BOOK READ DISCUSSION: "Matthew, Tell Me About Heaven" - Pages 1-80

[I Have A Dream]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss pages 1-80 of the book "Matthew, Tell Me About Heaven" by Suzanne Ward.

The official discussion period for this section is Wednesday, September 27 through Tuesday, October 3. However, discussion on the section may certainly continue in this thread after that date.

The following sections are contained in these pages:

PART I - MATTHEW
Bonds Between Souls
Our Family
Facing Our Loss
Communion with Matthew

PART II - NIRVANA
First Impression
Etheric Bodies
Environment
Nourishment
Heaven on Earth
Origin
Residents
Reunions
Relationships


You can get additional details about this book at the link below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=25965&mesg_id=25965


You can get additional details about the reading schedule at the link below:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=26497&mesg_id=26497

[yellowdawgdem]

1. This was a really good read

and I found more in it than I'd expected. The first chapter(s) seemed mostly to give background information and details about how Matthew died, etc. Showing the difficulties his family had in dealing with his death. I've been reading the Matthew messages for at least a year, and it has often struck me as a kind of blog. A discarnate blog. So I was really interested in the process that enabled them to communicate. I am wondering what impressions other people had about the book.

[LaurenG]

2. I thought it went along nicely with other published information

about life after death, across the board. Other writers have written about very similar experiences and described conditions very close to Matthew's description. Even some of the old esoteric works like Ancient Wisdom described very similar accounts.

I am grateful for the writer, Suzanne Ward, my heart just broke for her after Matthews death. What a great gift she (they) was (were) able to give to all of us from such a tragedy.

[cassiepriam]

3. Yes it does coincide with much of the other material I have

read about the spirit world.

I thought it was interesting that the intense family grief kept
Matthew from moving forward in the afterlife, I have heard of that
happening before.

[cassiepriam]

4. Objective feedback

I think a legitimate complaint someone posted after the last book
read was that we did not do enough critical thinking about the material
and pose possible concerns about the information.

Toward that end I thought I would post a comment or two. BTW I like the Matthew books, have three of them, am now reading the second one.

It is a fairly common occurrence for mothers who have lost children to claim that they have supernatural contact with the deceased child in some way. Some in the psychological community might claim that we are seeing a psychotic reactive depression of some sort. A way for the mothers to comfort themselves against the worst pain in the world, a mother losing a child.

Interestingly enough, surveys of American adults reveal that most people claim to have had a some sort of contact with a deceased family member. Are all of these folks psychotic? Of course not. Perhaps it is a natural human tendency to manufacture self soothing phenomena.

As I read the Matthew material I kept this in mind. But her work seems to go far beyond some self soothing material. Certainly very elaborate and complex. But then again she is a very bright woman and capable of writing it all. I suppose she could have read all the new age material out there and synthesized it all and repackaged it in the form of Matthew.

Others might argue that women who have lost children are forced to use their innate psychic talents to communicate with the deceased child. And perhaps it is a way of easing the pain for the mother and allowing the child to move forward spititually. As indicated in the precious posts, intense family grieving can cause the child to stay stuck. So maybe the spirit world allows more communication to help the mothers let go?

Actually I have a friend who experienced this. Lost a young adult child and then developed psychic communication with him. As usual I have to test everything out and asked her to perform some mini experiments for me. For example one of the things I asked was for the discarnate son to describe some specific objects in my home that my friend had never seen. He did it perfectly. Blew me away. I also did some other things and his hits were perfect. My friend was skeptical as well about what was happening to her, but then I showed her pictures of the objects he had described perfectly. She started to take what was happening to her much more seriously and so did I!

BTW He now pops into the conversation at any time like someone coming in for a nice chat and adds his two cents. I keep telling him that certainly he has better things to do than gossip with the girls and maybe he needs to get back to his spiritual classes or whatever he is supposed to be doing up there :)

[LaurenG]

5. I'm glad to have this perspective here

Due to the upsurge in so many books about spirituality and topics like this it is important to read with discernment. You have a fabulous mind and I admire your gifts in dissecting this while adding personal experience.

I believe that we (those of us attracted to the spiritual) are forging new ground in the neural pathways of humanity so having an objective look at this type of information is very important.

I realize no scientist would consider this information valid YET, but I think we'll see a turn around in the scientific information to become available in our lifetime.

[cassiepriam]

6. A good point.

I think it is important to try to evaluate material either on an intuitive level or rational one. I tend to do it both ways, but that is how I am wired. And with so much Neptune in my natal chart I can easily be swept away in a very deceptive but blissful wave. So I try to not get too carried away :)

I hope you are right about science coming around in our life time. But they will have to come a long way before the research in this field is going to be of any value. It is so complex and so many variables to consider. And western science does not have the mind set to study issues in a fair way.

For example if you recall the prayer research that was discussed here some time back. Subjects were prayed for and the outcome assessed. The criterion for success was if the patient got well or made improvement. If the patient got worse or died then that was a negative outcome.

But from a karmic standpoint we know that is not true. If someone is suffering here on Earth physically then the guides may take the person to prevent too much auric damage. Also time of death has been decided most times in the pre birth plan, so prayer may have little impact. Prayer can only help someone within their particular karmic limits.

And someone getting worse may be a pay off for karmic debt incurred in the past, and actually may move them into a state of grace which would be a very good thing.


The problem is that we do not know each person's karmic plan and what they are doing from a spiritual standpoint. So we cannot judge what is a success or failure.

I think some of this will be covered in the Matthew readings, but it will become more clear that western 2006 science may not be able to tackle the issues.

[latebloomer]

13. How do you know your friend was not reading YOUR mind?

That is usually the issue I have when I hear about psychics or mediums who claim they communicate with the dead. When I hear things like "Aunt Margaret is here with him-- she is reminding you about the silver necklace" I don't feel that's proof of life after death, though it may well be proof of ESP. I feel the psychic may just be picking up info from the person she is giving the reading to. I'm not saying s/he is trying to pull a scam-- she may not know where the info is coming from.

In your case, your friend may have psychic powers and may be unconsciously picking up thoughts in your head about the objects in your house.

On the other hand, if the psychic were to give information that the subject DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT-- eg., some info about Aunt Margaret that can later be confirmed somehow-- that would be much more convincing. Unfortunately, I rarely hear about that.

Don't get me wrong-- I would LOVE to know for sure that life after death exists. But most of the examples I hear of, to me only constitute proof of ESP, which I already believe in.

[Proud_Lefty]

14. I've had proof it wasn't ESP

I had a session with a fellow DU'er here. She got in touch with my mother for me and my father wanted to join. She told me several things that my father told her that I had never heard of before. I wrote to my aunt in Sweden about these various things and she confirmed some and completed the story on others. There was no possibility that she read my mind on any of that stuff.

[latebloomer]

15. Aha!

Now THAT'S the kind of story that impresses me!

[LaurenG]

17. Many people get information from discarnate beings that is spot on

My father told my mother, after his death (through someone else) where to find a watch that was lost after a move. No one knew where it was and had searched everywhere. It was exactly where he told her to look.

[latebloomer]

18. Thank you for the example

I appreciate all evidence that physical death is not the end.

[yellowdawgdem]

31. That's great

and illustrates that not everyone is in denial about the reality of such communications. Was the person who delivered the message a psychic, or a relative? That is a concrete, easy to prove message for sure.

[cassiepriam]

19. Exactly, I thought the same thing. What is the source of the info?

(edited because the lines of my text never line up and it drives me crazy.)

I have a number of psychic friends and I always question exactly the same thing.

My background is science and I design the experiments both ways. My friends do not take offense, and are happy to oblige me. The friend I am discussing was eager to do the experiments since she has never had any psychic abilities that she was aware of and she is feeling quite crazy. She was thinking maybe she was imagining all of it, which of course is possible.

In this case I asked my friend to have her son identify some objects in my home that my friend had never seen. She told me she was getting a picture of some objects which she described in specific clear detail as to shape, color and location. She was correct exactly. Could not have been by chance. The objects described are not common and could not have been determined by guessing.

And yes she could have been picking up my thoughts. I agree totally. So we know that she is perhaps psychic but what is the source of the information? Is she merely picking up my thoughts or is it from another source?

I then asked my friend to give me some information about something in my life of which I had no knowledge (future events). And then I asked her to give me some information about events which she does not know about in her life, but I happen to know. On both scores she gave info that was accurate.

I confess too that while all this was going on I had a dream about the deceased son, containing some very sensitive personal information about him that I had not known about. The info was verified by my friend. I was also given info that she did not know about, she checked it out, and told me that this info was true.

To go further, I asked another psychic friend (friend #2) who knows nothing about friend #1 to give me some info that I did not know and that my friend did not know pertaining to the deceased son. The info given to me turned out to be accurate after we checked it out.

So at this point I am leaning towards the fact that friend #1 is in communication with her deceased son.

But as always I am evaluating every thing and could change my mind if that data begins to change. And perhaps I am biased in some way as I have become part of the experiment and may not be as objective as necessary.

As I keep saying my deal is that I want to know the truth. Whatever that truth is. I question every thing all the time and play devil's advocate. Half of me believes all of this to my core. The other half is a total skeptic and thinks it is crazy. Sorry, that is how I am wired.

[yellowdawgdem]

7. Yes, I appreciate the background

of their communications.
I agree that it must've been super- difficult for the whole family, esp. Suzanne, to lose her son. And I guess that these pre-birth agreements can be hardball decisions. It was interesting that Suzanne just had no awareness of having made that decision, and took it really hard. I think that her (their) genuine grief, as well as the deep connection between mother and son, lowered my skepticism somewhat. Also the material, while overlapping other channelled messages/books, had some unique information not found elsewhere. Certainly, Suzanne could've drawn that information partly from her own higher self, or from information she's accumulated on earth. But there is a genuine bond and conversation between them. Anyway, I do not think that skepticism is always such a great thing. Sometimes it is okay to just accept the premise, and move on.
Yes, the overlap with other, similar information was helpful. Actually,I have a bit more difficulty accepting the Kryon channellings than I do the Matthew, so a bit of overlap definitely strengthened the case. Matthew says a little more about his own pain, and his adjustment process than I've heard b4. To me, it is helpful to know that, for instance, death isn't something that you just walk away from by going out of body. That it can be painful, and require time to heal, as happened to Matthew. He also shows a dark side to Nirvana, and the sense that people have character flaws, and are continually studying, and growing over there, as well here.

[cassiepriam]

8. Yes, Heaven not static and perfect

That was an important point. That heaven is really just another stage
of the soul growth process. Souls are still evolving, learning and growing
there. And have struggles and flaws.

I agree that skepticism is not always a great thing. Believe me I wish I didn't have it. But I think that I may have gone off the deep end in some past lives and now must balance it with some grounding and connection to reality! But I agree that one must to some degree suspend disbelief and accept the basic premise to get the most out of the book.

And I agree that given the amount of pain I hardly think that Ward would consciously exploit her son's death to her advantage by manufacturing the contents of this book. I know that the Repugs have accused Cindy S. of the doing that. But of course that is not true, Cindy is fighting the good fight in honor of her son. To honor his memory and to ensure that his death was not in vain.

[yellowdawgdem]

16. I guess we are all skeptics

at one level or another. Interesting that you can connect with being skeptical as a balancing factor. skepticism, well for me anyway, isn't thinking something like, 'I bet Suzanne would exploit her son's death in some way.' It is more like, where does she come up with this information? What if some of it is fabricated or embellished on an unconscious level? How can I trust that the source is pure, and how can I know which parts are accurate and which are not? Because rarely is everything accurate in delicate communications like this one. So, and Matthew, somewhere during the first chapters, stated that the reason all of the psychics told Suzanne he'd not suffered any pain b4 dying is that this is what he told them. Iow, the psychics got their information from him, yet he didn't want his mother to have the truth at that point. Felt she probably couldn't handle that.
My mind tends to jump to the assumption that possibly some additional information Matthew gives us could be protective, or highly simplified. So in this way, I find it difficult to completely accept the material- though I mostly do.
Btw, I also wanted to thank you for the book suggestion. That sounds really interesting to me, and I will plan on reading it soon.

[cassiepriam]

20. For me it is about balance.

I have been told that in some past lives that I went off on bad spiritual tangents and did not stay grounded. Also in some lives I was too much in my head and did not balance it with spirituality.

In this life I am to balance rationality and spirituality. And also I have been a mystic who went off on the mountaintop to prayer and meditate. I was very gifted but did not use my gifts to help others. In this life some of my major karmic goals, as indicated by the three yods in my natal chart, are to do a practical spirituality, to be of use to people in a practical and down to earth way. I am to help others be the best they can be. And I must be very careful to maintain my faith but not to be swept away by false gods and deceptive gurus. So I always feel like I am walking a careful line.
With my faith I have to use critical thinking.

I am very appreciative of the everyone on this list for tolerating my right and left brain activity and the way I am wired, and my need for balance.

[I Have A Dream]

21. In reference to the following....

"I am to help others be the best they can be." and "...to be of use to people in a practical and down to earth way".

You certainly have done these things for me. Thank you for everything that you give to this group both here in the posts and behind the scene, cassie. Knowing you has truly been a gift from the Universe to me.

:hug:

[cassiepriam]

23. Thank you, but I never feel I have done enough, it is only a drop

in the bucket!

[I Have A Dream]

25. Wow, you have really, really high expectations of yourself.

I strongly suggest that you take a few minutes and really, really think about everything that you do for others. I also ask that the Universe open your eyes to the real impact that you've had on other people's lives.

Hearing you say this makes me want to cry because I see you so very differently. :(

[cassiepriam]

30. Do not feel bad for me Dream. I am a complicated person.

On a rational level I am aware that I have been blessed with an ability to help people on a profound level, and I have been helping people for many years. I seem to have a knack for getting to the critical parts of a problem and steering people in the right direction.

I know that I have intervened in ways that have saved lives, marriages, jobs, etc. And that makes me happy. My eyes ARE open to what I have accomplished. But I also believe that it is not me doing it, but a higher power. I cannot take the credit. Any gifts I have are to be used to help others, it is a sin not to do so.

But emotionally it just doesn't feel like I have done enough. I know it does not make sense, but nonetheless that is my feeling. I always wish I could have done more. I have a serve or suffer natal chart what can I say!

It drives my husband crazy, I will be sick or having my own problems and I will stop everything to help someone else. Even when I am ill, and sitting in the doctor's office, if one of the nurses starts mentioning her personal problems I have to give her ideas how to sort it out.

[cassiepriam]

22. Yes you raise excellent points.

What is the source of her information? And could there be some
distortion due the delicate and difficult nature of the communication.

I think also there is a concern about interference by dark spirits and in fact in one of her later books she admits that this occurred in some of her communications.

I think too that the info she receives is very complex and she in some ways has to act as a translator, that becomes more clean in her later books. And as we know, material is most often lost or distorted in any translation endeavor.

[Proud_Lefty]

9. The part that resonated with me in this section

was that Suzanne Ward was not able to hear or communicate directly with Matthew until she calmed down. I found this extremely significant because that's exactly what I've been going through in my spiritual bootcamp, if you will. I'm working real hard on all different levels of my spiritual growth and have been desperately trying to make a direct connection. I have been told numerous times that my over-eagerness to connect is exactly what is blocking it. I've found calming down and relaxing to be the hardest part of all.

[cassiepriam]

10. Yes, I had marked that sentence as an important one too PL.

I think you mean the comment on page 39 in which Ward states that it had taken so long for Matthew to communicate with her because:

her many years of stress had prevented a smooth energy flow, which is ESSENTIAL (my caps on this word) for the connection.

I agree that stress level can block things and it is important to let go of undo stress and anxiety. Also sometimes I think that we are connected and we just do not realize it. We need to pay more attention to the messages that are sent to us. We may overlook them or dismiss them. The messages can be highly symbolic and take a while to decode and learn what they mean for you.

For example one way it works for sometimes is that I will have a dream or a picture in my head, say of an acquaintance named David, and he will be saying or doing something. I have learned that it doesn't necessarily mean the info is about that person, but somehow someone else named David will be important.

One good idea is to meditate daily and just let images come to you.
And then keep a journal and see if there is any meaning to what you are getting.

A book I just read that I like a lot is called SO YOU WANT TO BE A MEDIUM by Rose Vanden Eynden. It is a real step forward from most of the books out there in that it is not just a show and tell book about her talents, but an actual work book type format with lots of specific suggestions about things to practice and try. Her particular focus is communication with discarnate spirits, but the skills she is teaching are applicable to any area of psychic talent we may wish to develop.

[Proud_Lefty]

11. Great advice, Cassie

You make so many great points. I've been told to keep a journal many times, but I'm always running fast and furious as soon as I get up. I could never find time then to write things down. All of the sudden, though, it hit me that I could write something another time of the day.

We're all probably being given many messages and signals that we just aren't accustomed to seeing. When we start acknowledging those divine messages, our paths can only become better.

I'm going ot order that book. Sounds exactly like what I've been looking for. Thanks.

[cassiepriam]

12. I hope you like the book!

And yes I hit the ground running most mornings and keep going til I drop into bed at night. How in the world can I expect messages to be received and understood if I am not checking my spiritual voice mail so to speak?

[I Have A Dream]

24. Perversion of the entire sexual energy stream is the root cause...

of all that we think of as evil attributes in human nature. Matthew states that there is no crime by our civil, religious or philosophical standards that is not committed from a root cause of sexual energy perversion. (pg 79)

I found this to be really interesting.

He also said that no other aspect of human nature has been so pivotal in alienating a person from God, and that the more corrupt and deviant the sexual energy, the more the people engaging in these activities are distancing themselves from God.

I liked the fact that he stressed that a loving homosexual partnership is NOT a perversion of sexual energy regardless of how it's viewed on Earth.

Any thoughts on all of this? (I'm going to start a separate post on the subject of homosexuality as discussed in this section of the book.)

[suziedemocrat]

28. That IS interesting - sounds true too.

Maybe I should try to get this book. I read the Matthew messages and I can never decide if I believe she is really channeling or just thinks she is. But a lot of what he says does resonate.

I DO like the fact that the overall message is optimistic for the long term. Deep down I think we are heading to a better future (maybe in 50 years). With the advances in solar energy and energy efficient home and product design, maybe we'll eventually end up in a good place.

[I Have A Dream]

29. So far, I'm liking the book, suzie. It's much easier reading than the...

"Journey of Souls" book, although I absolutely adored that book. I find myself constantly comparing the two books, and much of what's said is the same. There are a few differences that I've noticed so far, but I can't remember them. They weren't big things though, if I remember correctly.

(By the way, the book is not very long -- just 205 pages. I would estimate that 5% of it is empty space; it doesn't really start until page 15, and it really ends at page 201.)

[mrgorth]

32. Yeah. My thought is that it worries me.

I don't know if I'm deviant or not. I'd love to know. If I am what do I do to stop it. I think I'm pretty normal for a single man in his 30s...not that that means anything good.:(

[I Have A Dream]

33. I'd say that you're only deviant if you hurt another sentient...

being. Otherwise, I don't think anything is deviant, personally.

:hug:

[mrgorth]

34. Thanks

I haven't gotten to that page yet. Does he/she go into "deviancy"?

[I Have A Dream]

35. He mentions that Satanic worship...

which includes torture and sacrifice of human and animal lives and other brutal sexual activities is sexual energy perversion. He said that murder, rape and incest are examples of gross deviance, and he said that promiscious sexual encounters or obsession with either having sex or rigidly refraining from natural urges are more benign but are still destructive to the psyche.

[mrgorth]

36. Hmmm.

:(

[I Have A Dream]

26. Homosexuality (starts on page 75)

"Homosexuality is an evolutionary stage of the spirit even more than an aspect of the physical makeup, and it is not to be condemned or honored any more than any other physical or spiritual stage of development."

"The immediate past Earth lifetime has another impact on this issue. The people there who most vehemently denounce homosexuality are those whose souls experienced an immediate past lifetime as a personage with that orientation."

From the paragraphs that followed the second quote above, I took it to mean that those people who were homosexuals but either denied it or were severely persecuted because of it would be the people who most vehently denounce homosexuality in their next lives -- they were traumatized and took this trauma with them into their next lives. He said that instead of feeling empathy, they saw revenge opportunities. I didn't feel that someone who was homosexual and was allowed free expression of this aspect of him/herself would denounce homosexuality in his/her next life.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this or any of the other parts of the discussion about homosexuality?

[I Have A Dream]

27. Male and female energy (starting on pg 78)

I found it interesting that Matthew stated that, in reference to balance, the balance of male and female energies is probably the most desirable because sexual energy is one of the most essential aspects of the human psyche, and that this once existed on Earth but was corrupted.

He also stated "In relationships wherein one partner has only male energy traits and the other has only female energy traits, the female energy partner cannot withstand the inbalance lifelong or the life will not be long." This surprised me, and I don't see that in the world. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

He stated "Male energy is harsh, often productive by ruthless means, always needing to prove a point or achieve success in a venture. Female energy is gentle, yet with greater, quiet strength as its foundation. Interconnectedness, which is the ultimate in conscious achievement, is female energy."

Personally, my early life was definitely ruled by male energy. I made a conscious decision 15 years or so ago to try to bring more female energy into my life and my dealings with the world. Now my goal is to try to get a good balance between the two.

[I Have A Dream]

37. On page 63, in the section "Origin", he discussed God and Creator...

Matthew states that "God" and "Creator" are not the same. He said "...the ultimate power of the cosmos -- the omnipotent, omniscient essence, the Totality, I AM, or any of the other designations you have for God -- actually is Creator."

He also said the following:

"At the time of the "Big Bang", a reference sometimes given to that first dividing of Creator, the highest realm of angels -- the archangels -- was created. That's where the Christed energy resides. That division was not a diminishing of Creator's essence, but a proportionate sharing of powers even as the whole remained. The archangels were not of substance, only of pure love expressed as light.

"Eons later, in conjunction with Creator, the archangels created the next level of angels, who also were only light and also shared proportionately Creator's powers. In the third step of creation, the angelics in conjunction with Creator made life form potentials, meaning that manifestations now could be discarnate or of substance. They created the universes -- which combined are the cosmos -- with all of their celestial bodies and the gods who went forth to rule and co-create all life within the universes. One of these gods became ruler of our universe, and many Earth religions call him God. God has proportionately all the powers of the Creator, and in this universe, He rules with those qualities you rightfully attribute to Him. And even though He is referred to as "Father", and with masculine pronouns, God is total love and light, which has no gender."

This is very similar to what the Ascended Masters teach, although they also mention a separate group called elementals, which Matthew doesn't discuss.