavily upon him and not unfold to his liking. With the last phase of Pluto opposing the US Mars continuing through November 25, Bush’s troubles would seem to be connected to our increased military aggression and the partisan civil war that continues unabated (currently exacerbated by the voting fraud scandal)."

more.....

[LWolf]

1. I can see this so clearly.

May that "fevered pitch" topple this whole house of cards soon, so that the world can move forward.

[Eloriel]

2. Man, somethin' has to. And the sooner the better.

What a great image, LWolf! I love it. Did you do it? Adorable.

[LWolf]

3. I didn't do it, I just found it.

And it seemed so appropriate. I have a big tub of sidewalk chalk; Now I'll have to do my own!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. It is still great :-)

[liberalnurse]

8. I hope you don't mind.....

I saved the picture.....

Very moving.

[loudsue]

5. Hi everyone!! I'm back!! The husband came home and we did dinner...

and he's turned in for the night....so here I am!!

This is such a gift of a GROUP :grouphug: !!!

I'm really looking forward to our times together here. Thanks to everyone who helped bring it together....Desertrose, :yourock: you did well!!!

I'm going to run over to the political stuff....I'll check back in later. :hi:

[DemExpat]

6. We made it! What a joy!

Our own wonderful place....

:hi:

DemEx

[Lindsey]

7. Thanks DR and all else involved in creating this!!!!!

I was so worried about our special place, "The meeting Room" but I feel this will be an even better place(now I can take the only two people who I've EVER had on ignore off)!

[MoonAndSun]

9. I was thinking of this particular sentence from Nancy's post

With the last phase of Pluto opposing the US Mars continuing through November 25, Bush’s troubles would seem to be connected to our increased military aggression



with all of the news about other parts of Iraq erupting while our soldiers are in Falluja, and then this post about *'s weekly radio address, I sincerely hope that * will get his due, and soon.



<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x986088>



snip> WASHINGTON - President Bush on Saturday painted a rosy picture of the situation in Iraq, claiming significant progress in the U.S. military's battle in an insurgent stronghold

[Dulcinea]

10. Cheney has been sent to the hospital!

Any thoughts, anyone???

[Pallas180]

11. I hope they give him Vioxx. ( think about it) the latest news

on the latest news is that the scientist who discovered those meds
are giving heart attacks has been rejected from joining a White House panel/research cause he let the cat out of the bag about the harm
this med does.


On Edit

Well that, wasn't spiritual, but it sure would be karmic due!

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. the same thing I said in another thread

I have no room for empathy, for him or his family.. not wishing him ill, or good, just no empathy

Oh and he has a cold... how convenient... Paging Yury Andropov... who also HAD a cold.

[Nancy Waterman]

13. I heard about three words of *'s speech today and turned him off.

It is a disaster over there but he tells the fans what they want to hear. And the Dems are all so shell shocked they probably aren't even on TV refuting him. Not many people I know can even bear to watch the news anymore.

We have been in a major war with Bush since January 20, 2001, when he began to disassemble our democracy. We just lost a major battle, perhaps the war. It is not at all clear what to do next. But one interesting fact is that the coming Inaugural chart makes me think we won't be at war with him in the same way. My own thoughts are turning to trying to create change locally, beginning with dumping our aberation of a Republican governor in 2006. For the moment, my heart has gone out of my fight against *. It may return when he does his next egregious act, but for now I feel hollow inside where all that rage used to be.

[KoKo]

14. "Hollow in side where all that rage used to be." Same here. I wonder

what that means. I hope it doesn't mean acceptance of our terrible fate under these people. That's what has me worried. What's next. I was very involved locally...am as disillusioned with that effort as I am with our national involvment.

The vote count/fraud is all that's keeping me going. I am fighting wanting to throw up my hands and never having anything to do with politics again. I'm not getting anyone I worked with here to take the vote fraud seriously or even what happened in our own state which had "early voting" turning away many people and a lack of organization which things very hard for those of us who were trying to be active in the grassroots effort of getting out the vote and making changes that would help us be more effective. There isn't any support amongst those folks for what I'm feeling having been on DU since the "Selection." I find those folks out there don't know what I know from the information we discuss here.

I even had one of our GOTV/ACT officials say: "We can't do anything about voting problems until the Reporters get on it." I almost passed out on the floor. Had to bite my tongue to keep from shouting: "REPORTERS???WHAT F**ing REPORTERS!...Bush OWNs THE MEDIA!

The lack of knowledge about the way the Republicans work amongst my own state's fellow Democrats is what's so disheartening. But, maybe to them I would seem too harsh and strident, if I told them what I really know. And, maybe all the terrible things I know people just will never want to hear. Maybe we will all just learn to accept that for whatever reason these thugs and theives run the country...will run it forever and we will have to adjust our lifestyles accordingly to cope with it or go mad. I hope that's not the case. I hope my own "hollowness" inside will go away with time. But, I can't watch any television and can't read any articles about Iraq and can only read about the recount and the efforts being made and donate what I can to those who are making the effort. If that effort fails what is there left? I've changed throughout all this, I've lost contact with friends and family members, and there's no way I will be the same person to repair those differences we have.

It's very hard for so many of us. I have to hope we can grieve and move on and come through this somehow and find our own way to some kind of "co-existence" without complicity. Find new ways of moving forward that have nothing to do with Political Parties or Politics at all. It's hard to live in Media/Consumer Oriented America as a hermit. I hope it won't come to that for me, but being assaulted with Bush messages and manipulation is intolerable to me and probably many thousands after this lastest election. And being a "fringe folk" for four years going to anti-war protests, protesting Bush and Cheney and hasn't seemed to have achieved anything. At least our efforts locally with this election elected 22 Democrats out of 28 Candidates who ran for Judgeships, House Seats and the rest. For that accomplishment I and others can feel proud. Maybe it's just grassroots that will see the most accomplishments. The "Big Picture" is out of our hands for now. :shrug:

[Nancy Waterman]

15. The positive thing that sticks in my mind from this election

is the stem cell referendum passed in California. It makes me wonder if we just have to focus locally for now for all of our progressive activites, and hope eventually the rest of the nation follows suit. I would like to see some state stem cell monies allocated in Maryland, too, though I don't know how to push for it. I would also like to see us (and maybe some other blue states) start to shift our schoolbuses and public buses over to hydrogen fuel. The federal government will do nothing on these matters, but maybe it is time to focus on the state governments. I don't know where else to go with these election reuslts.

[KoKo]

21. Interesting you say that Nancy. I had almost forgotten that our States DO

have individual power under the Consitution. When I heard about California allowing more Stem Cell Research I wondered myself if we can do locally what the Bush Govt. doesn't want us to. And can we amend some of the Homeland Security Fascis tactics and do something with health insurance on our own in our states.

"All Politics is Local" some famous person said...and maybe that's what we need to do. Try to make it more local and do what we can for our own in each state bypassing the Bushies. It would mean really high State taxes though...there's always an opposition to that..but the Bushies managed to do the impossible...maybe we can also. :shrug: It's something to think about..anyway.

[2Design]

23. There is already a backlash to the calif stem cell thing -

something about it doesn't need fed funds or others funds if it is going to get them from calif.

[Nancy Waterman]

24. Do you have an article about that, 28erl?

I have only seen one thing that basically said the California stem cell plan makes it less likely the feds will come up with funds, perfering the states to do it, as Ca now has shown they can.

But then you don't have the expertise and the stature of NIH sanctioning the studies.

[2Design]

25. Nancy - it was one article shortly after the measure clearer in ca

It is funny I read so much - I bookmark - but I could never find something in all the book marks I have - I don't know how others find things so quickly - I save a lot and can never find it - have no idea what I might have filed it under

maybe someone can figure the right search for
stem cells fed funding reduced ca initiative passed

not sure what to search for or under

[belle]

27. I think the hollow feeling is natural, and probably temporary.

I mean, the election was *just* two weeks ago. We've been knocked on our asses. It's not a surprise that people aren't ready to leap right back to their feet. That doesn't mean we never will.

I don't think--at least, I hope, but I also genuinely don't think--this is the permanent descent of apathy for a lot of us. i think we're just resting, emotionally, you know?

[hlthe2b]

17. yes, "feel hollow inside where rage used to be...."

that captures it totally, but unfortunately it leads to many of us directing our frustrations inward with paralysis being the result....

[Nancy Waterman]

18. I think we are in the limbo between death and rebirth right now

The new birth will come, but we aren't there yet.

[saracat]

19. I am not there yet. I cannot accept Bush.

I still feel nausea and rage when I see him, so I try not to see him. I am , albeit with feeling a bit discouraged , trying to work within the Dem Party. Nancy, do you see anything happening Dec. 13th? I had heard the Black Caucus was going to protest and that the Dem. Sen.(not Graham) from Florida had agreed to sign on, and now I hear nothing.

[Pallas180]

22. Very understandable & the same as most who worked hard to have K&E elected

In Florida, Boca and surrounding areas in Palm Beach County,
some people are being treated for Post Trauma Distress Syndrome and
listlessness.

Some are feeling a sense of hopelessness.

I won't be working for the democratic party in the future...if there
is a democratic party...and that's questionable. If dimson has moved to have Liberals and those who are not loyal to him, purged from government agencies, as reported in Newsday, that is just the start.

Astrologers tend to develop very intuitive senses and many of us have long been comparing dimson to Hitler. His campaigns with veins popping and shouting and pounding the podium - either are copycat or
seriously dangerous. I tend to believe the latter at this point.

It's time to think of security, economic, psychological, physical for
family and self as Pluto approaches both the Galactic Center and Capricorn.

[Nancy Waterman]

16. Saturn conjunct US Mercury

This article talks about the lack of foreigners purchasing US securities in early September. this was the first crossing of Saturn to US Mercury. this aspect will return in early january. Watch for round two.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&e=6&u=/latimests/dollarsdeclineisreverberating

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. :-)

Personal note, I called my broker the other day and told him, look I don't believe this gov'ment will pay its debt so get me out of T Bills

First reaction was, I woudl not go that far

So I mentioned Norquist, and his statements

When I was done, he said, I just hope not too many people are paying that close atention for it could lead to a crash.

Hey I took Grover Norqist at his word... seems my broker did not like that... and woudl Grover lie? (Only to get into power folks)

[loudsue]

26. Nadin, I've been mostly away from DU for a couple of days...what did

Grover Norquist say?? It must have been something pretty outlandish for you to talk of it this way to your broker. Do you have a link? Or maybe just a run-down?

Of course, just about everything that comes at me via the news these days seems to get more outlandish by the syllable!!

:kick:

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Two years ago he said, and I am parapphrasing

that the intent was to ride the debt so high that the governemnt would be killed in it... and all social programs and all other big gov'ment programs would have to be killed because the gov'ment woudl noto be able to pay for it

Ok, nice, so this is the Republican mandate and why we have debt ceilings rising every day... well I am not waiting for them to say, sorry chums, we can't pay it... chapter 11... so I recalled my debt

To be honest why do you thihnk so many foreign money manageres have quietly been pulling away from OUR debt? They too are paying attention

[JPace]

35. I truly believe that financial ruin is what will in the long run

save our nation. Something has to stop the insanity of this administration and the ignorance of the citizens who's irrational voting puts them in office. When we are broke, bankrupt, insolvent and everyone is suffering from its repercussions that truth will finally wipe the color off those rose colored glasses. When we are broke the military budget will have to be deeply slashed and at last through humble new beginnings we can start rejoining the world with new sensibility.
This site offers the grim financial picture ahead of us:
http://www.g2mil.com/Oct2003.htm

Anyone who supports increased US military spending is greedy, ignorant, or advocating the economic sabotage of the United States. Since most Americans are ignorant of economic realities, this chart of discretionary spending explains why military spending must be slashed unless taxes are dramatically raised. The other category of federal spending is mandatory spending, money that is spent in compliance with existing laws that govern the particular program or function, like: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Federal Retirement, and interest payments on the national debt. The "National Defense" category accounts for 51% of all discretionary spending, and that excludes the Veterans Administration which was spun out of this category during the Reagan years, and ignores the $87 billion in planned "Terrorism Spending"; which is not counted as spending by Presidential decree.
more... http://www.g2mil.com/Oct2003.htm

[cassiepriam]

47. I have often thought the same thing.....

We are an indulged spoiled frivolous people, we take our democracy and liberties for granted. We can spend years and millions of dollars exploring Clinton's sex life. Love watching nutty so called reality shows and celebrity murder trials. Time for a real reality sandwich to hit us. Only financial hardship, war, and severe loss will ground us. Sad to say.

[Gloria]

29. OFF TOPIC, but I just have to laugh about the fact that many moons

ago, I was practically crucifed for trying to start a place for astrology, which ultimately became the Meeting Room....

Remember?


As for this post election stuff.....I feel totally "released" now...
Some things just have to play out. I'm standing aside and watching as Bushco builds it's "pie" higher and higher...until it collapses under it's own weight. I just hope it doesn't collapse on US!

[Nancy Waterman]

30. I just wanted to post this article

The ending brought tears to my eyes and a ray of hope.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1353696,00.html

[saracat]

32. Thank you Nancy. I cried too! Sniff and a whisper of a smile!

[loudsue]

31. I remember that, Gloria....but it just goes to show ya...you can't keep a

good idea down!!

In an age when knuckle-draggers are running the government, I'm glad to say that DU still believes in evolution!!

I love our new home!!

:kick::kick:

[Gloria]

33. I feel vindicated that TPTB saw "the light"....astrology is, at the

the very least, a comfort. It's a great tool for "meditation" for some of us who use it that way...more private than public.

Lord knows, we need comfort now....

[Nancy Waterman]

34. November 20 prediction

Today there is a Mercury/Pluto conjunction semisquare Mars and in opposition to US Mars, almost exact now. This intensifies violence in Iraq and partisan warfare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/20/international/middleeast/20cnd-iraq.html?hp&ex=1101013200&en=406b209378835c9e&ei=5094&partner=homepage
Violence surges in Iraq

Kerry calls for resistance against Bush
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63697-2004Nov19.html

Go Kerry!!

[saracat]

36. Our Kerry letter went MSM with the WP? Hmmm.

Could that be part of a plan? Don't contact the media and let them pick it up themselves? If so, very interesting. They wouldn't have given this coverage otherwise!:)

[cliss]

37. So this is where everybody went!

Nice place....beautiful decor, indigo.....peaceful, too. I'd say we deserve it by now, after what we've been through.

I find ironic that if Bush is really the "punishment" sent to teach all those ignoramuses in the US a serious lesson, why are we the only ones who are suffering? Everybody else seems to be OK about it, my boss certainly is. Just a thought...

Since we now have our own venue, I'd like to share something that has gradually dawned on me. I've been thinking about the "strength and power" of Bush. Now, we've all read the funny threads where someone has posted a recent photo of Bush, looking drunk, or seriously impaired by drugs.

He just looks like hell. We laugh. Or, we read some ridiculous quote that he has Once Again Butchered. Once, I looked up some Internet sites which have collected his Quips, Quotes & Gaffes. They are numerous, I can tell you.

It's been fun to think of him as a moron. Now, I'm fast-forwarding to the war in Iraq, with people dying all around. Or schools hurting because of funding cuts. Or 45 million people with no health insurance. The fun stops.

I've thought of him as a clown, and at the same time, I've watched him bulldoze over our Constitution, rape and pillage our country like no one has before him. He's pushed his agendas through Congress & The Senate and has gotten everything he's asked for, and more.

He's no weakling, in spite of his untreated alcoholism and drug abuse and obviously deranged thinking. How can someone so disadvantaged accomplish so much? What on earth is going on here? The man has a box on his back. It can be maddening, if you think about it too long.
He's a complete enigma. I've NEVER in all my days seen anyone like this. An idiot, and a cunning criminal, all at the same time.

And then there's the rest of the world...

The world stood up against Bush and his plans. Millions of people mobilized themselves. Demonstration after demonstration, all to no avail. Millions of letters, emails were written. Money was raised, people prayed and meditated for peace.

Still unable to stop the war machinery. My faith in a Higher Being was seriously jeopardized. A mentally ill man against the world, and the man wins. Surely an entire world should be enough, I thought.

After much reflection, I've come to the conclusion that Bush arrived as the Hindu God Shiva, the Destroyer. He's come as our nemesis, the Final Blow because the US misused its awesome power. Now we're all going to go down together. The whole thing saddens me because some of us see everything clearly.

Well, then so be it. Let the lessons be learned, because they are not MY lessons.

[NMDemDist2]

38. yup here we are...

:hi:

dunno if * is the destoyer or just the puppet in a master's hands

[Nancy Waterman]

39. This is what I was talking about in my latest article, cliss.

He's come as our nemesis, the Final Blow because the US misused its awesome power.

We refused to read the handwriting on the wall, so we have to learn the hard way.

I find that I can't be angry anymore. And I can't laugh any more at his stupidity. I can't be outraged at another horrific plan of the Bush administration. I held onto my anger for four years, keeping it stoked so I could wield it. But after he won this election, it all seems pointless. I am hoping this maliase is an interlude, and I will get back to my predictions. But it is all different now. From the last election on, it was so clear to me that Bush would be having a very difficult time around now, so difficult that he could not be the winner. This has animated all of my work. I don't have the same clear (albeit wrong) view of what lies ahead. So I remain for the moment in this interlude.

I am hoping to work on my Timeline for the next term in the coming week. Maybe that will propel me forward. I am also thinking of fixing myself a flower remedy for the first time in quite a while.

[cliss]

41. Nancy, I scrolled up and read the article.

Thanks! Yes, it looks like we're on the same track. A mystery wrapped in an enigma.

This HAS to be karmic. The man has has triumphed over all his obstacles. Imagine what that would do to your ego -- taking on the world and winning.

Shoot, I can't even cross the street without getting a ticket for jay walking, and I'm 1,000,000 times more ethical than Bush. So there has to be some kind of machinery at work here, propelling this man forward.

One of the most poignant posts I read in the DU, about 2 years ago; the person who posted mentioned that she was standing out on the street. She saw Bush's limousine drive right past. "I felt a great evil coming from him as his car went past me".

I've always remembered that post. I believe Bush is the servant of the Dark Forces.

[loudsue]

57. That quote: our own KoKo01 said the same thing to me over dinner....

Some of us N.C. DUers got together for dinner before the John Edwards rally in Raleigh -- four days before the election. Over dinner, KoKo01 was telling us this same thing:

She saw bush's car drive right by her in Raleigh, where she was with a protest group that managed to get on the street where bush's car was passing. She said she could see him clearly in the back seat of his limo. She said he looked in her direction and, for a quick moment, their eyes met. She told about the "great evil" that she saw in his eyes. She said she had never felt the presence such evil.

As she spoke, all of us just sat, mesmerized...you could see through HER eyes the horrible sight she had beheld.

KoKo01 is naturally a very jovial and animated gal, and is involved with so many interests. But when she told about her "encounter with evil" when she saw bush, she was DEAD serious. I still get chills when I remember her telling of it.

Maybe she'll come on this thread and tell it....she'd do a MUCH better job of describing it than I have!

:kick:

[cliss]

65. amazing, S.

I wonder if that was actually Koko's post that I read? It was about 1 year ago. I'm sure I read it in the Meeting Room. It just haunted me, the way it was written.

I've read many, many inspiring, funny, memorable posts here. That has to be one that stands out. Maybe it was her.

There's another thread in this room (I think it's entitled 'Who else felt a real foreboding when Bush....'); I think there was a similar post of someone who actually stood face to face with Bush.

Whew, talk about scary.

[Me.]

42. I Think He's Having A Harder Time Than We Are Allowed To Know

People booing him wherever he goes, won't address Canadian parliament because they made it clear they will stand with their backs to him, Canada has told our security forces to bag it, they can't come in, look what happened in Chile. The world is slapping his face and saying no. There is concern about his safety. Sorry can't supply links, was reading all over the place and didn't accumulate links.

Saw a long documentary on the history of Broadway on PBS and one of the things that struck me was that in the first decade of this century we will have repeated nearly a century of history. In the 20's corporate takeover and looting of WH and gov,. 30's, depression, 50's very repressive, 60's a hateful, aggressive war on someone who didn't attack us, etc., etc.,etc.

[belle]

43. I was just thinking that too...

We have echoes of the fifties, the sixties, the thirties, the eighties (greed) the seventies (malaise), and the turn of the century (Gilded Age). Not to mention, two friggin' Iraq wars, Bush Jr. for cryin' out loud, and now the election feels like a repeat of the last one...jesus, nostalgia really ain't what it used to be, is it? I mean, I've heard of history repeating itself, but this is getting ridiculous. It's more like "history remix."

[NEOBuckeye]

46. I think so too, Me. The world has had enough of Bush.

Most of the world was hopeful, as we were, that Kerry would win on November 2 and bring the U.S. back within the realm of sanity. But now that Bush has got another four years, many nations will do everything in their power to ensure that he will have as miserable a time dealing with them as possible. But even before the election, many nations had already put plans into motion to drop the Dollar and switch to the Euro as their reserve currency. Now, perhaps primarily as a means to check Bush and the U.S., those plans are accelerating, and we're heading for a major economic crisis.

Take a look at what Paul Krugman has to say. A perfect storm is headed our way.

[yellowdawgdem]

44. uh oh, time for the flower remedy

I wish I could be a fly on the wall to see what sort of leaves and stuff go into that flower remedy. It must be really something, Nancy, to take one's mind off 4 more years of shrubbie.

[Nancy Waterman]

49. yellowdawg - I was thinking of

Wild Rose and Gorse.

The Bach remedy Wild Rose (or California Wild Rose by the Flower Essence society) is for sort of giving up and feeling dead inside. It is a different kind of depression than being actively upset or crying, etc.

Gorse is for hopelessness.

A few drops of each a couple of times over a few days might be enough to shift the mood.

[yellowdawgdem]

55. Nancy-hope they are helping!

Well, gorse just sounds like it would counteract hopelessness doesn't it? Sure, that kind of depression isn't so much crying or upset, but I bet there is some fear in it. Could be situational, as so many of us are feeling similarly. I haven't heard of either of those essences, so it's good to know. thanks for sharing them, and I hope they do the trick!;)

[cassiepriam]

53. Nancy: This post of yours struck some cords....

You were right, * is having a great deal of difficulty and he did not win the election. Media propaganda to the contrary. But we missed something I think. Our view of the future was based on the belief that we live in a democracy with certain rules. And that most civilized people operate by some minimal standards.

Unfortunately a paradigm shift has occurred and everything has changed. After the election, I too could no longer focus anger at *. I do not think it is a malaise. It is a regrouping, a rethinking. An attempt to understand what is happening, how and what has shifted. It is much more than Bush. He is no longer the major problem. Too many others are actively working to bring about a radical change in this country for the worse. The anger at * is now pointless. He is merely a symptom of something very wrong at work here. And the world we thought existed is gone.

I think we should view the malaise as the place to be for now. It is the letting go of old feelings and views and seeing the reality more clearly. I think it is a time for looking inward, not outward, and focusing on protecting self and family. And rethinking political strategies. Election reform, media reform, all of that no longer seems correct. I feel like an Indian guide who senses something in the air but cannot quite figure it out at this point in time. Time to sit tight for a bit. Just my .02.

[belle]

62. I think that last paragraph hits it on the head, hard.

Time to turn inward and regroup.

And, winter is coming. The dreamtime. Time to start dreaming some new dreams, so that we can make our waking life--when we're ready for it--more effective.

[JPace]

54. "I can't be angry anymore"

Sensitive, wise and human you are seeking balance. Recognizing at the core all aspects of yourself must be honored, supported, and carefully integrated you are instinctively rebalancing your emotions for the difficult and unexpected four year journey ahead. The spiritual journey demands that we take worldly events and use them for personal, intimate soul growth that has nothing to do with our earthly life. This is such a time for those of us who sense a greater meaning to the tragic victory of these governmental thieves who are in truth anti democracy.

I dreamed, I hoped, I worked and gave and struggled and fought. I thought I knew the truth and the way and I was oh, so very right....how could all that come to this bitter loss? It is internal now and the trip inward and alone can be even more important than the one we just finished together.

I salute your sacred journey inward Nancy, and look forward to your return.....

[robertarctor]

40. Mystified me, too. But then ...

He's no weakling, in spite of his untreated alcoholism and drug abuse and obviously deranged thinking. How can someone so disadvantaged accomplish so much? What on earth is going on here? The man has a box on his back. It can be maddening, if you think about it too long.
He's a complete enigma. I've NEVER in all my days seen anyone like this. An idiot, and a cunning criminal, all at the same time.

Yep. But when you're dealing with the literal Antichrist, all bets are off.

There's really no other way to explain the success of Bush/Rove, except the one St. John gave us from the Isle of Patmos.

[loudsue]

45. It said the anti-Christ would come "bringing Peace" and the whole world

would fall down and worship him, so beautiful was he.

Nope. He isn't the anti-Christ. Just another Hitler wrapped in red/white/blue.

:kick:

[cassiepriam]

48. Bush is just the front man?

Bush does not have the brains to pull this off. He is being manipulated, but is not smart enough to realize it. He also has tremendous ego and can be manipulated that way as well.

[Nancy Waterman]

51. He is defintely manipulated by his ego

They just keep feeding his illusion that he is doing God's work, and then they start their wars and pillage the planet.

He does claim to be bringing "peace", but I wills settle for calling him just another Hitler. That fits too. But the striking thing is the utter blindness of people who see him as so moral. Today's Maureen Dowd column made me ill in this regard. She posted a letter from her "crimson" brother.

[cassiepriam]

52. yes

Arrogance and ignorance is a very dangerous combination
especially when backed by another person who is ruthless.
* would be very easily manipulated via his ego and drugs/
alcohol. I am sure he is drinking again.
I think that the most evil person in this scenario
is Rove. The power behind the throne. Rove may also be drinking
heavily/or have some medical condition.

[Nancy Waterman]

50. Hi Robert!

I have been thinking the same thing. The Antichrist is the only explanation. If I remember the stories about the Evil One, he is charming and attractive to many, and hence gets so much power. I find it just incredible that bush can be so destructive - lying, cheating, stealing, causing unnecessary wars - and yet people think he is a paragon of morality. This is what makes me think of the AC.

[Nancy Waterman]

56. One astrological thing we clearly missed

was the Fall Ingress (when the sun goes into Cardinal Libra) before the election (9/22/04 at 12;31 PM EDT in DC). I don't often use these for prediction and didn't pay a lot of attention when people were discussing this chart (don't know if it was here or on Astroworld). I remember thinking how tight the Jupiter Sun conjunction was with Mars also not far, and thinking that the Sun in these charts should mean the president. But others saw it differently, and I was, at the time, sure Bush couldn't win with the huge Saturn influence on his and the Inaugural charts. But in retrospect, I wonder if that Sun/Jupiter /Mars conjunction wasn't indicative of a big win and a very strong full steam ahead for Bush.

I took a quick peak at some other pre-election ingress charts and see no pattern really. But this chart was so striking, perhaps it should have been in the hopper.

The other aspect I overlooked was the tertiary progressed Inaugural Sun that was exactly conjunct natal Venus duirng the month following the election. Again, I didn't see that as a hugely significant aspect, but in retrospect it may have been.

[loudsue]

58. "during the month following the election"....THEN Mercury Rx....

From your quote above:

"The other aspect I overlooked was the tertiary progressed Inaugural Sun that was exactly conjunct natal Venus duirng the month following the election."

So, that would take us, roughly, to December 2nd +/-.

Nancy, I've been thinking about the certification of the votes: it's supposed to come right in the middle of the Mercury Rx...and it is a "certification", or "contract sealing" of sorts.

I don't remember right now exactly which day it is that the certifications are all supposed to be in, but it is sometime between the 12th and the 15th of Dec., IIRC. (Sorry...it's 2:30 a.m., and I'm simply too lazy to go look it up.)

However!!: Between those dates, Mercury is between the 15th and 12th degree of Sagittarius, respectively. Are those degrees significant either in the bush natal, or the inauguration charts?

In his progressed chart, a 14 deg. of Sag Mercury Rx. falls on his Part of Fortune. In the Inaugural Chart, a 14 deg. of Sag Mercury Rx. falls on Pluto in the 8th house.

OK...I'm rambling here while the little wheels in my brain turn: What I'm wondering (new student of mundane astrology that I am), is.. could the certification be "reversed" when Mercury turns direct? Does Mercury do the same types of things in a mundane chart that it does in people's personal lives? Or does the magnitude of the sample pool in mundane astrology make for a less predictable result of this sort?

And...am I just wishing?? :party: Knowing that there are some serious, but VERY low key, investigations about the election going on around the country? Or...would it just mean that there is a lot of confusion surrounding the certification process?

:kick::kick:

[Nancy Waterman]

59. If you want to be completely freaked out

consider this. the date is 12/13 and there is a Sun Pluto conjunction at 22 Sag just past the exact Bush South Node. Mercury is retro at 13 Sag, exactly conjunct the Mercury/Pluto conjunction on the day of the Coup in December 2000 on the US Ascendant. The events of that day will somehow reawaken the Coup events of 12/12/00.

Sun Pluto can be seen as being overpowered by a more powerful force, a huge power struggle, etc.

There is also a progressed US Moon square to natal US Saturn from mid December to mid January. I expect rather depressing resultsfrom this and no miracles.

However, after the naplam story out this AM, I am ready for massive demonstrations for impeaching Bush/Rumsfled/Gonzales for war crimes (torture and chem weapons) and for lying us into an unnecessary and illegal war. I think it could get close to a million people in both DC and San Francisco and supportive demonstrations throughout the world. We could never get impeachment through the Delay controlled Congress, but we sure could make them uncomfortable and work on being sure the napalm story gets out, then bring back the Abu Ghraib story for which no one has yet been fired, only promoted.

[loudsue]

60. Mercury Rx conj. Coup Mercury/Pluto..... the MEDIA???

Doesn't Mercury represent the media? Maybe this will be when some people in the media finally start reporting the investigations we've been doing, and raising questions. However, with the coup Pluto involved, I wonder if they're (the media) will still be trying to keep all of the real facts in the situation hidden (Pluto/secretive). If the Dems come out fighting at that time (finally!?), and the media tries to keep it down, all those gazillions of people that waited in line for 9 hours, and all others that worked their butts off, might very well explode.

Sometimes Mercury Rx is our friend.

Even if it does not involve the election being overturned, it would still let some of the hot air out of bush's "man date" balloon. I can see it now: "Well, just because they've proved fraud and the numbers for Kerry are much better, that doesn't mean bush should step down".

Now THAT, inside myself, would definitely feel like a Moon sq. Saturn moment.

As for the napalm story, did you see the Truthout article that a German court is going to hear war crime charges against Rumsfeld? It's about time!!

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/120104X.shtml
:kick::kick:

[Nancy Waterman]

61. I saw that about Rummsfeld

I think it is a start. If this napalm story swoops around the globe, we will hear cries of war crimes regarding Bush and Rummy from a lot of places. I would like to see it impossible for bush to travel anywhere for risk of being arrested. Rummy, Condy and now Gonzales as well.

I have long felt that the bushies were really desperate not to let Kerry in because he would have investigated them, which they did not want to risk no matter what.

[belle]

63. Ridge just quit, too

[Nancy Waterman]

64. I am still really struggling to get a feel for this next administration

The last Clinton Inaugural chart and the first Bush one were easy.

Clinton: Sun/Jupiter/ Neptune conjunct in the 10th in the Inaugural. Transiting Neptune hit the Sun and Monicagate and impeachment hit Clinton. Lots of prosperity associated with Clinton (Jupiter Sun) and deception and obfuscation and scandal (Neptune).

Bush: Mercury/Uranus square Mars and square Saturn, the last two across the horizon. Radical, unpredictable, aggressive and lots of war.

This time around the chart seems kind of blah, with Saturn vaguely hitting everything but not really tightly. There is a Mars Pluto conjunction but it has no strong hard aspects, only a very wide opposition to the Moon. I don't think this term will be very dramatic, more sluggish and with perhaps some gains with our allies (Mercury Venus conjunct in the 9th.) The two most interesting transits for the adminisitration will be Uranus moving to an exact square with the Moon in 2005 and Uranus moving to an opposition with Mars in 2007.

I think after a few months of living with it, it will be come a lot clearer.

[belle]

66. fwiw, the tarot spreads people have been reading suggest similar...

feelings of "blah." Stagnation, confusion, weakness and lack of focus.

Of course, that's more or less how things feel right *now.* At least, to me. Apparently to at least a few other people here. Perhaps * & co are feeling rather at sea as well. They certainly don't seem to have any real plan, other than continuing to pour all our money and young lives down the drain of Iraq and further dismantle the tattered remains of the New Deal.

[splat]

67. Nancy, any chance the Saturn is a delayed inauguration?

The Kerry-Edwards campaign joined the Ohio recount suit with the other candidates. Delaware County objected to the recount so Kerry's lawyer "intervened tonight.as explained in this thread as

It means a restraining order was put on the Glibs in an effort to block the recount and the K/E team in interevning (jumping in) to come to the defense of the Glibs.Apparently K/E feel the recount should go forward and are adding their weight to the request.Basically they are defending the Glib effort.

At the Green Party site, they're inviting the Bush-Cheney campaign to join the effort, too! LOL

There's a short Washington Post story, Kerry Team Seeks to Join Fight To Get Ohio County to Recount.

Is it possible the voting investigations could crack open and spread, the uncovering of fraud knocking everything off schedule?