I have something to say about 9-11.

[Cleita]

I'm watching the CBS movie done by the French brothers about the firemen. I was overcome with the souls of those who died passing from my TV and seeming to fill my living room. They gave me a feeling, message or very strong indication that to build anything commercial on the site would be a mistake.

There is too much strong energy on the site, not from the dead but from the living who still don't have answers about loved ones who died there and honestly most of living Americans who are very traumatized by the incident. The spirits seem to be telling me that because of these bad vibes that will take decades or even generations to dissipate those negative energies and that doing anything commercial there will result in accidents, setbacks and more tragedies.

Unfortunately, I voiced this opinion on GD in one of the threads. My need to pass this information to the living overcame my usual caution about talking about things spiritual outside of this forum. So I thought I would bring this here to you my friends. Honestly, I haven't felt anything this strong in a long time.

[NuttyFluffers]

1. i always felt that it needed to be converted to hallowed ground

a strictly commercial building is a touch too crass, and there hasn't been enough healing to warrant this stage yet. i thought a beautiful garden, possibly an arboretum or conservatory, with a skyscraper-sized sculpture of light to signify the vacuum, would be a healing tribute. it needs to be a place where the wounded and grieving, and the generations that follow, can circumnambulate beautiful things to find peace.

what i also thought would be a beautiful addition would be a large building nearby that held rent-controlled rentable space for all the world's religions, sects, nations, etc. that want to give a piece of themselves to share. it was the World Trade Center, and trade being potentially a very healing and communicating word. to have a place where all nations and beliefs can all gather to express positivity and communication -- among the postcards and tourist gifts -- would be a place showing solidarity in the pursuit of understanding one another's humanity. imagine the world's largest and most diverse food court, array of wedding "chapels", linguist center, reading rooms, and mercantile cultural exchanges. sure there'd be fighting and screaming at times, but there'd be serious magic there as well.

but just as rented business space? no. not going to work. the vibes alone will take care of that.

[mother earth]

4. It's absolutely incredible when you mention 9/11 it just evokes

an incredible defensiveness in people. I truly believe that's why many people don't dare question what took place that day. Until we do, we will never move forward. The investigation must be reopened & issues need to be resolved. How can we prevent something from happening again, when we are afraid to demand the facts, afraid to take an indepth look & study what went wrong and why.

I don't believe anything should be rebuilt in any shape or form until we reopen 9/11 & until we can make damn sure it never happens again.

[Cleita]

6. I love your vision of what should be there.

I was particularly aghast that they want to call it Freedom Towers. These neo-cons have no shame and the fact that they would use this tragedy for their propaganda is particularly low.

[bliss_eternal]

2. Funny you bring this up...

I was talking to my husband about this today.

"I wonder if the spirits have settled on those grounds," I said to him just today. "I wonder what the energy there is like considering all the unanswered questions and those traumatized by this,...the firefighters and others that worked to clear it." Not kidding.

[BlueIris]

3. Most survivors I've spoken with have said the same thing. nt

[stellanoir]

5. . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2105700

[MissWaverly]

7. Odd you should say that

I saw the picture of George Bush stepping on that rug at the fire station, and I got the weirdest
feeling it was a very cold dark feeling, like the dark you see at night in the water at the ocean
when there's no moon, a blackness. I think they have rode this thing and exploited it and they
don't care about those who died, that's all playacting. Well, I think something has been stirred
up; call it karma, retribution or whatever, but I think it's coming.

[Cleita]

9. There are places that I believe become sacred ground on

account of profound events that happened on them. I think the WTC is one of them. If it's not treated as sacred ground there will be consequences. I don't believe in curses but there is something close to it. If this place isn't respected as sacred ground the spiritual energy coming from it will cause destructive events to happen. On the other hand respecting the place as a memorial will harness that energy I believe for good.

[tanyev]

10. I wonder the same thing about New Orleans, too.

:cry:

[Cleita]

11. New Orleans without a doubt in those neighborhoods that

all the drowning and deaths occurred. If they don't restore those neighborhoods as they were with the respect for the dead that should be foremost any attempt to put in high priced housing there, I think there will be a lot of bad things that will happen in the future.

[Why Syzygy]

12. You know Louisiana parishes

have above ground burial grounds? And I read something about a famous singer who was buried in one and people were feeling her spirit and she was not happy.

If WTC has not so much as a memorial marker after FIVE years > http://tinyurl.com/g68w9 =
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/11/keith-olbermanns-special-commnet-on-bush-who-has-left-this-hole-in-the-ground-we-have-not-forgotten-mr-president-you-have-may-this-country-forgive-you/

. then do we EVER expect NOLA to have anything? Not with the neocon, money grubbing, selfish bastards.

NOTHING has been done on WTC. No plaque. No banner. Nada.
Listen to Olbermann. It gives righteous indignation a fresh new meaning.

[cassiepriam]

8. Yes.

True for all killing fields?

Sensitives can feel the bad vibes from battlegrounds going back
hundreds of years. And the 9-11 site is more complex. American leaders either were complicit or negligent. So the trauma seems much more intense. From the dead as well as the living.

Also on the physical plane the ground is contaminated isn't it?
Lots of toxic materials.

Not a place I would want to build anything on for many reasons.

[MissWaverly]

13. Thank you, for the heads up

now I know that I won't go there to see Ground Zero, not out of disrespect but out of getting
bummed out, I do think that we should always respect the sacrifice they made and honor their
memory. I do not believe this should be politicized in any way.

[cassiepriam]

14. Sensitives and psychics may have a hard time at the 9/11 site.

Judith Orloff MD, popular author, psychic and a physician described in one of her books visiting Auschwitz, the concentration camp, a few years ago. She had a very difficult time in terms of the entities and negative traumatized energy.

And yes, Bush Co's use of 9/11 is so typical of their socipathic view of the world. Any human suffering is seen only as an opportunity to make money and gain power. Their accrual of bad karma is staggering.

[MissWaverly]

15. I think they should look at the Hiroshima & Nagasaki sites

see how they dealt with it, did they do memorials and if so what kind. It might help put this
in perspective. I really think that maybe a world center would be a good idea, expecially
one that would foster communication and cooperation globally.

[Cleita]

17. I should look this up, but going on memory, they have

a memorial park in Hiroshima to mark the occasion at ground zero. Don't now about Nagasaki. Nothing commercial is built on it, and they have ceremonies every year there to remember. Also, when I visited Alaska, in Anchorage, they have a park that was left as it was in the big earthquake in, I believe, the early sixties. Half of the main street that got destroyed was paved over and they made it into a parking lot.

I asked a local about that and she told me it was too painful to build commercial buildings there. I haven't been there in thirty years, so maybe by this time the developers have moved in but back then there was reverence for the lives lost and the destruction.

[MissWaverly]

18. yes, it would be wonderful if they left it open or put the buildings

underground with space above

[davsand]

20. There was a Civil War Prison in Southern Illinois.

Alton was the location of a prison for Confederate soldiers along with other folks, and it was a brutal place. MANY people died there and the entire town just feels wrong to me when I am anywhere near it. I don't know how to even begin to explain it other than it just feels dark and so heavy to me. I can just FEEL the misery.

Here is a bit of information on the place:

http://www.altonweb.com/history/civilwar/confed/index.html

I have a theory that sometimes places are like a "battery" that they take on an emotional "charge" from the strong feelings that happen there.

Have you have ever walked into a house where there has been strong emotion, sadness and anger for YEARS between people? Ya know how you can just feel it, somehow? THAT is the kind of thing I am talking about here, except Alton is just overwhelming in its scale.

Alton is like that.

Years after our first trip thru there (hubby grew up down in that part of the state) I was watching some TV show about hauntings, and they were talking about specific places in Alton on there. Frankly, I think the entire place is haunted and there is nothing to be done about it unless those souls can be freed or released from that pain. I honestly think that no sensitive will ever feel comfortable in that place.

Ground Zero is a similar sort of place that is charged with so much fear, sadness, and emotion that I suspect it will never be a comfortable place for any sensitive.


Laura

[Why Syzygy]

23. I am sorry about that ..

the whole land is covered with blood, truth be told.

But your post has inspired me to take up a research of this land I love, my new hometown.
When I came here for a state exam, I just felt awed. Subsequent visits confirmed it. I hated to put my car on the road to head back up to North Texas. I feel rejuvenated here. I have questioned. Is the limestone formations? The bodies of water? What about this place just makes me feel a thrill, even as I get in my car to go run mundane errands.

Stephen F. Austin was one of the Texas heroes, which I have long since forgotten since grade school state history class.

But this land was settled and fought and fought again by many peoples.

I wonder why the spirits you feel that abide in that place have never gotten rest. There was much blood shed here, as well. And as you know all over the planet. Maybe there is someone special to you there. Someone calling. I feel the calling here, but it is a good thing. Maybe they are looking for their lost souls. I don't know much about hauntings. I do know when a place haunts me, I want to stay. It is opposite to what you describe. I have found other places repelling. I didn't sense any spirit at all. It was like a dead zone.

I welcome the hand of all who have traveled this land. There are wagon wheel paths worn into stone, so much was this place used for water and refreshment. And deer. It sustained multitudes of peoples. And was highly prized. The battery is highly charged. But in a nurturing, life giving way.

I can't imagine Ground Zero. But I hardly imagine that the great tragedy we witnessed was the first to befall the land there. It is Manhattan Island, after all. Maybe it is time for a historical monument. To honor. To raise. Fear, sadness and emotion give way to reverence. And respect. We won't have that with you-know-who in office. But we can hope for sensitives to come and heal and offer rest. In fact when I met my new soul sister earlier this week, she told me that the Masters were there. They began the healing process immediately.

They must not suffer eternally. If we let them go, perhaps they will go. However, from this current plane, we may need their assistance to bring those to justice. In their spirit.
And so it is.

[Mist]

16. Yes, keep the space open, like a park. Light is healing. nt

[peacebuzzard]

19. I have been to the WTC area and NOLA in a work capacity....

(certainly not as a visitor or tourism....that is another subject so unfavorable)

and Cleita, and others here what you are thinking is so true. The hollowness of both areas is overwhelming. You can feel the other dimension very intensely, with all of the intensity of the depths of sadness. These two places need to be respected and treated with much care.

[MissWaverly]

21. thanks for confirming this

my mother always said that when there was a disaster there was intense energy around that area;
well, this is another thing she was right about. At the time, I had no idea what she was talking
about and being a teenager did not ask.

[jbnow]

22. My mom would say

the same thing...not just about places. She didn't do it on purpose but sometimes when she'd pick up an item she'd pick up vibrations so strongly and describe in detail people, events and conversations connected with it.

Some examples...we were at mu aunts house. She went out to get the mail for them and as she came back in she started describing this guy and the room he was in, what he looked like, what he was wearing...then turned to my cousin and said they were planning to marry.
She was right about all of it. No one had met the guy yet or that it was serious. But he was writing to my cousin vacationing at her parents...my mom was how the family learned about it.

There were times she hated it. She picked up a belt of a guest. (He wasn't in the room but I was). She turned pale and dropped it and said something about "There is no future" and the life cord or something breaking. She was very distressed. Soon she was brushing it off saying it was all bull, she just imagined it. But she sure became resistant to that energy after that, not that she could stop it when it came. The young man was dead within a few months.

Well there are way too many examples. The last I will mention is when she was helping me unpack. She picked up a sweater and went into one of her things...she was overwhelmed, though in a good way. She started describing the conversation from a time I had worn it last, with someone I have a powerful spiritual connection with (which I can find very irritating because it's beyond all sense). In her normal state she didn't like the relationship. In her altered state she just loved it. She started raving about the basis of it, the "divine love" and how beautiful it was. As I would tell her things like "It's not how we really feel, it's just symbolic" she'd forcefully tell me I was wrong, only what is true can leave the vibrational impressions, vibrations can't lie.

Like you I was a teen when most of it went on (not the last example) and didn't ask questions and didn't particularly believe it, though she was never wrong when it just came through her that way. When she sat and tried to do it on purpose it was always very choppy, not too accurate. It came through when she was just doing normal life things and it was always through touch.

I see Lights and again in her normal state she didn't like that. One night I was visiting and she reached toward me and her hand went through a light and she asked what she had just felt, was it a light? She was awed by the feel of it. She wanted to see if she could find them, turned her back to me she would not follow my eyes and tried to find the lights with her hands. She had no problem doing that and was just entranced. She tried to describe them as not exactly beings but alive intelligence of love, peace, joy. She told me she would probably talk down about them again but to completely ignore her, these were wonderful. She was so happy.

There sure is more to life than we know.

[Why Syzygy]

24. That is just awesome.

It is a strange feeling when you know things that others don't. I've had some good and some bad experiences when I expressed things.

But to have a mother that tuned in. What an awsome thing that must have been.

[I Have A Dream]

25. I love the fact that she told you to ignore her if she said something...

bad about the Lights. I wonder why she didn't trust the impressions that she got once they were over.

Your mother sounds wonderful, jbnow. It sounds like a real gift to have grown up in this environment.

[MissWaverly]

26. Yes, we need to focus more on the positive here

too often we are overwhelmed by the negative and forget to focus on the positive. About 4 years
ago, my niece was very ill and is the mother of 3 children. Well, I saw an angel, a real
little angel with long ringlets and a baby kitten. The kitten was so small, it was really just
a ball of fur with a tail. My sister had a child that died at birth. My sister feels that this
little angel that I saw was my niece's baby sister who came back to let us know that things would
be okay. I don't know but I know what I saw.